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| (119839) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by neolife07 on Wed Oct 22 07:55:37 2008, in response to Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 04:40:49 2008. The Flxibles live on! |
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| (119840) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Oct 22 08:03:50 2008, in response to Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 04:40:49 2008. So 5201 will now have an ISL in it instead of a CAT C9? |
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| (119845) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Oct 22 09:46:01 2008, in response to Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 04:40:49 2008. I know the buses fans don't want to hear this, but I am going to say it anyway: the Metro Bs have HAD IT. They are done done done. They can't even stand up straight anymore. I just hope this isn't true that the NABIs have been "framed" because keeping the Metro Bs is costing NJT so much money that they don't have.At this point, a fair number of jitneys are in better condition than the Metro Bs. |
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| (119857) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by rionOne on Wed Oct 22 12:09:58 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Oct 22 08:03:50 2008. Shit knowing NJT it might come with a ISM for that power.Trevor |
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| (119858) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by rionOne on Wed Oct 22 12:14:33 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by JAzumah on Wed Oct 22 09:46:01 2008. The METRO B's condition is NJT's fault. Those METRO Bs were in immaculate shape up until 2006. Right when NJT signed the contract with Millennium, they started defaulting on keeping up the appearance/maintenance of the METRO Bs which the thought that 200+ Millenniums were coming in, THEN when that order went south, they all of a sudden started trying to "patch up" what they let go. By that point it was too late.The METRO Bs to me aren't THAT done, tired maybe. If they are starting up every morning, going out and doing a sucessful day of service, then they are doing thier jobs. Trust me, Flxible parts are still easy to come by thanks to MCI, NABI and even NIMCO's parts departments which carry a multitude Flxible parts. Hell, the group I'm involved with, we were able to get parts for the Grumman in the collection... |
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| (119875) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Wed Oct 22 13:27:43 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by rionOne on Wed Oct 22 12:14:33 2008. This is a testament to the continuing quality and durability of the Flxible.The company's demise was premature and unecessary. |
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| (119876) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by RTS_Book on Wed Oct 22 13:36:19 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Bingham C50 on Wed Oct 22 13:27:43 2008. You can thank the former head of AM General's bus division for that... |
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| (119877) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Wed Oct 22 13:41:54 2008, in response to Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 04:40:49 2008. They should just cancel this NABI order and go with either Orion VII NGs or the New Flyer XCelsiors. It seems to me that there are so many problems with both parties.IMO, NJT has got to get off their High Horse and go Low Floor. Almost everyone else across the country has done so. Why not NJT? I'm a Flexible Fan. But some of those Metro Bs have had it. They're barely getting by. But at least it's barely and not at all. They need replacements and NOW. IMO, I see these NABIs go down the same path as Millenium for NJT. That 5201 is one FUGLY bus. |
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| (119880) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Wed Oct 22 14:18:22 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Wed Oct 22 13:41:54 2008. Well NJT could have order Orion V's too and it doesnt need a totally new look. NABI will survive being back by Cerbus just not like Millennium Transit that it went south.I am wondering is there an option for NJT if they really wanted Metro Bs off the road, they could get some temporarily leased transit buses to get most of the Metro Bs finally off the street until NABI comes. We could see a old Gillig Phantom in NJT scheme on some routes. |
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| (119881) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 14:20:03 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by JAzumah on Wed Oct 22 09:46:01 2008. At this point, a fair number of jitneys are in better condition than the Metro Bs.:wrong answer buzzer: And where would NJT get buses from if they had to retire the Metro-Bs with no replacements? MTA? PAT? SEPTA? Somewhere else? |
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| (119882) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Oct 22 14:22:39 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by GOLD_12th on Wed Oct 22 14:18:22 2008. Cost too much.They will keep what they have parts for or they will get new buses. Stopgap solutions are way too expensive. NJT is also trying to shrink the Private Carrier bus program as it is getting too expensive for them as well. |
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| (119883) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Oct 22 14:28:51 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 14:20:03 2008. Sphinx bought some school bus based equipment that is well taken care of. The jitneys are getting smarter and soon they will realize that school bus equipment is better than high maintenance minibuses near the end of their lives.The Metro Bs have to keep running until the new buses arrive. If an emergency occurs, there are a few properties retiring 1995-1996 buses, but I don't think it gets that far. |
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| (119884) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 14:33:38 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by GOLD_12th on Wed Oct 22 14:18:22 2008. My version of the Morris County system is made up mostly of used buses purchased by NJT.Ex-MTA Bus/NYCDOT    Ex-Orange County, CA  Not yet drawn Ex-PAT Metro-E, something has to replace 3219, 3231, and 3246. |
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| (119885) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 14:36:07 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by JAzumah on Wed Oct 22 14:22:39 2008. Then NJT can take over the privates unless they want all hell to break lose and I really wouldn't blame ATU 1614 (Lakeland) if they did. |
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| (119886) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 14:38:33 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by JAzumah on Wed Oct 22 14:28:51 2008. As I posted elsewhere, any bus would do. MTA's ex-DOT TMCs, PAT's Flxibles, OCTA's D40HFs could even work. |
