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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 31 16:03:55 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by R30A on Sat Jan 14 19:31:54 2017.

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"You are advocating against the improvements to save the lives of pedestrians and greatly improve bus service without any indication that it would actually harm automobile users. So yes, you are very much saying that."

All that is your opinion. It is not fact, so don't state it as such. The facts are that I am not advocating safety improvements for pedestrians or against something that would "greatly" improve bus service. The facts are that many believe that SBS as proposed on Woodhaven would make the street less safe for pedestrians who now may run across traffic without looking in order to catch a bus when they didn't have to do that before. Also, anyone who drives on Woodhaven knows traffic will be slower because it already is slower where the exclusive lanes have been installed,

Me: I asked him a simple yes or no question and his response was that neither of us has proved anything which says absolutely nothing and avoids the question being asked.

You: When there is nothing to say, why would saying nothing be in any way bad?

Me: Because saying nothing is avoiding answering the question and that is bad.

You: But he isn't claiming that. And it easily could be true in many portions of the road. (It doesn't matter if it is true or not, as nobody is claiming that.)

Me: Why don't you just let him speak for himself? And now you go changing the parameters again as you often do when you realize you can't prove your case. Now you only want to talk about portions of the roadway instead of the entire roadway.

Me: Now you are making an equally outrageous statement that the numbers of autos are inflated because many cars make multiple trips up and down the street while bus riders tend to make only one trip each way.

You: I am making no such claim.

Me: So what are you claiming then?

You: Wrong. Each mile you drive cost you more gas.
Generally yes, unless you have an all electric car.

Me: Wrong about what? I never claimed anything to the contrary.

Me: Got any other ideas why 50,000 car crossings is not more than 33,000 bus riders?

You: Nobody is saying that it is.

Me: That is exactly what fdtutf was saying.

Me: That certainly is relevant data. So don't lie and say I am basing my conclusions on no data.

You: Actually it isn't, as it gives you no real information outside of that location.

Me: So either you accuse me of having no data, and when I do provide data, you just claim it is irrelevant. There is no way to bw right when arguing with you. Because all your opinions are facts and all my facts are just wrong opinions. And when you cant refute an argument, you just deny making the argument in the first place. That us why trying to have honest discussions with you is not possible and trying to have them is a waste of time.

You: 20% Bus users getting 1/4 lanes is certainly the most equitable distribution of resources. Congrats! You justified it!!!

Me: Your arithmetic is simplistic and off. 20% of the users (bus users) getting 25% of the space is not equitable. It means cars get less space than they have now so traffic has to move slower unless significant numbers switch from car to bus and we have zero reason to believe that would be the case. Even DOT has not claimed anyone will switch from car to bus just because of SBS. It also assumes that the proportion of car and bus users remains the same through out the day which certainly is not the case. During midday, evenings and most weekends, the proportion of those in autos compared to those in buses reaches 95%, yet they still are allowed to use only 80% of the roadway. During off-hours the average bus has like 15 passengers or less, yet you would like us to believe that every bus carries 60 people. But at least I am making some headway. I finally got you to admit that 80 percent of the traffic is drivers and car passengers and only 20% are bus riders.

Me:I can just as easily twist what you say if I wanted to. So thanks for proving my case for me that SBS is a poor idea by hurting more than it helps.

You: Except that unlike you, I never actually said the things you say I do. And since Woodhaven SBS is projected to HELP THE 80% IN CARS. That is a REALLY hard argument to make.

Me: Yes, whenever you can't provide justification for your argument after I have shown you how ridiculous some of your claims are, you just backtrack and claim never to have made the argument in the first place. Why not just admit you were wrong? That will be the day. Because you believe you are never wrong. And yes DOT can claim all they want SBS will help those in cars and they will be wrong as they often are. We have already seen traffic congestion increase and it will continue to increase. I am just glad I no longer need to use the street on a daily basis. My trips used to average 45 minutes to an hour. Today those same trips take 55 to 70 minutes. After SBS, it will be more like 65 or 70 minutes up tp 90 minutes, the same as a subway trip takes me during the day. So yes, if we keep slowing traffic to the point where using mass transit is just as slow, some will start switching to mass transit. Is that the plan you endorse?

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