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| (1538477) | |
Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 17 10:10:26 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Feb 17 00:03:58 2020. I agree that closing the asylums wasn't the solution to abusive staff. I was just objecting to your prettification of the asylums. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Mon Feb 17 10:47:15 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 17 10:10:26 2020. Oh, I'm sure they were not pretty. They were also not all Dickensian 3rd circles of hell. Reports of things are never equal to the thing; what gets press reports are sensational examples or what makes a story some outlet wants to tell. Prettyfication or catastrophizing get promoted, the complex yet boring reality of most things doesn't.No place which is populated by the insane in need of confinement is going to be fun. It's not going to be a desirable work environment, how would you, me or J. Average react after a few years of working in one, where as the responsible parties we catch it for anything that goes wrong? |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Feb 17 12:06:56 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 17 10:10:26 2020. Some years ago I read that skells fall into three approximately equal categories, with of course some overlap: one third mentally ill, one third addicted, one third completely down on their luck. It's my impression that the ones in the subway and train stations tend to be more in the mentally ill category. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by snarf368 on Mon Feb 17 12:45:51 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 15 10:48:24 2020. Broadway Lion said "it is deballsio who must keep the homeless out"AIM said "NYPD doesn't police GCT." What DeBlasio does or doesn't do has an affect on GCT regardless of who polices the facility. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 17 15:22:18 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by snarf368 on Mon Feb 17 12:45:51 2020. As I alluded to in another post, if the homeless presence in GCT is even remotely a violation of any sort of federal statute, since M/N and its facilities are under federal oversight through the FRA M/N police may be able to do what NYPD can’t or won’t. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Feb 17 15:50:02 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 17 15:22:18 2020. The MTA is hiring hundreds of additional officers right now, with a primary focus on the subways. It is a hot button issue in NYC. Enforcement in public access areas open for use by anyone, not just customers or employees of the railroad is a whole different universe than RR admin code and laws, since most loitering and vagrancy laws are unenforceable, and although their presence is objectionable to many people, it presents no operational or safety challenge to the railroad. If you want more control, you have to create access restrictions, like the "ticketed passengers only" waiting areas in many stations. But if you want to turn a public (not private) space into a food court and shopping mall, this is the end result. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Feb 17 16:51:10 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 15 11:40:29 2020. Reminds me of an article and debate I saw about Downtown Austin yesterday. What was the most happening place in the nation no one will set foot in now. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Feb 17 23:45:10 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 15 09:21:03 2020. There are plenty of homeless-looking people on the LL sitting at tables at 7:30am on weekday mornings. Doesn't bother me as I'm not looking to sit at a table at that time. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 09:53:29 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Feb 17 23:45:10 2020. I looked this morning at 9:00 on the lower level. I saw a total of 3 likely homeless people, comporting themselves decently, and dozens of obvious actual customers. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Feb 18 09:57:09 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 15 20:56:53 2020. My point is that I have little sympathy for a bunch of high end Apple Store type retailers who exist to fleece wealthy suburbanites rushing towards their trains.Fun fact, Penn Station's 24/7 status had made it a homeless camp for decades and there is plenty of retail. As a consumer I don't give one flying fuck that retailer A might loose money and be replaced by retailer B. The whole point of the free market system is that the risk is placed not on the state/taxpayer, but the business owners. Increasing homeless is a business risk, just like a recession or Marvel style alien attack. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Feb 18 09:58:27 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 16 10:20:43 2020. Penn Station says otherwise. Plenty of vendors and they give you a nice brown paper bag to go with your beer. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Feb 18 10:06:22 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 15 17:13:56 2020. Is that requirement limited to within 15 days? Usually a lot of this would be settled out of court and there would be no need to ever release that info.That's the point, innocent people are bullied into accepting a plea without a realistic opportunity to confront their accuser. They can stay in jail, loose their job, loose their house and loose their family or plead guilty and get some non-jail punishment that has steep backside consequences when it comes to background checks or social benefits or who knows what else. You are literally advocating for a legal system that uses the testimony from secret informants to send people to jail. Either way I can assure you I am never going to witness a crime in NY. Note: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. You can choose to participate in the criminal justice system or not, but the alternative is literally un-American. Truth is that eye-witness testimony is already notoriously unreliable, so the replacement by cell phone and CCTV video is a welcome change. