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| Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses (119835) | |
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| (120223) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Oct 24 13:49:00 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by NABI on Fri Oct 24 10:12:31 2008. Why weren't these problems addressed in the first place?This is the "first place". Only one bus has been built! After the demo period, the bus was examined. The issues were discovered at that time, and NABI needed to work on the various adjustments requested by NJT. If other reports are accurate, the frame issue is due to a NABI supplier. This is not new, for crying out loud. MCI delivered 7501, 7502, and 7503 as demos to the big coach order... the remaining production units actually have different body panels - the whole front roof cap was changed! NABI and Cerberus are not about to throw away $400 million over problems on a demo bus. That's what demos are for. Too many fans don't understand that the Millennium order was NOT canceled because of problems with the few buses that were built (NJT expected that to be resolved)... it was canceled because Millennium couldn't deliver on time as they did not have the money to build them! In order to meet the contract deadline, Millennium would have needed to increase almost instantly from 1 bus per day to 4 - they could not afford the components or the labor to do that. |
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| (120237) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by RTS_Book on Fri Oct 24 15:35:26 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Oct 24 12:49:50 2008. Yeah, but you should look and see who owns NABI these days - and see what other major corporate entities (two come to mind) they own - and see how those two are doing these days...Capitol's a bitch. Just ask Millennium... |
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| (120240) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by JAzumah on Fri Oct 24 16:10:34 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by RTS_Book on Fri Oct 24 15:35:26 2008. LOL. I'll take Chrysler...but it has to be for less than the $11 billion they have in the bank! |
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| (120250) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Oct 24 16:52:46 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by RTS_Book on Fri Oct 24 15:35:26 2008. That is true... |
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| (120267) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by TC40102A#9167 on Fri Oct 24 17:29:33 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Oct 24 13:49:00 2008. You are absolutely right! I would like to say this, it is really looking like these newer buses are becoming more problematic due to so many different specifications for a particular model. When you look at the current buses on the road for NJTransit, there is a natural thing called evolution, from engines, to transmissions, to windows, and doors, roof hatches, tail lamps, you name it and there is a part that has changed. Secondly there are customer requested changes, like the movement of the engine fan/radiator arrangement from left side to top rear like an MCI coach so that you can now standardize both parts and training, while this practice has its pro's the con's can be costly in the long run as you are changing the original design of a product. I truly believe in the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" I think NJTransit should go back to basics and only make minor changes to a product so that it can be proven to last like it should, there are enough issues to deal with in regards to these new buses (Catalytic Converts, Diesel Particulate Filters, Selective Catalytic Reduction devices)and that is just on the engine side, lol.Change - Inevitable Evolution - Necessary Good "Old Skool Equipment" - Priceless Have a great weekend everybody! |
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| (120270) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 24 17:41:20 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 22:52:45 2008. Coming back on Amtrak from Chicago and CTA to Trenton and the NJT 600 buses is like going back 20 years in time.Chicago: Mostly low floor New Flyers, 90% pay without cash. Fast ingress/egress. Get on the Capitol Ltd. Get off the Pennsylvanian. Trenton: Lug your bags onto a Flxible (precisely the buses CTA is getting rid of) and shell out exact fares for zones. Slow ingress/egress while others fumble for change. |
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| (120273) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by JAzumah on Fri Oct 24 17:51:33 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by TC40102A#9167 on Fri Oct 24 17:29:33 2008. APTA feels the same way. The manufacturers were complaining, so APTA has developed specs for the most commonly ordered buses. They are popping up more and more in specifications. |
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| (120299) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Oct 24 21:13:36 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 24 17:41:20 2008. Hmm has CTA made the move to replace the 6000 series Flxibles already? Also, NJT is so frustrating with its fare system and all of those zones and all of those people paying cash.It's certainly time to upgrade... |
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| (120301) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Fri Oct 24 21:29:39 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 22:48:50 2008. "But they insist they would lose too many seats with that configuration."You lose five feet of passenger room when you go low floor. If anything, they're wating for the Metro 45C, to keep the capacity about the same. |
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| (120345) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Fri Oct 24 23:57:55 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by NABI on Fri Oct 24 10:12:31 2008. Yes, and what ever happened to quality control. The frame supplier should be sued. By N.J.T. "and" NABI ! |
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| (120357) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Sat Oct 25 00:13:10 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Oct 24 13:49:00 2008. Frankly, I'm glad Millennium went under. That old RTS design is sadly out of date. The design is over 30 years old, for Pete's sake! I hated the thought of N.J.T. perpetuating that "shit" design for another 12 to fifteen years. I can't wait until all of the Nova's disappear off the streets of New Jersey. I've hated the Nova's from the day they got the first one.Among other things, I hate the narrow front stairway and narrow door. The platform area is too small. I've seen passengers hit their heads on the overhang when placing their fare in the box. The lifts should never be located in the center doors. And the bus is loud, inside and out. And that's just some of the reasons. In addition, they're ugly! Even though I prefer low floor buses, the new N.J.T. NABI is a good looking bus with nice, wide front doors and a large platform area. |
