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| Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! (32971) | |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 21 10:44:54 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Feb 20 22:04:59 2008. You are correct. Most reasonable people would just say yes and be on their way. But why should he if he was right? He was acting like a reporter by posing the question and not complying. Any question to an police officer often gets them mad. They just want you to always comply. But I guess you would know about that.I say if he was right, because he may not be. Nilet seems very confident that he is. He or his attorney should investigate all the rules before being so sure. Although photography may be perfectly legal, there may be other conflicting laws the officers could use on their behalf. In particular, I'm wondering why you are not allowed on the platform unless you have a ticket (waiting for a train) or had just gotten off. Sounds like the intention is that after getting off, you are not allowed to linger on the platform for any other purpose. That makes it sound like you may need special permission for photography although the act itself may not specifically be banned. Nilet should first try to investigate these facts himself before he invests money in an attorney when it may not be as good a case as he thinks. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:48:47 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Feb 20 22:04:59 2008. That is what I have been wondering...how does it happen only to the original poster? Another poster got stopped very recently, but nothing happened to him other than having to find another spot. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:49:36 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by chuchubob on Wed Feb 20 20:55:57 2008. Actually, Subway Signage may have a point. He may be doing something that others here don't do when questioned...if you ask me. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:52:21 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by BMTLines on Thu Feb 21 10:31:42 2008. Noted.Now, the question is: Does the property owner have a superceding rule? |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Feb 21 10:53:55 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:43:26 2008. That is what I would need to know---who makes the rules for that area.BMTLines got a hold of this Funny i cant find that memo in my data base and i know i have seen it posted.. |
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| (33126) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Feb 21 10:56:06 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:52:21 2008. Now, the question is: Does the property owner have a superceding rule?Hence the "grey area"... The one you dont know about until something goes down then "Bingo" out comes a peice of paper... |
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| (33127) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Feb 21 11:11:33 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:48:47 2008. Another poster got stopped very recently, but nothing happened to him other than having to find another spot.That's the problem - something did happen to him - he was told photography is illegal when clearly it is not. I will not deny that Nilet's issues get escalated quite possibly because of his attitude. BUT my objection to what authorities are doing is with the fact that they tell someone not to take pictures in the first place. I find THAT to be the most egregious offense - the rest is collateral damage. If photographers filed a complaint with the NYCLU each and every time they are told to "move on" by a cop then they may have a basis for a class action suit. |
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| (33128) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Feb 21 11:13:40 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by BMTLines on Thu Feb 21 11:11:33 2008. If photographers filed a complaint with the NYCLU each and every time they are told to "move on" by a cop then they may have a basis for a class action suit.Of course if said person was in the right... Sometimes they are not... |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:18:32 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Wed Feb 20 23:22:14 2008. Photography on the GCT platforms is legal. However, you're technically not allowed on any platform except the one for which the train you have a ticket or pass to ride on is/will be. I've photographed the platform level, I've gotten a few wiseass remarks from employees (usually cleaners) and I've put every single one of them in their place without difficulty. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:20:27 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by R142 #6666 on Thu Feb 21 00:47:47 2008. Terp is a jackass, but he's also right. There's no law against photographing on the platform. |
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| (33131) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:22:00 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Thu Feb 21 01:38:58 2008. As far as illegal photos at GCT, my higher up says you can't. They are 100% wrong. Bullshit doesn't improve based on the rank of the bullshitter. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:28:06 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:31:04 2008. Private property leased for public use is public space. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 11:36:05 2008, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 20 20:45:31 2008. No offense to you and I aint the one who cares bout who takes pics of what, but you do seem like the type to cause suspicion. I saw you in action a while back at Hoyt while I was at the RFW and you were flashing away like you were the train paparazzi.You gotta be smooth with the pics and you wont be noticed. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 11:38:17 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 11:36:05 2008. But still that doesn't give them the right to bother you since photography isn't against the law so go out and fight for your money. |
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| (33135) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Feb 21 11:38:37 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 11:36:05 2008. >>>>"the train paparazzi"<<<<LOL |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 11:39:34 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 11:36:05 2008. In all seriousness, however, it makes a big difference if you have already "established a spot" before the target comes in. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 11:42:24 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:18:32 2008. What happens when you buy the right zone ticket (pay the correct distance fare) but then for whatever reason decide to use it on a different destination/platform than the one on the ticket?I've done that on the LIRR a few times. |
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| (33138) | |