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 10:07:33 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Feb 18 09:57:09 2020. high end Apple Store type retailersThat is not the character of GCT's lower level. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Feb 18 10:09:21 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Feb 15 18:40:06 2020. I would still suspect that north of 90% of all murders are still "drug related" (the stat was somewhere around 96% around 2010). Don't sell drugs? Don't use drugs? The chance of being killed vanishingly small. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 10:46:14 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 10:07:33 2020. IDWTP. Those eateries are significantly fancier than at Penn. I’d never eat at GCT but I’ve often eaten at Penn. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 10:53:08 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 10:46:14 2020. Those eateries are significantly fancier than at Penn.Huh? Chirping chicken? Zaros? Slightly fancier, yes. Not high end. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 10:58:23 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 10:53:08 2020. Yes. It’s fast food, at high end prices. Total waste. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 18 11:06:07 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Feb 18 09:57:09 2020. I think there's are big differences though. In Penn, the retailers are occupying what are basically storefronts, so they can lock up at the end of the day or be more restrictive towards homeless people wandering in. In GCT's lower level, the vendors are partly or wholly open stands, so they have to deal with the homeless, up close and personal. Note that I don't think the Apple store is too bothered by the homeless. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 11:11:54 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 18 11:06:07 2020. Why not? |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 18 11:15:07 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 11:11:54 2020. The upper level has fewer homeless, and I believe it is a storefront. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 18 11:16:37 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 11:11:54 2020. Also, getting to it is a bit more prohibitive than the LL vendors. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 11:53:46 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 10:53:08 2020. Shake Shack is pretty good! Yes it's only fast food, but compare it to McDonalds etc. Night vs day, and Shakey's serves beer. Not just any beer, but beer chosen/created to go with their food AND the time of year. McBurgerBox don't do that. There's also a place that serves coffee you can drink black. Yeah, you need 2-3 minutes extra to let it cool, that's your walk to the train. Same place sells rolls/croissants etc not crusted with sugar. that's Irving, if I recall.That of course is nothing unusual, but compare it to the usual train/bus station fare. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 11:57:11 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 09:53:29 2020. 9 am, they haven't left their shelters, and many are not yet awake. Try again at 2 pm, then 7. Right around rush hour they may prefer to be elsewhere. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by pragmatist on Tue Feb 18 12:15:53 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 11:57:11 2020. Outside temperature and weather are major influencers as well. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 12:18:02 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 11:57:11 2020. The article referenced 5:30 PM. I'll try to take a look then. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 12:18:35 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Feb 18 09:57:09 2020. "My point is that I have little sympathy for a bunch of high end Apple Store type retailers who exist to fleece wealthy suburbanites rushing towards their trains."That's not how you build a functioning society. "F it all except me" x everyone, and you get the bad days of new york at first. If it stays unchecked, the fun get real. The same 'tude in other bodies: "My point is that I have little sympathy for a bunch of |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Feb 18 12:24:35 2020, in response to Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Dave on Sat Feb 15 06:49:41 2020. Welcome to the Democrat's New York. They worked hard to bring this all back. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 12:45:37 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Feb 18 10:06:22 2020. There was already pre-trial discovery where counsel for each side sees the cards to be played by the other."Confronting witnesses" means to confront them during a public trial, not when they get home from work a bit after dark. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 12:50:13 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 12:18:02 2020. I've haven't been into GCT in some time, so I'm curious what you find. I expect there's some effort to make things look normal during rush hour while the public is watching. But maybe that's now considered an old, privileged, SomeNewBuzzword notion. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 13:12:23 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 18 11:15:07 2020. It isn’t though. It occupies an open area on the East Balcony. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 13:17:39 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 12:50:13 2020. Most of the seating areas aren't really on a direct line from the gates to the subway or the streets. So the commuting public aren't going to see homeless people sitting at tables. It will only be people trying to eat a meal they bought from one of the restaurants there. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 13:22:41 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 12:45:37 2020. You have to know who the witness is before trial, because otherwise you’ll have nothing to confront them with. