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| Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) (111621) | |
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| (111674) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Sat Aug 16 03:00:37 2008, in response to Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by CentrolinerDD on Fri Aug 15 20:52:16 2008. I did not get into buses until around 2001, so I don't have much firsthand history about what happened before that with some exceptions. However, since then I have found some secondary history about it (from other photos, etc) so I can help answer these questions. Since I am short on time right now, I will "fully" answer the other questions when I get a chance. (Also, pardon the fact that I cannot hyperlink stuff but I can provide URLs)1. "Tico" was introduced in 1971-1973, and from photos that I have seen it was removed from the buses in the 1980s. It was introduced with the takeover of Phoenix Transit System by the city during this time. An orange and purple livery was introduced (see the photo link below) and changed in 1979 (to a simplified version without the silver and yellow on the bottom sides) and 1989(?) (to a further simplified version without the "orange front"). The MAN Articulated buses (see below) delivered in 1985 did not have the Tico logo. I don't know exactly why this logo was eliminated, but I have heard that it was mildly offensive to some people due to the sombrero. Nevertheless, after some newspaper articles and other stuff, in 2002 Valley Metro restored 1981 RTS-04 4401 to its delivery livery, including Tico (since it was the first wheelchair accessible bus in Phoenix). If you go to Central Station in downtown Phoenix (or check out the pics below) you can see this bus. 2. This is the best site for route history since about 1995: http://www.recnet.com/transit/phx_history.shtml I will put some more info up when I get a chance though. |
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| (111696) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Sat Aug 16 10:14:33 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by roscoman1986 on Sat Aug 16 03:00:37 2008. Yes. To cast out the net a little further "Valley Metro" didn't exist prior to 1993. The only operator of heavy-duty transit buses prior to that was Phoenix Transit System.* Scottsdale Connection operated some Blue Birds. Tempe operated some smaller buses. Phoenix did operate routes into the surrounding cities, and eventually operated services exclusively for Tempe and Glendale.The first "new" transits to wear Valley Metro colors were the 4000 series New Flyers. And the lone Neoplan AN440. Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Metro_(Phoenix) if you would like to cull information from there. |
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| (111732) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Sat Aug 16 20:09:19 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by roscoman1986 on Sat Aug 16 03:00:37 2008. Thanks, roscoman.The REC Transit site provides a lot of details, but sadly it is a little outdated (I think it was last updatd in 2004). You mentioned a "photo link," but the only URL that you provided is for the REC Transit site (and there are no photos there). Anyway, thanks again. |
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| (111733) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Sat Aug 16 20:21:17 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by T8H5307N on Sat Aug 16 10:14:33 2008. Thanks for the link. It provides a lot of information about Valley Metro and the history. Very interesting.I was surprised to read that the Green Line is the most used route in Phoenix. I thought it was the Red Line (I remember reading this a few years ago). This link (http://www.ci.phoenix.az.us/PUBLICTRANSIT/qckfacts.html) says that the Green Line has the most weekday boardings. But it is from May 2005. Is there any information from 2007 or 2008? |
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| (111734) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Sat Aug 16 20:47:35 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by CentrolinerDD on Sat Aug 16 20:21:17 2008. I forgot to qualify the asterisk...the Phoenix city bus system was on-again/off-again city-owned, however up until the 1960s, there were several private companies providing bus service. The city sold the system in 1959, and reclaimed it in 1971. This is when the pink and orange scheme with "Tico" was adopted. |
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| (111762) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Sun Aug 17 03:26:47 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by T8H5307N on Sat Aug 16 20:47:35 2008. Was Tico the logo of Phoenix's public transportation network? Or was is just used as an advertising scheme? |