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| (119889) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Oct 22 14:48:03 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by JAzumah on Wed Oct 22 14:22:39 2008. And of course, NJT does not want to cancel this contract. NABI has identified the issues and is working with NJT and component suppliers to resolve them before full-scale production begins. This is exactly what happened with NJT and Flxible... the 870 frame issue was discovered just after the NJT contract was signed. NJT hired metallurgy experts to work with Flxible to solve the issue, and that first batch of NJT 870s (1000-1270) proved to be fully serviceable buses for their lifespan. NABI would also hate to miss out on over $400 million for this contract... and with the financial issues now, that kind of money may not be as available as it was earlier this year when NJT likely arranged their financing.As far as the engines are concerned, Cummins has already made their bus engines 2010-legal. This would be a plus for NJT, as they can equip all the NABIs with the same powerplant... Cat could very well have supplied two different C9s... a 2007-compliant engine for the first deliveries, and a 2010-compliant engine for the rest. That's not what NJT likely wants... they need the first production NABI to be as identical to the last one as possible. It was known that NJT was not comfortable with the physical changes made by Flxible in the 1994 delivery... it meant lots of new parts for NJT, when there were already over 1000 otherwise-similar 870s and Metros in the state that shared their physical components. |
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| (119893) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Oct 22 14:52:14 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by kcram3500 on Wed Oct 22 14:48:03 2008. However...wasn't one of those changes a change to tail-lights that are now used on ALL NJT buses except for the Metro-Bs and the CNG MCIs? |
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| (119895) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by lbt 9415 on Wed Oct 22 14:57:35 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by kcram3500 on Wed Oct 22 14:48:03 2008. At least NABI is working with the vendor(s) to correct the problems...you don't wanna leave a customer unhappy, especially when they ordered a large number of coaches. 5201 is a very nice looking bus. Drivers compartment very spacious and passenger interior looks nice. I wish we had those.NABI has identified the issues and is working with NJT and component suppliers to resolve them before full-scale production begins... |
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| (119906) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Oct 22 16:00:59 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Oct 22 14:52:14 2008. Yes, but I'm referring more to totally new windows, the rear body panels that was now vertical instead of angled, the Sutrak roof HVAC. Those resulted in large, expensive parts NJT simply never used before. |
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| (119908) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by JAzumah on Wed Oct 22 16:15:23 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by kcram3500 on Wed Oct 22 14:48:03 2008. The question is whether some of these frame issues are being caused by the radical changes to the bus or whether the frame manufacturer was trying to cut corners.I also have some interesting bus news for you, kcramm, but I'm not putting it on BusTalk. If you can shoot me an e-mail, I will share it with you. |
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| (119916) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Oct 22 16:54:37 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by kcram3500 on Wed Oct 22 16:00:59 2008. However...NJT could have spec'd the buses to not require rooftop A/C. There are many operators who have or had Metro-Ds with rear A/C. |
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| (119917) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Oct 22 16:56:15 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by JAzumah on Wed Oct 22 16:15:23 2008. Check your e-box! |
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| (119918) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 17:05:59 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by rionOne on Wed Oct 22 12:09:58 2008. Knowing NJT, it will take about 5 years to get all the bugs out of the 416s and the Compobuses will be sitting in storage as NJT's versions of the Orion VI. |
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| (119920) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Oct 22 17:28:59 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Oct 22 16:54:37 2008. True, and NJT had experience with roof HVAC thanks to the Volvos. But I believe they weren't prepared for the ducting changes they got. |
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| (119922) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by R33/R36 mainline on Wed Oct 22 17:46:27 2008, in response to Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 04:40:49 2008. YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!! WOO HOO the flexbles live to see another day!!! |
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| (119936) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Wed Oct 22 20:20:39 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 14:38:33 2008. Or down the road, SEPTA's NABI's, WMATA's Flxibles, or MBTA's RTS's |
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| (119937) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by mci guy on Wed Oct 22 20:20:50 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 17:05:59 2008. by that time its time for new buses. sounds a lot like mta/nyct. |
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| (119938) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 20:22:49 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by mci guy on Wed Oct 22 20:20:50 2008. I was making fun of the PL42AC and Comet Vs again. |
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| (119941) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 20:24:17 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Scrabbleship on Wed Oct 22 20:20:39 2008. Does CT Transit have any buses due for retirement that NJT could scoop up if need be? |
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| (119966) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Wed Oct 22 22:01:24 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 14:38:33 2008. Why "any bus"? What makes the ex-DOT TMCs better than the Flxes currently in service?PAT's Flxes are young...they'd do well, if they didn't have those Voiths and Allisons...and DD50s for that matter. |
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| (119968) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 22:07:08 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Wed Oct 22 22:01:24 2008. I'm under the impression that NJT would be desperate for buses if the Metro-Bs had to be retired without replacements.It's either take whatever they can get their hands on or cut service. |
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| (119971) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 22:32:45 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by rionOne on Wed Oct 22 12:14:33 2008. Yes, the METRO B's are shot, especially the ones down in South Jersey. They can't even make it up the grade of the Ben Franklin bridge with the air-conditioning on! They were far from "immaculate" down in South Jersey. They've been junk for several years. They're "DONE" alright! A third world country wouldn't even take them as a gift. |