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| (120367) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Sat Oct 25 00:23:51 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Sat Oct 25 00:13:10 2008. Oh well to each his own.I for one love the RTS, and I was thrilled when NJT first got some! |
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| (120370) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Sat Oct 25 00:28:50 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Sat Oct 25 00:13:10 2008. The rear door wheelchair left is basically a standard feature. |
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| (120371) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by R33/R36 mainline on Sat Oct 25 00:29:14 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by JohnnyMints on Sat Oct 25 00:23:51 2008. I for one love the RTS, and I was thrilled when NJT first got some!I agree with your first statement, but i wish the NJT RTS's had an DD engine though. |
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| (120373) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sat Oct 25 00:41:51 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 14:38:33 2008. Lol, sure, what about the MCI classics then? |
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| (120377) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Sat Oct 25 00:52:21 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Ken S. on Sat Oct 25 00:28:50 2008. They have two different models previously that Nova Bus carriedRTS-06: skinny doors on the front, standard wheelchair lift operation at the rear door RTS-06 WFD (Wide front doors) - Ugly front nose - Wide doors on the front to accommodate wheelchair lift operation - Rear doors have the same length as the regular RTS-06. But, some operators choose the RTS-06 WFD and yet put the wheelchair lift operation at the rear... ex: TTC |
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| (120396) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 25 03:24:21 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Sat Oct 25 00:13:10 2008. Oh..so what you are saying,[through one could hardly tell from that line of "pearls" you spoke]..is that you have a PERSONAL DISLIKE OF THE RTS BUS...no other REAL reason..Just you don't like them..Oh well...buses aren't able to hatred..or dislike..or "FEEL".. They just Work... |
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| (120404) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by NABI on Sat Oct 25 10:08:31 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 25 03:24:21 2008. This sounds like a "Lost In Space" episodes. Robots don't have feelings. Nevermind. Why would one develop a hatred for the RTSs? They gave good service (I guess). Nobody remembers "Lost In Space?"Nevermind. I have faith and pray that the NABI's will arrive eventually, with the low-floor technologies for transit type buses. We'll just have to be content with the Flxibles and the RTSs for a little while longer. And we can look foward to the dual powered lokomotives, and the double-decker cars felt great. I rode on them while going down the North Jersey Coast on Labor Day. |
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| (120485) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Sat Oct 25 23:07:09 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by GOLD_12th on Sat Oct 25 00:52:21 2008. I recall those "flat front" Nova's with the wide front doors. Around that time, N.J.T. was placing another order of Nova's and I tried to convince Maureen Milan to go with that improved design. We argued, but she insisted that the frames were weak and defective in the front. She claimed to have knowledge that the MBTA in Boston and the TTC in Toronto both had problems with them. So, we got "stuck" with yet another batch of the "shit" variety of Nova's. I was not happy about it. |
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| (120487) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Sat Oct 25 23:11:33 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 25 03:24:21 2008. But some work well and others don't! I told you some of the reasons for my dislike of the RTS design bus. If you like them so much, I suggest you buy one and save it. |
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| (120695) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by NABI on Mon Oct 27 11:21:50 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by NABI on Sat Oct 25 10:08:31 2008. I understand that the suburbian buses should be standard floor, but the transit style buses should be low floor because of people with disabilities will get around easier. |
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| (120696) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by NABI on Mon Oct 27 11:34:47 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by NABI on Mon Oct 27 11:21:50 2008. Love or hate, this is what we got! Let's deal with it for now and pray for a better solution. Period! |
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| (120700) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by RTS_Book on Mon Oct 27 12:13:51 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Sat Oct 25 23:07:09 2008. Boston never had 'em. |
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| (120703) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by RTS_Book on Mon Oct 27 12:22:24 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Sat Oct 25 00:13:10 2008. Those were problems from 1978 onwards, and if a buyer so desired, they could spec their RTS' (at least from TMC and Nova) appropriately. WFD is one option already mentioned - but I even have photographs of a narrow-front-door RTS with a front-door lift.GM didn't pursue it after the Transbus episode because at the time, most operators surveyed reportedly wanted the lift in back. They also claimed there was less distance to travel from lift-to-securement position with a rear lift, which I'm apt to believe. I'm nearly six-foot tall, and I have no issues with headroom as you mentioned. Yeah, the original driver's cockpit was very tight (though I can still squeeze in with my fat torso and all), but later ones - notably the Millenniums - had a revised cockpit design that eliminated that problem. Heck, if you'd just ordered a WFD RTS, you'd eliminate the problem altogether. Ever sat in a first-gen TMC RTS-08 (like Chicago's)? That may be one of the nicest driver's workstations - both in terms of looks and accessibility - I've ever sat in. Still, looks are subjective, and you and I obviously differ on the RTS. I dislike the latter RTS WFD models (i.e. TMC 08 2nd-gen, Nova WFD), but the original 08 and the original RTS design is, IMHO, stylish, clean, and still relatively modern - even after all these years. What matters is durability - and it's hard to say the RTS didn't have that, though it's hard to make that case when some properties (Detroit, I'm looking at you) outright neglect them. |