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| (111771) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Sun Aug 17 10:21:12 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by CentrolinerDD on Sun Aug 17 03:26:47 2008. It was hardly a network in 1971. Only 91 buses at that point. I think Tico was a servicemark, just like Tim was for Tempe when it launched its services with the EZ-Riders. |
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| (111804) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Sun Aug 17 18:28:25 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by T8H5307N on Sun Aug 17 10:21:12 2008. Okay, that makes sense. Thanks. |
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| (112077) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Tue Aug 19 19:53:28 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by roscoman1986 on Sat Aug 16 03:00:37 2008. If you go to Central Station in downtown Phoenix (or check out the pics below) you can see this bus.I saw it today at Central Station. Thanks for the recommendation. While I had seen that bus before, I never noticed Tico. |
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| (112129) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Aug 20 00:10:49 2008, in response to Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by CentrolinerDD on Fri Aug 15 20:52:16 2008. Here is a non-historical question:How many bus yards/depots are there in metropolitan Phoenix? And where are they located? |
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| (112137) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Aug 20 01:58:31 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Aug 20 00:10:49 2008. Valley Metro has 6 bus garages. 3 are owned by the City of Phoenix, 1 is owned jointly by the City of Tempe and the City of Scottsdale, and 1 is owned by the RPTA. Additionnally, there is the ValuTrans garage which is privately owned.Garage: Phoenix South Division Address: 2225 W Lower Buckeye Rd Phoenix, AZ 85009-6948 Operator: Veolia Phoenix Fuel: LNG and Diesel Fleet: 1998 NABI 40-LFW LNG (higher numbered buses, approx 6090-6156) 2001 ElDorado National EZ Rider (4164-4172) (DASH) 2002 ElDorado National EZ Rider (4173-4175) (Unknown, DASH?) 2002 NABI 40-LFW LNG (6282-6377) 2004 NABI 45C-LFW (Compobus) (Various numbered buses, for I-10 EAST RAPID and likely SR 51 RAPID) 2004 New Flyer D60LF (8001-8020) 2007 New Flyer D60LF (8046-8050) Routes: 35, 27, 19, 15, 8, Red Line, 0, 7, 7L, 12, 16, 70, 32, Blue Line, 44, 50, 1, 52, 10, I-10 EAST RAPID, SR51 RAPID, DASH (and possibly I-17 RAPID, 570, 581, 582, 590, as well as routes listed under Phoenix North Division as the north division is operated as a satellite of the South Division) Garage: Phoenix North Division Address: 2010 W Desert Cove Avenue Phoenix AZ 85029 Operator: Veolia Phoenix Fuel: LNG and Diesel (also appears Gasoline) Fleet: 1998 NABI 40-LFW LNG (various lower numbered buses i.e. lower than 6090) 1999 NABI 40-LFW LNG (6211-6245) 2004 NABI 45C-LFW (Various numbered buses, for I-17 RAPID) 2007 New Flyer D40LF (1/2 of 6501-6596, assorted fleet numbers) 2007 Startrans Senator (1487-1500) Routes: 50, 60, 80, 90, 106, 122, 138, 154, 170, 186, 19, 15, 8, 0, 16, 44, Blue Line, I-17 RAPID, SMART, Deer Run, DART (and possibly several other routes listed above under Phoenix South Division as this division serves as a satellite as the Phoenix South Division) Garage: Phoenix West Division Operator: First Transit Address: 405 North 79th Avenue Phoenix, Arizona 85043 Fuel: LNG, Diesel, and Gasoline Fleet: 1996 New Flyer D40LF (3701-3729) 1998 NABI 40-LFW LNG (Various numbered buses between 6001-approx 6080 or 6090) 2003 NABI 45-C LFW (7101-7123) 2007 New Flyer D40LF (1/2 of 6501-6596, assorted fleet numbers) 2007 New Flyer D60LF (8021-8045) 2007 Startrans Senator (1474-1486) Routes: 67, 59, 51, 43, 131, 13, 3, 3A, 17, 17A, Green Line, Green Line Avondale, 41, 41A, Grand Avenue Limited, 560, 562, I-10 WEST RAPID, MARY Garage: East Valley Operating Facility (Tempe/Scottsdale) Operator: Veolia Tempe Address: 2050 West Rio Salado Pkwy. Tempe, Arizona 85281 Fuel: CNG, LNG, Diesel, Gasoline Fleet: 1998 NABI 40-LFW (6164-6172) 1998 NABI 35-LFW (6181-6195) 1998 ElDorado National EZ Rider (4101-4120) 1999 ElDorado National EZ Rider (4121-4145) 1999 NABI 35-LFW (6196-6210) 1999 NABI 40-LFW (6254-6255) 2000 ElDorado National EZ Rider (4150-4154) 2002 NABI 40-LFW (6378-6381) 2004 NABI 45C-LFW (7157-7164) 2006 New Flyer C40LFR (6401-6409) 2007 ElDorado National Aerotech (1421-1460) Routes: 108, 77, 114, 92, 56, 62, 65, 66, 72, 76, 84, ORBIT, 510, 512, 520, 521 Garage: RPTA Operator: Veolia RPTA Fuel: CNG, LNG, Diesel Fleet: 1994 New Flyer D40LF (may be retired, various numbers 4002-4030) 1997 NovaBus RTS-WFD (6461-6478?) 1998 NABI 40-LFW LNG (6157-6163) 1999 NABI 40-LFW LNG (6246-6253) 2000 NABI 35-LFW LNG (6256-6261) 2000 ElDorado National EZ Rider (4146-4149) 2001 ElDorado National EZ Rider (4155-4163) 2001 NABI 40-LFW CNG (6262-6281) 2006 New Flyer C40LFR (6410-6452) 2006 NABI 60BRT (8501-8510) 2007 New Flyer D40LFR (6453-6460, 6481-6482?) 2008 New Flyer C40LFR (6597-6647) 2008 New Flyer DE40LFR (6648) Routes: 156, 45, 61, 30, 81, 96, 104, 112, 120, 128, 136, 540, 541, 511, 531, 532, 533, 535 ValuTrans Address: 4600 W Camelback Rd Glendale, AZ 85301 Fleet: 1997 NovaBus RTS-WFD (6479-6480?) 2007 New Flyer D40LFR (6483?-6500) Routes: 562, 571, 572, 573, 575 |