Re: NOT ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:42:31 2008, in response to Re: NOT ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 21 08:03:51 2008. I've never had a major problem, except at Broadway on the Astoria line during Centennial festivities back in 2004. Newkirk Plaza David can confirm. Even under direct threat from a police officer, I still got the shot:  I've had few issues with Metro North and Amtrak, and none with NJT. Perhaps it's my honest face. |
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| (33139) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Feb 21 11:43:24 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:52:21 2008. That would probably depend on the terms of the lease. I think we can make an educated assumption that Argent Ventures is not taking an active role in the management of GCT. I believe it leases the entire terminal and related trackage to the MTA. Don't the shops/restaurants located in the terminal pay rent to MTA rather than Argent?The basis of my "educated assumption" include the fact that MTA rather than Argent filed for various trademarks with respect to GCT: Grand Central Market Grand Central Dining Concourse Retail Leasing at GCT The following takes BIG BRASS BALLS though: How dare they trademark the clock above the information booth - it was not something they built or created: Clock Trademark But I digress... the bottom line is I doubt that anyone other than MTA is setting the rules there.... |
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| (33140) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:45:07 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 11:42:24 2008. Dunno, I've never been stopped photographing in said situation. I don't photograph on the Penn platforms anyway. Can't seem to get shots of trains without people in the way. |
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| (33141) | |
Re: NOT ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 11:47:08 2008, in response to Re: NOT ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:42:31 2008. So how did you handle the cop? What did you say? |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:47:47 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Feb 21 11:38:37 2008. I wonder what the equivelent of a picture of a naked Britney Spears would be to the train paparazzi ... |
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| (33143) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 11:49:35 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 11:36:05 2008. I assume you mean he was making a big production out of the shots, not that he was using flash (as in light flash). |
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| (33144) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 11:50:19 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:28:06 2008. Agreed. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Feb 21 11:58:32 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 11:28:06 2008. A similar issue was raised in Silver Springs Maryland where a private company leases a street that is open to the public. They tried to impose a photo ban and here is what happened:A group called DC Photo Rights was born If you follow the thread you will note that the Petersen Companies had to back down in the end... |
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| (33146) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 11:59:12 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 11:49:35 2008. I seen flashes. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 12:00:14 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 11:59:12 2008. Theres time when you gotta use flash in the subway but not directly at the TO. |
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| (33148) | |
Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Feb 21 12:04:47 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by R142 #6666 on Thu Feb 21 01:21:26 2008. This is the relevant image: The other images are cover letters to the NYCLU which accompanied this memo. |
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| (33149) | |
Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:08:36 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 11:59:12 2008. DIFFERENT BALLGAMEIf you witnessed flash, that is against MTA policy and done for both crew and passenger safety and comfort. MTA cops had every right to stop him and demand he turn off the camera. In fact, I would have wanted them to escort Nilet out of the station and cancel his visiting privileges for a week. YOU NEVER USE FLASH NEAR THE TRAINS, PARKED OR NOT. Just don't do it unless you have a permit for a specific project. So on top of doing something illegal, Nilet mouthed off. Nilet deserved worse than he got. I take back what I said earlier. Nilet has no case here. If anything, MTA cops are to be congratulated for showing restraint. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:09:07 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 12:00:14 2008. WRONG. You don't gotta use flash at all ever down there. |
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Re: MTA Photog policy |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:09:59 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by BMTLines on Thu Feb 21 12:04:47 2008. Thanks for posting that |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Feb 21 12:18:46 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:09:07 2008. Absolutely right. A flash in anyone's eyes is distracting but I can only imagine what it does to the eyes of a motorman who has just come out of a dark tunnel...I remember being in the planetarium once (the original Hayden not the current one) when some "rocket scientist" decided to take a flash picture. Everyone was blinded and the show halted while we recovered. |
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Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP? |
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Posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 12:19:37 2008, in response to Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP?, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:08:36 2008. We dont know for sure if he used flash in this situation. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:24:40 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by BMTLines on Thu Feb 21 12:18:46 2008. Ouch! |
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Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:26:35 2008, in response to Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP?, posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 12:19:37 2008. Ah, you've seen him use flash in the past but you didn't witness this time.OK, well, Nilet, did you use flash? Did you use a floodlight while filming? If you do, you deserved the ass-kicking you got. If you truly did not, then we're back to sqare one and you go ahead and sue. |
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Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 12:31:54 2008, in response to Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP?, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:08:36 2008. I don't think flashes are technically illegal, though they shouldn't be used anyway. |
