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| Re: P Train Will Run In October (978851) | |
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| (978985) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 15 05:30:51 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Tue Sep 14 23:46:17 2010. LOL!!! |
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| (978986) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 15 05:32:28 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 15 03:12:28 2010. And that track is long gone anyway (as well as the station it served). |
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| (978991) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Sep 15 07:06:45 2010, in response to P Train Will Run In October, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 14 20:25:35 2010. Thanks, I can't wait to take a (P) !Bill Newkirk |
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| (978992) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Sep 15 07:13:18 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 14 21:42:38 2010. I heard that it will run non-stop.Non-stop, between Jamaica Center and 34th and 8th ? Bill Newkirk |
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| (979004) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 08:20:40 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Sep 14 21:53:37 2010. Send the F local or express-on-local so the E & P get D2 & D4 without having to deal with the F on the mainline. |
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| (979005) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 08:21:08 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by R32_3671 on Wed Sep 15 03:28:08 2010. Doubtful they will transfer the R32s there. Most likely be R160s. |
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| (979010) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 08:32:36 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 08:20:40 2010. Well, why inconvience subway riders tho? It isn't even an NYCT issue. The F is long as it is. I think the routing they chose is best as it doesn't interefere that much. |
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| (979015) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by GIS Man on Wed Sep 15 08:47:21 2010, in response to P Train Will Run In October, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 14 20:25:35 2010. Link?Bob |
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| (979020) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Sep 15 09:18:56 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 08:32:36 2010. Well, why inconvience subway riders tho?A few years ago the TA decided to suspend service between Main St and Willets Pt for a weekend. Alternate "service" was to be provided by an LIRR shuttle between Shea Stadium and Flushing-Main St. Regular LIRR service was single tracked through the area. The bottleneck was the single narrow stairways leading to the platforms at both LIRR stations. The most LIRR could offer was 45 headways because of the time it took to load and unload the passengers. That 45 minute headway was so insufficient to the demand that riot police had to be called out to maintain order at both Main St and Willets Pt. A few months later, #7 service had to be suspended between Main St and Woodside. Mindful of the previous experience, the MTA pulled no punches and did things right. Wide temporary stairways were built to access the LIRR platforms at Main St. Part of a playground was commandeered to house a heated tent to serve as a waiting area (it was Jan/Feb). The additional service, provided between Main St and Penn Sta, reduced the weekend headway to 15 minutes. Fleets of buses were used to provide both local service and express service between Main St and Woodside. The riot police were on hand but were not required. I don't know if anybody ever totaled up the entire bill for that G.O. The potential exists for a similar situation to occur when all LIRR service is suspended west of Jamaica for a weekend. It will occur, if the alternate service is not capable of handling the increased demand. Unlike the Flushing situation, the MTA will not get another chance to get it right. Quite frankly, I don't believe that a non-stop special, limited by a J local train ahead of it, will hack it. BTW, if the TA is worried about the extra cost, the LIRR should reimburse them for the extra service. |
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| (979026) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 09:44:54 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Sep 15 09:18:56 2010. Ok I see your point, but still think the J routing is better as QBlvd is more prone to be jacked up. At least with the J routing the P only has to deal with one line during the main stretch of the route, whereas if it went over the E it would have 3 lines to compete with. |
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| (979032) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 09:56:40 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 09:44:54 2010. Why have the P in the first place? Why not just run the E every 3-4 minutes all weekend long along its full route making all regular stops? |
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| (979034) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Wed Sep 15 09:58:06 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 09:56:40 2010. Where will the extra trains turn? Don't you think there'd be too much service along Eighth Avenue then? |
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| (979035) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 10:00:00 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by LRG5784 on Wed Sep 15 09:58:06 2010. Jamaica and WTC. Yes, there might be some extra service, but nothing is perfect. How often is the P going to run? |
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| (979036) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Sep 15 10:00:38 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 09:56:40 2010. Agreed! They have no problem having the E and F trains run local most weekends so they could easily beef up E train service and have F trains run local on Queens Blvd. |
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| (979037) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Wed Sep 15 10:02:32 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Sep 15 10:00:38 2010. The (F) is too long of a route to be local. |
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| (979038) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Sep 15 10:04:59 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by LRG5784 on Wed Sep 15 10:02:32 2010. I agree, it is too long of a route, but the MTA doesn't seem to care. It seems like every other night and weekend it's running local. |
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| (979040) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Sep 15 10:08:48 2010, in response to P Train Will Run In October, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 14 20:25:35 2010. I wonder what the frequency of this (P) train will be. It can only run express in one direction in Brooklyn, unless East New York Master Tower is going to be "fluid", and make such decisions on the fly.Hey, maybe I'll get to work this. |