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| (112191) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Aug 20 18:43:30 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Aug 20 01:58:31 2008. Thanks, PHXTUSbusfan! That is more information that I wanted, but it is very useful.Where is the RPTA garage? I know it is in Mesa, but that is all I know. |
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| (112208) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Aug 20 21:21:30 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Aug 20 18:43:30 2008. Oh, I forgot to put the address there. Silly me:3320 N. Greenfield Road Mesa, Arizona 85215 |
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| (112211) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Aug 20 21:22:52 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Aug 20 18:43:30 2008. Thanks!Much of the credit, at least about the fleet, goes to roscomman1986 who updated my relatively basic wikipedia page about the fleet. |
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| (112228) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by CentrolinerDD on Wed Aug 20 22:52:39 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Aug 20 21:21:30 2008. Thanks. |
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| (112231) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Wed Aug 20 23:13:23 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Aug 20 21:22:52 2008. I figured someone on this board had set up that page.The Phantoms 961-967 were acquired new by Mayflower (under a capital lease) and operated for Phoenix Transit. In 1994, the city acquired the leases, but Mayflower continued to operate the buses. I believe Phantoms 250-263 were leased by MV Transportation. They seemed to disappear when Veolia took over (again). |
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| (112243) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Aug 21 01:13:45 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by T8H5307N on Wed Aug 20 23:13:23 2008. Aha! That clears up the reason why 961-967 were numbered in such an odd way. Unfortunately, I never got a chance to ride them, but looking inside they appeared to have the same specs as all of the other buses in the fleet.Phantoms 250-263 were formerly F250-F263 and some were in the 9100 series. They were retired with the arrival of the 2006 New Flyer C40LFRs after April 1, 2006. |
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| (112244) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Aug 21 01:20:33 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Aug 20 01:58:31 2008. Also, there are two other garages, one official (but tiny) and another unofficial:Ajo Transportation (south of downtown Ajo, Arizona in Pima County, which is officially in the Tucson metropolitan area). Operates unknown numbered 2007 Aero Elite buses that are in a similar color scheme to the 2006 and 2008 ElDorado Aerotech East Valley Dial-A-Ride buses operated by Veolia-RPTA. Ollie the Trolley in south Scottsdale, Arizona. Operates Freightliner Trolley buses 5001-5007 (2004) and 5008-5014 (2006). Also, a minor update to the Veolia-Tempe garage: Buses 1499-1502 (2005 Startrans Senator) are back in service and have been fully repainted in Orbit colors (they were previously in Neighborhood FLASH colors and were stored for a while). They have a "Mars" sticker on where the destination sign would normally be. At first, I thought the bus was a new Orbit bus until I drove up closer to it. I don't think 1460 is even a Veolia-Tempe bus (or an ElDorado National for that matter). I would guess that it is a Startrans Senator as I have seen virtually the entire Orbit fleet and never seen 1460. I guess they got 39 buses. |
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| (112246) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Thu Aug 21 01:27:34 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Aug 21 01:20:33 2008. Thanks! I really don't count Ollie the Trolley as part of the Valley Metro system. I know it is, but the bus stop signs are different and it always seemed like a totally different operation. I don't really remember Ajo Transportation because that route is so non-traditional. |