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Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:35:48 2008, in response to Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 12:31:54 2008. MTA policy, if I recall correctly, says you can't use flash or tripod. Period.IF Nilet used flash, his only correct response to the cops should be to apologize, turn the camera off and walk away. |
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Re: NOT ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 12:36:21 2008, in response to Re: NOT ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 11:47:08 2008. The cop initially said photography was illegal. I said no it was not, the law says so. Cop continually brought up 9/11. I continually brought up the law. As the R9's approached, the cop relented and said that I could photograph the "old" train. I then snapped said picture. Afterwards I turned to the officer and asked what power he had to allow me to take this picture if it truly was illegal. I then walked away. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Feb 21 12:36:29 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 21 10:44:54 2008. From a previous message: "In particular, I'm wondering why you are not allowed on the platform unless you have a ticket (waiting for a train) or had just gotten off. Sounds like the intention is that after getting off, you are not allowed to linger on the platform for any other purpose. That makes it sound like you may need special permission for photography although the act itself may not specifically be banned."I am not commenting on the photography issue, even though it happens to be fascinating area of discussion. I am wondering about the issues of loitering and crowd-control as the reasons why such rules were created. A while ago the MTA at Grand Central station had a problem with homeless persons at the station, and this could be a way to clear the terminal of un-wanted persons. Such rules may have had nothing to do with photographers, but to instill the idea that the terminal is for train travelers, not those who are there for other purposes. Again that is a guess on my part, and not a reflection on photographers or there actions. Mike |
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Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 12:37:55 2008, in response to Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP?, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:35:48 2008. I believe the word is "ancillary equipment". Flashes can't really be defined as such. Tripods could. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 21 12:38:04 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:20:14 2008. No..I'm saying they are OUT AND OUT LYING. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 21 12:39:56 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:29:00 2008. Hummmm..If they MTA doesn't "OWN" Grand Central..why are they spending so much of the TAX PAYERS MONEY repairing it? Why doesn't the OWNER make repairs? |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 12:40:33 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 21 10:29:00 2008. Argent Ventures does not make up the rules at GCT, and I don't think they own the tracks and platforms, just the station building itself. MTA rules clearly apply here. |
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Re:WHO OWNS GRAND CENTRAL TERMINAL? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 21 12:43:20 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Railman718 on Thu Feb 21 10:34:36 2008. I just asked that very same question..Does the MTA OWN GRAND CENTRAL? If Not..why are they spending so much money on it...? EVEN building a new branch to it rather than 48th street/3rd avenue? What the deal? |
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Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:48:29 2008, in response to Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 12:37:55 2008. False."No person may perform any act which interferes with or may tend to interfere with the provision of transit service, obstructs or may tend to obstruct the flow of traffic on facilities or conveyances, or interferes with or may tend to interfere with the safe and efficient operation of the facilities or conveyances of the Authority. " Flash is appropriately consifdered a hazard. "Photography, filming or video recording in any facility or conveyance is permitted except that ancillary equipment such as lights, reflectors or tripods may not be used. Members of the press holding valid identification issued by the New York City Police Department are hereby authorized to use necessary ancillary equipment. All photographic activity must be conducted in accordance with the provisions of this Part. " |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 21 12:51:20 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by FarRock on Thu Feb 21 11:36:05 2008. Ahhhh..So NOW we get to the REAL issue. He's a trouble maker..likes to Push the Rules to the limit. Uses a FLASH when the RULES CLEARLY SAY YOU CANNOT.... Typical foamer crap. |
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Re:WHO OWNS GRAND CENTRAL TERMINAL? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 12:53:24 2008, in response to Re:WHO OWNS GRAND CENTRAL TERMINAL?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 21 12:43:20 2008. Argent Ventures. They own most of the unliquidated assets from the Penn Central bankruptcy. The MTA leased the station from them in 1994, with an option to buy it (they almost certainly will). |
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Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 12:55:43 2008, in response to Re: NILET LIES TO US AND SCREWS UP?, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Feb 21 12:48:29 2008. Lights and flashes are not the same thing. Lights, reflectors and tripods are clearly "ancillary" equipment. Flashes are not. You shouldn't use flashes, but the law doesn't specifically outlaw their usage. |
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Re:WHO OWNS GRAND CENTRAL TERMINAL? |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Feb 21 12:57:08 2008, in response to Re:WHO OWNS GRAND CENTRAL TERMINAL?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 21 12:43:20 2008. Penn Central Corp and its successor the American Financial Group continued to own GCT and the surrounding trackage while leasing them to the MTA. In December 2006 Argent Ventures bought GCT from AFG (fmr. Penn Central).MTA does have an option to buy the terminal in 2017. Otherwise the lease extends through 2274. As for the improvements - the MTA is collecting rent from subleasing the retail space for one thing. It is just like any other commercial lease where the lessee makes whatever improvements they deem necessary to run their business... |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 21 12:57:27 2008, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— AGAIN!, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 21 12:51:20 2008. Uses a FLASH when the RULES CLEARLY SAY YOU CANNOT.... They clearly do not say any such thing. The ban on flash usage is based on an interpretation of the term "ancillary equipment" and basic common sense. Not a specific rule. |
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