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| (979041) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 10:11:04 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Sep 15 10:04:59 2010. For one weekend, the planet won't tip over. It has run local many times in the past for GOs, and certainly will again. |
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| (979043) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 10:13:40 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Sep 15 10:08:48 2010. If they run it JC-JC, they're pretty much covered no matter what happens. LIRR pax could care less whether the train goes via QB or Bway as long as it gets them to Penn or Jamaica without a hassle. |
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| (979045) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Sep 15 10:16:47 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 14 21:42:38 2010. So its not a the local PP?(Just had to...) |
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| (979046) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Sep 15 10:19:27 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Sep 15 07:13:18 2010. Non-stop, between Jamaica Center and 34th and 8th ?Between Supthin Blvd and 34th and 8th.. |
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| (979047) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Sep 15 10:20:09 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Sep 15 10:08:48 2010. I will look for the G.O on TENS... |
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| (979049) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 10:26:54 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 09:56:40 2010. Because it is to substitute for no LIRR service past Jamaica, so it would be unfair to have their customers to have a ride with several stops. |
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| (979051) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 10:36:30 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 10:26:54 2010. OMFGWTFBBQ! Freedom at last from stopping at Forest Hills or Woodside! :p |
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| (979053) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Wed Sep 15 10:48:46 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Sep 14 20:32:48 2010. Been there, done that on a March of Dimes Fan-Trip several years ago. Started at Chambers Street out to Parsons, back via J and Chrystie Street and up either 6th or 8th back out to Parsons and a quick spin through the JAM yard before returning to 34th. I bailed at 74/Roosevelt to catch the LIRR at Woodside. |
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| (979055) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 10:53:04 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 10:26:54 2010. But some intermediate stops may help people get where they actually want to go faster. How many LIRR riders end their trips within walking distance of 34/8? |
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| (979057) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Sep 15 11:02:54 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 10:53:04 2010. But some intermediate stops may help people get where they actually want to go faster. How many LIRR riders end their trips within walking distance of 34/8?Then they take the Apple,Charlie or Echo @ 34th and 8th... Simple... |
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| (979058) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Wed Sep 15 11:03:16 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Sep 15 10:04:59 2010. I agree, but for regular service it's best that the (F) remains express throughout the course of the day and the week. |
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| (979059) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Wed Sep 15 11:04:01 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 10:00:00 2010. Dunno.... |
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| (979061) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 11:11:25 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 10:53:04 2010. This is a service for the LIRR folks who would normally not have stops bet. Jamaica & NYP, and since Woodside isn't bet. there it should be non-stop |
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| (979063) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Sep 15 11:23:41 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 09:56:40 2010. Why have the P in the first place? Why not just run the E every 3-4 minutes all weekend long along its full route making all regular stops?Because the Jamaica Center terminal of the E train can only handle about 12tph, thanks to a poorly-located switch. Running 15-20tph on the E isn't going to help LIRR riders much if 3-8tph of them have to run to 179/Hillside. It will be interesting to see how they implement the P train. I wonder whether there will be any counter-peak service at the Broadway El local stations: it would be operationally simpler to tell counter-peak riders to transfer at Broadway Junction, Myrtle, or Marcy. |
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| (979068) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Sep 15 11:29:34 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Sep 15 11:23:41 2010. I wonder whether there will be any counter-peak service at the Broadway El local stations: it would be operationally simpler to tell counter-peak riders to transfer at Broadway Junction, Myrtle, or Marcy.Its supposed to run non stop from 34th and 8th to Supthin Blvd im guessing in both directions. |
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| (979071) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 11:35:29 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 11:11:25 2010. I get that. But as long as you are forcing everyone on to the subway, might there be harm in adding stops in other potentially popular destinations? I'm not necessarily saying they should, and I understand the point of the P, but I'm posing the question for people to think about. |
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| (979073) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 11:37:49 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 11:35:29 2010. No I understand. It would be an interesting idea, but think the LIRR pax would bitch to no end if folks boarded 'their trains' esp. after the HALL issue too. |
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| (979074) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Dekatyou on Wed Sep 15 11:38:03 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Sep 15 11:23:41 2010. You guys mention E and F , but DO NOT FORGET R TRAINS.(Same Queens BLVD local train!)I never heard all E,F, and R trains going local on weekend. I understand P via J because it has un-used center track. (Only M train is sitting at Mytle Av). It can be passing local J trains. For Woodside, alternate is 7 train. 7 to Jackson Heights, then transfer to E to Jamaica. (Kew Gardens and Forest Hills, using E train.) (or operating extra train between Flusing and Penn for Woodside customers.) |