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| (119973) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 22:40:34 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 20:24:17 2008. Frankly, with the economy going so sour, less people are working and thus ridership will probably begin to fall off. I think N. J. T. can scrape by until the NABI's arrive. While I can't be sure, I have a feeling that they might start to arrive in April. I wonder if NABI will have to pay a hefty penalty for this screw up and delay. That's why there are performance bonds. You can bet N. J. T. has an iron clad contract. |
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| (119975) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 22:48:50 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Wed Oct 22 13:41:54 2008. I agree with you 100%. I tried to persuade N. J. T. to go low floor. But they insist they would lose too many seats with that configuration. But on the other hand, I explained that wheelchair lifts would no longer be necessary with low floor buses. A simple ramp is so much easier on the operator....less dwell time. And far less maintenance costs for N. J. T. Some people in N. J. T. management can be very stubborn and old fashioned. |
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| (119976) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 22:52:45 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Wed Oct 22 13:41:54 2008. NJT will never order an Orion product and Orion will never accept an order from NJT. Thank you Ms. Milan. |
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| (119977) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 22:54:38 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 22:48:50 2008. NJT is planning on ordering a small group of LFs for GoBUS service and they did order some O6s which never saw service and I wouldn;t be surprised if the 45Cs didn't either. |
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| (119979) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 22:57:45 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by R33/R36 mainline on Wed Oct 22 17:46:27 2008. I'd say another few months or more. |
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| (119981) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Wed Oct 22 23:01:32 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Oct 22 16:54:37 2008. Rooftop A/C is the way of the future, so NJT should just get with the program now. |
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| (119994) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Oct 23 00:14:12 2008, in response to Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 04:40:49 2008. Cummins has its owbn set of issues. Certain Cummins bus engines have had problems with turbochargers. |
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| (120008) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by rionOne on Thu Oct 23 00:50:20 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 22:32:45 2008. The South Jersey units were ALWAYS dogs, Everything in the south dogged.How is it that buses that came up from the south that are now in the north RUNS, but when they were in the south they couldn't get out thier own way. And that even goes for the Novas and some of the Cruisers!!!!!! South Division ain't shit. |
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| (120038) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by flxible870b on Thu Oct 23 10:20:52 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by rionOne on Thu Oct 23 00:50:20 2008. 3035 is a rocket now, when we first got it, it was class A SHIT! |
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| (120108) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by TMC RTS 06 on Thu Oct 23 20:03:43 2008, in response to Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 04:40:49 2008. Hey, maybe Millennium could try re-bidding on that c--oh wait. |
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| (120110) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by busdude2 on Thu Oct 23 20:22:52 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by TMC RTS 06 on Thu Oct 23 20:03:43 2008. Well for high floor buses njt is out of luck. If nabi can't do the order we know orion won't deal with njt and the orion v is done anyway. |
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| (120126) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Oct 23 21:12:23 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Ken S. on Wed Oct 22 22:52:45 2008. How can you say "never"? What if Orion was the last company standing?Ms. Milian can be ignored and go to hell for her misdeeds. Why couldn't we jail her for life since idiot Corzine banned the death penalty (BAD MOVE)? |
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| (120208) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by NABI on Fri Oct 24 10:09:09 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Oct 23 21:12:23 2008. Well, Well! As if New Jersey has enough problems! Now the buses that we have will have to work until they drop. Then NJ Transit will have to consider. Why does NJ Transit not stick to the low-floor technoligies which will make travel easier for the transit buses. This is embarrasing that we have one of the oldest fleet running. I can't stand those skinny doors that NOVA has. |
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| (120209) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by NABI on Fri Oct 24 10:12:31 2008, in response to Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by Transit Jeff on Wed Oct 22 04:40:49 2008. New Jersey is a mess, always has been for years. Why weren't these problems addressed in the first place? |
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| (120213) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Fri Oct 24 11:21:43 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by busdude2 on Thu Oct 23 20:22:52 2008. Not unless NJ Transit give Orion a special present with lots of green paper money, then they can receive some high floor (not over customized) buses. |
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| (120214) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by GOLD_12th on Fri Oct 24 11:35:12 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by NABI on Fri Oct 24 10:12:31 2008. NJ Transit has some kind of jinx that lead bus manufacturers in trouble.For example: Millennium Transit (Chapter 11) Motor Coach Industries (Chapter 11) Neoplan USA (Chapter 7) Flixible (Out of business) Eagle Bus (out of business, but now return as Silver Eagle Bus) Nova Bus, Volvo (Out of US market, now coming back) Orion Bus (nearly went under, save by Daimler) Next... NABI ( going out of.....?) maybe not |
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| (120219) | |
Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Oct 24 12:49:50 2008, in response to Re: Problems with N. J. Transit's new NABI buses, posted by GOLD_12th on Fri Oct 24 11:35:12 2008. There's no way that this order is putting NABI out of business. NABI already has very strong relationships with other major transit agencies and will probably continue supplying new buses to them. |
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