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| (120831) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by NABI on Tue Oct 28 07:44:10 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by NABI on Mon Oct 27 11:21:50 2008. Of course, NJ has a bad reputation of having bad roads and they can can be fixed up too. |
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| (120836) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Oct 28 09:35:51 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by RailBus63 on Wed Oct 22 23:01:32 2008. Not necessarily. The MTA, for one, the nation's largest bus operator, has no rigid buses with rooftop A/C (the Vikings are no longer on the roster).The MTA can't possibly be the exception to the rule. Similarly, MBTA has no rigids with A/C on the rooftop. |
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| (120842) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Oct 28 12:12:52 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Oct 28 09:35:51 2008. Similarly, MBTA has no rigids with A/C on the rooftop.I think the AN-440LFs have rooftop A/C. |
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| (120843) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Oct 28 12:20:30 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Oct 28 12:12:52 2008. Oops...my bad! However, the MBTA went back to rear A/C for the D40LFs. |
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| (120844) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Oct 28 12:21:08 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Oct 28 09:35:51 2008. Correction on MBTA. |
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| (120869) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Pablo M 201 on Tue Oct 28 15:18:34 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 14:20:03 2008. The times of hammy dowmns are done. NJT needs new equipment for replacement.NJT would have to be in complete desperation to go ask other TAs for buses, and we don't see that time of complete desperation anytime soon. NJT is getting desperate, but not that desperate. The Metro-Bs still got a little juice in them to last til NJT and NABI sort out the problem. I'll admit also, many of the Metro-Bs are on their very last legs.... |
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| (120874) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Pablo M 201 on Tue Oct 28 15:53:37 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Sat Oct 25 00:13:10 2008. Blah, them Novas are just fine.I didn't like the 1999-2000 units when they first came in, but then having to deal with them every single day, I got use to them and realized how good they actually are. Many busfans judged the Novas on the spot of delivery and never looked back. Well guess what, LOOK BACK! |
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| (120875) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by rionOne on Tue Oct 28 15:58:11 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Pablo M 201 on Tue Oct 28 15:53:37 2008. My only issue with the 1999-2000 Novas are the suspensions are far too stiff in comparison to the 1995-96 batch. Other than that, I don't mind 'em.Trevor |
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| (120888) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Oct 28 18:22:16 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Pablo M 201 on Tue Oct 28 15:53:37 2008. How good are the Novas actually? Although my experience with them is somewhat limited, they sure do rattle and bounce. And the back row has a ridiculous amount of leg room. Otherwise, I like the engine sound and they are pretty quick.But they sure do bounce, especially in the back! |
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| (120913) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Flxiblemetro on Tue Oct 28 20:48:59 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by TMC RTS 06 on Thu Oct 23 20:03:43 2008. Is Millennium still in business? or it's website is just still up?http://millenniumtransit.com/NPD.asp |
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| (120940) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Oct 28 23:36:42 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by RTS_Book on Mon Oct 27 12:22:24 2008. I agree on the Nova WFD. I wanted N.J. Transit to order WFD's at the time they made their last big Nova purchase. I pushed for it. But like I said in a prior posting, Maureen Milan at that time insisted that there were serious problems and issues with the frames on the WFD's and refused to order them. Like I said, one of my biggest objections to the Nova bus is the steep, narrow front stairway and narrow front doorway. |
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| (120942) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Oct 28 23:47:38 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Oct 28 18:22:16 2008. In addition, the RTS design and original Nova bus design has a much too small front destination sign. This was greatly improved in the WFD design front end. Note on most flat front buses of today, NABI included, the destination sign is much larger and more readable. And it's usually tilted downwards towards the people trying to read it. In the RTS design, function was sacrificed for style. I know you guys who love the RTS design hate me for saying these things, but I'm just being practical. |
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| (120947) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Wed Oct 29 00:05:44 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Tue Oct 28 23:36:42 2008. Between this and her beef against Orion, this Maureen Milan sounds like some stick-in-the-mud maniac who wanted things her way and nothing more to the detriment of others. Just the type of person I loathe who I wouldn't hire to clean the grill at a greasy spoon in the Sleazesides. |
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| (120948) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Wed Oct 29 00:12:21 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Flxiblemetro on Tue Oct 28 20:48:59 2008. They are still in business as of right now. |
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| (120949) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 29 00:12:29 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Scrabbleship on Wed Oct 29 00:05:44 2008. Maureen could be stubborn! But personally, I liked her and we basically always got along. But it's a shame what eventually happened to her. Greed has destroyed many an otherwise good person. She had an impressive knowledge of the bus business. |
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| (121473) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by NABI on Sat Nov 1 16:56:14 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Sat Oct 25 00:13:10 2008. NABI and NJ Transit need Jesus. |
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