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| (979076) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Sep 15 11:43:32 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 11:35:29 2010. I'm sure that was disscussed. I guess they feel the way its going to go is the best. Decision is made,then again this is the MTA. When it comes out on TENS I shall see. |
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| (979077) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 11:44:47 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 11:37:49 2010. Fair enough. I'm wondering how frequent the P will be. If it is relatively infrequent, then going non-stop has merit. If it runs often, then I think it might as well make selected stops. |
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| (979080) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 12:12:33 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Sep 15 11:44:47 2010. That is true. I imagine but no proof that it will run at least every 10 minutes given LIRR headways but it is just a guess. |
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| (979082) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by joe c on Wed Sep 15 12:27:27 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by R32_3671 on Wed Sep 15 05:09:39 2010. It'll likely be R160s,they can be programmed and plus money doesn't have to be wasted on transferring cars when there are cars ready and able in the east.til next time |
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| (979096) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 13:10:27 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 12:12:33 2010. IIRC, it was brought up in one of the Amtrak strike discussions back on SubTalk in 1999 or 2000, the Penn Specials could only be 4 or 5 TPH during peak because of dwell time and the resulting monumental fustercluck on 8th Av that would result whether they turned at Penn or deadheaded uptown (the latter being less desirable because it would require more trainsets to make up for the additional 40-50 minutes needed for uptown moves).At the time, Queensbridge was still a terminal so a few additional specials could have been possible if they were sent there instead of 8th Av. There were also going to be a few "super express" E runs that wouldn't have stopped until Manhattan. |
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| (979101) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Randyo on Wed Sep 15 13:21:32 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Sep 15 05:04:32 2010. They can't use any kind of 600' trains due to station constraints in the Eastern Division and they certainly can't use any 75' cars there either. Whatever type of car is used, it will have to be trains of 8 X 60' cars. AFGAIK, the R-32s were equipped with P signs for the last time P service was supposed to run but in all likelihood, it will be R-160s used since most of the M fleet will be laid up for the weekend and available. |
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| (979103) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 13:25:21 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 13:10:27 2010. Ok that makes sense. 4-5 TPH would work out to be every 12-15 minutes. I still think IMO they did it right this time w/J routing as they only have to deal w/1 other line for the main stretch of the route. |
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| (979115) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Sep 15 14:21:10 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Railman718 on Wed Sep 15 11:29:34 2010. I'm wondering whether they will make the J run express on the local too in one direction so as not to get in the way of the P. |
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| (979123) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Sep 15 14:27:40 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Sep 15 14:21:10 2010. No they wont do that.They run Light trains all the time from Parsons and since this one wont be stopping anyplace else in Queens or Brooklyn and they have J 3/4 track from Bway Junction to use. The J runs 10 minute headways on weekends anyway. |
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| (979124) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 14:42:43 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 13:25:21 2010. It would mix with 3 or 4 lines no matter how you slice it: J on the el, F, and E/C on 8th Av (unless the C gets suspended that weekend).Running it JC-JC would eliminate the need for deadheading uptown (or the plugging that would occur if they turn at Penn). Crew and equipment costs wouldn't be all that different, but they would have better overall coverage with less crowding since trains would be running in service along two routes, not just one. Like I said earlier in this thread and older discussions, LIRR pax could care less whether they're going Queens Blvd or the el as long as they can get to and from Manhattan. I don't know what the weekend LIRR volume is like these days (it was just a bare fraction of weekdays when I lived up there 25 years ago), but I would think they would not need more than 4 or 5 tph between, say, 9AM and 9PM. That should easily fit in with regular E and J weekend headways. So what if the F has to run on the local track for a weekend? Making the local stops on QB will add a whopping 6 minutes to the trip time. Boo hoo. |
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| (979126) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 15:17:03 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 14:42:43 2010. No, I meant for the biggest stretch from Sutphin to Essex would just be the J it would be with, whereas on QB it would have the E/F/R on the biggest stretch.Don't get me wrong I think it would be very cool to see a line going from JC to JC, but w/QB it is very easy to get jacked up. |
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| (979127) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 15 15:18:34 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 15 05:32:28 2010. Yep ... that was the "waiting to happen" if only. :) |
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| (979140) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by R38 4149 on Wed Sep 15 16:33:59 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Dekatyou on Wed Sep 15 11:38:03 2010. E, F and R trains frequently run all local from Queens Plaza/Queensbridge to Forest Hills nearly every weekend now. |
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| (979141) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by error46146 on Wed Sep 15 16:44:56 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Dekatyou on Wed Sep 15 11:38:03 2010. they do this all the time with the E/F/R Local..they actually stopped doing it this weekend lol |
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| (979142) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by error46146 on Wed Sep 15 16:45:26 2010, in response to P Train Will Run In October, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 14 20:25:35 2010. Interesting.. |
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