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| (112248) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Thu Aug 21 01:30:28 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Aug 21 01:13:45 2008. Unfortunately, I never were able to ride any of the ex-Foothill Phantoms or 961-967. I saw the 35' Phantoms on the 60 and 80 (which are the two routes I believe they generally were confined to). The only Valley Metro Gilligs I ever was on were an ex-Hertz ones on the 81.Honestly, the summer of 2005 was a bad time for the East Valley. First, most of the Tempe division buses (as well as a good portion of the RPTA fleet) had broken destination signs and were signed up with those large yellow route number signs. Second, the RPTA 1994 D40LFs were driving around with their engine compartment doors open. Third, there was a mismatch of buses running around with these ex-Foothill Gilligs and the Hertz Gilligs that barely looked like transit buses. Also, didn't the NovaBus RTSs replace the ex-Foothill and ex-Hertz Gilligs. I never saw a Valley Metro Gillig after those buses came in (although I only spent a VERY small amount of time in the Phoenix area in 2006). |
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| (112275) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Aug 21 11:22:02 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Thu Aug 21 01:30:28 2008. Yep, the summer of 2005 was really bad, also throw in a bunch of A/C problems (especially with the D40LFs). Most of this had to do with the bus shortage that developed when the ElDorado Transmarks were pulled out of service after 11 years and the fact that Arizona State University made all Valley Metro services free. With that, they could no longer run 30-footers on the 72 and 81 (mostly the 81) like they had previously been doing, and the ElDorado Transmarks could not survive the increased patronage. With this and the entire MV Transportation debacle, they had no choice but to lease buses from Foothill Transit and Hertz because that was the only thing that was available.The Tempe sign problems really did not start until the summer of 2006, when they recieved some ElDorados from the RPTA that essentially had no headsigns at all. It lasted until January 2007 when they replaced the headsigns with Luminator Horizons. I still remember the Hertz buses and their bright yellow interior lights as well as carpeted interiors. The biggest pain was that they had no stop request, so these buses required two drivers to operate (one to drive and the other to request stops), which was quite annoying. The Foothill buses were fun because they were suburbans (without luggage racks but with reading lights) and they had stop request and comfortable (non-reclining) seats. Overall, 2005-early 2006 was an interesting time for busfans (with Novas, Gilligs, and most of the 1994 D40LFs still alive) but not necessarily for riders. |
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| (112307) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Thu Aug 21 16:34:51 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Aug 21 11:22:02 2008. I was in one of the ex-Hertz buses on the 81 that only had one operator. I believe he announced to all boarding passengers that "you have to let me know when you want to get off" and "I have no bell." The other thing I remember about the bus is that there were absolutely no markings anywhere on it that it was a Valley Metro bus (other than that yellow card in the window). Lastly, there were some problems with the rear door closing correctly on the bus.What exactly is the MV Transportation debacle mentioned here? |
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| (112311) | |
Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical) |
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Posted by T8H5307N on Thu Aug 21 17:15:37 2008, in response to Re: Valley Metro questions (mainly historical), posted by roscoman1986 on Thu Aug 21 11:22:02 2008. MV was completely in on April 10, 2005, and out on March 11, 2006. I rarely saw the Foothill Gilligs, except on the occasional ferry to start a downtown express run. They seemed to disappear at the same time Veolia assumed the RPTA operation. That's why I thought MV supplied the Gilligs (as, too, it operates for Foothill).At almost the same time in 2005, Phoenix stopped operating RPTA express services, so D40LFs (and Gilligs) were used on these, and some MSTs were moved to displace EZ-Riders on the 156. MSTs were also used to replace Transmarks in Mesa. I never saw a Transmark on 72. When MV took over the route, it began using the Mesa NABIs to supplement the D40LFs and replace the RPTA (LNG) NABIs. |
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