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 18 13:28:32 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 12:18:35 2020. "My point is that I have little sympathy for a bunch of high end Apple Store type retailers who exist to fleece wealthy suburbanites rushing towards their trains."Thats how they pay their high end rent. With the assumption that "wealthy suburbanites" are at an above average intelligence level, they should be consumer savy enough to skip shopping there where they should know going in that the prices are at an almost rip-off high level, homeless problem or not. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 18 13:35:13 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 13:12:23 2020. If it's an open area, then maybe. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Feb 18 14:10:32 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 18 11:15:07 2020. While I'm not familiar with the Apple Store in GCT, if it's like other ones it wouldn't have seating and therefore wouldn't attrat skells. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 15:04:29 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Feb 18 14:10:32 2020. Apple stores have seats. They’re of the high stool variety. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Feb 18 15:42:43 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 15 20:56:53 2020. hahaha, yeah, your zip code is the only one in America that is immune.No one in the country has ever moved their store, closed, and no city has ever gone bankrupt! |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Feb 18 15:44:16 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Feb 18 09:57:09 2020. It's your type of people that cry when entire shopping centers, malls, retail becomes nothing except for check cashing/pawn shops, and cell phone shops.Your post is insincere and full of crap. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 18 16:21:01 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 18 15:04:29 2020. "...high stool variety."With the homeless problem there I see a connection!! |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 18 21:36:32 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Feb 18 15:42:43 2020. WTF are you talking about?? "My zip code" & "No city has ever gone bankrupt"?? What does that have to do with homeless in GCT & merchants complaints & rents??You're grip on reality seems very week. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Feb 18 23:13:09 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 18 13:17:39 2020. Which is precisely why those restaurants are complaining.Even Penn Station does a better job at this, mainly because the seating areas are not shared like a mall food court. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 19 09:20:59 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Feb 18 23:13:09 2020. Which is precisely why those restaurants are complaining.Whatever they were complaining about wasn't visible to me at 9:15 or 5:15 yesterday. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Feb 19 09:48:36 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Feb 18 23:13:09 2020. There are major legal differences between a seating area controlled by a private operator or tenant, and a food court style public seating area in a public facility. |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 19 10:20:08 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by pragmatist on Wed Feb 19 09:48:36 2020. And for what it's worth, there are no signs in the GCT food areas saying "seating is only for patrons of the restaurants."And the homeless people I saw there were comporting themselves properly, so they weren't violating any general GCT or MNRR rules of behavior. |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 19 10:35:37 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Feb 18 10:09:21 2020. 96%? That sounds very much on the high side. But even if it's "only" 75%, that is still a very good reason that ending the War on Drugs will save many lives. Some pols are starting to realize that, but too few, too slowly. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 19 10:48:38 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 19 10:35:37 2020. You still have people who somehow believe that selling drugs is worse than SELLING A SENATE SEAT. |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 19 11:11:29 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Feb 18 11:53:46 2020. When places boast about how "local" they are, that is a kind of snob appeal, and they are telegraphing the fact that the food is likely to be more expensive than it needs to be. For these reasons, I tend to avoid eating there unless absolutely necessary. There are a few places at GCT that are not too bad, meaning only minimally more expensive than places that are not trying to project that "we're quality and other places aren't" vibe. But the MTA really shouldn't be requiring and promoting that attitude. Let "the usual train/bus station fare" be available too. Your mention of "Night vs day" made me think of those relief images at Penn Station, which are right next to the McDonald's. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 19 11:19:45 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 19 10:48:38 2020. Well, in defense of that argument, consider that at least when Blago realized was at risk of being apprehended, he didn't order all the witnesses to his misdeed to be killed. :) |
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Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 19 11:40:54 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 19 11:19:45 2020. True, but if he did he would have been convicted of murder. I was comparing it to drug dealers who didn't commit murder or manslaughter. |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Feb 19 12:42:32 2020, in response to Re: Business Owners In Grand Central Terminal Say Homeless Population Is Taking Over, posted by AlM on Wed Feb 19 10:20:08 2020. "And the homeless people I saw there were comporting themselves properly, so they weren't violating any general GCT or MNRR rules of behavior."Did you have two sets of notebooks while you were creeping on them? |
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