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| (1341998) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Mar 2 12:13:47 2015, in response to DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 12:02:47 2015. Asshat politicians and incompetent project managers....a deadly combination! |
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| (1342007) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 2 12:55:38 2015, in response to DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 12:02:47 2015. D.C. Councilwoman Mary Cheh, D-Ward 3Liberals hate streetcars. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1342010) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:00:18 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 2 12:55:38 2015. Light rail / streetcars are locally influenced initiatives that defy party lines, whatever some zealots who don't deal with transit personally might express.I would imagine Ms. Cheh may feel her toes or her political prerogatives might be compromised in the streetcar project. Just because D.C. is the nation's capital doesn't mean its local politics is immune from old-fashioned machine corruption and local tyrants. |
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| (1342011) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 2 13:00:29 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 2 12:55:38 2015. Would that include Cato Institute ?They hate anything on steel wheels. |
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| (1342012) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:02:38 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 2 13:00:29 2015. True enough, and I've had some discussion with their transportation guy, who at least acknowledges that free highways are kind of, well, socialist. |
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| (1342013) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:08:17 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:02:38 2015. My experience is that Libertarians (cap L) sort of feel that automobiles are the epitome of personal freedom. Notwithstanding that they provide a way of tracking our every movement. I think they might rethink their positions a bit if transit hadn't become such a government function rather than its historic role as a private enterprise.The late (sadly) prominent conservative Paul Weyrich was very effective in demonstrating that conservatism and rail transportation are not at odds. |
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| (1342014) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 2 13:16:52 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Dave on Mon Mar 2 12:13:47 2015. hey, the vendors, builders, consultants and all of their cronies got their checks. What else is important? |
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| (1342016) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:22:20 2015, in response to DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 12:02:47 2015. If the streetcar doesn't happen, H Street will not wither and die. It may even be safer.Oh really? And when a future streetcar line is proposed with an eye development, will people trust it? |
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| (1342017) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 2 13:24:08 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:08:17 2015. Weyrich was an interesting case. He seemed to be a railfan but was on most other issues very far right. His website once ran an article explaining why conservatives should support commuter rail--gave dad an easy way to the paycheck in the city, meant the family only needed one car for mom to use ferrying the children and tending the house. He was BTW on Amtrak'sboard and while there pushed for the conversion of a Metroliner car to have a rolling conference room--wonder where that car ended up. |
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| (1342020) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Mon Mar 2 13:30:16 2015, in response to DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 12:02:47 2015. "I think it's fair to say that the entire streetcar program as was originally perhaps envisioned is possibly not going to happen," D.C. Councilwoman Mary Cheh, D-Ward 3, said Friday on WAMU's Politics Hour.I don't see how what she said is what all of you seem to think she said. |
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| (1342021) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 2 13:40:28 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:00:18 2015. I pointed out the party affiliation just to rile the libs up. I know there are libs in both parties. And I deem liberals to be against streetcars now as they were in the past—they've doubled down on buses versus rail projects ever since "light rail" made a comeback here. |
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| (1342022) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:40:44 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by TERRApin Station on Mon Mar 2 13:30:16 2015. You don't read much reading between the lines to note the threat.She uses her qualifiers "I think it's fair"; "originally perhaps"; "possibly not" as smokescreen for her clear political view. |
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| (1342024) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 2 13:41:45 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:08:17 2015. Not sure if the libertarians are about that. I haven't seen too many of them (although I admit to seeing some of them at least) being proponents of putting the interstate highway system in private hands. |
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| (1342025) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:46:24 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 2 13:41:45 2015. The ones who tend to actually pay attention to the subject see the private / pay highway issue as important if not their main focus. |
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| (1342026) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 2 13:55:02 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:46:24 2015. they are in favor of "Lexus lanes". Of course they would not be willing to pay the full cost of driving(a mileage share of the DOD rathole to cover the cost of protecting our "friends" in the middle east) |
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| (1342029) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Mar 2 14:02:19 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:40:44 2015. I don't know about "political view." A reporter was pressing her for a definitive statement. Here it is on video. |
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| (1342031) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 2 14:08:16 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 2 13:24:08 2015. The Metroliner conference car is still around, though its controls in the cab have been stripped out. |
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| (1342033) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 2 14:23:34 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Olog-hai on Mon Mar 2 13:40:28 2015. But Cato "doubles down" on buses too. Are they Limo Libruls ?"There are two alternatives to rebuilding the subways. The drastic alternative is to simply let the city fend for itself without subways. A more realistic alternative would be to convert the subways into underground busways. Electric buses could move just about as many people as the subways do with far less infrastructure. " And these idiots were referring to NYC. http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=7092 |
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| (1342034) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 14:24:07 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Mar 2 14:02:19 2015. Thank you for that. I rest my case. |
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| (1342036) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 14:27:40 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 2 14:23:34 2015. Cato is a playground of ingenuous "planners."I found the staff at Reason Magazine a bit more capable of engagement. And yes, that Antiplanner piece is moronic. |
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| (1342037) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 2 14:30:39 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 14:27:40 2015. As a commenter said, public transit toward NY, such as the Lincoln Tunnel, is just a matter of physics and capacity, not politics. |
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| (1342039) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Mon Mar 2 14:32:01 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:40:44 2015. Huh? I think you're saying that the whole project will be abandoned but that isn't necessarily supported by what she said. |
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| (1342040) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 14:40:00 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 2 14:30:39 2015. I just realized you posted a piece from RANDAL O’TOOLE.His work is wholly made of glib assertions and invented facts, like "New York is the only city where more people are transported on a rail track than on a highway lane." CATO should be embarrassed to post it, and you should be embarrassed to link it, even as a bad example. Think of posting something wholesome, like the advantages of being in a closed room of angry skunks. |
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| (1342042) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 14:42:16 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by TERRApin Station on Mon Mar 2 14:32:01 2015. That's where she's headed. Look at the video that is the source of the quote posted by Sir Kevin von Midwout and you will see the tap dance live. |
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| (1342044) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Mon Mar 2 14:51:15 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 14:42:16 2015. I'm only talking about what was in the OP. |
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| (1342046) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 15:09:29 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by TERRApin Station on Mon Mar 2 14:51:15 2015. And I thought the OP demonstrated her feelings toward the streetcar system as a whole. Her statement was ingenuous. |
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| (1342048) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Mon Mar 2 15:28:00 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 15:09:29 2015. And I disagree. I think her statement could be saying that the whole thing might not get built/open for service, but part of it still will get built/open for service. That seems to make sense considering that part of it HAS already been built... |
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| (1342050) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Mar 2 15:36:28 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 2 13:16:52 2015. Amen! |
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| (1342056) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Mar 2 16:32:59 2015, in response to DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 12:02:47 2015. The H Street streetcars are still running, but not carrying any passengers.So the system has been built, the vehicles are there, operators have been hired. They just aren't picking up passengers yet, for some reason? And possibly, they won't? What would happen to all the new infrastructure and equipment if they don't? No matter how screwed up the politics are, a system that is built and ready to go won't simply be scrapped. (Unless there is something seriously wrong with it, but no one is saying there is.) Yeah, there is the example from the early 20th century of the Steinway Tunnels never being used for the streetcar line they were built for. They wound up eventually being used for something better, but not for a number of years. But something like that won't happen with tracks that are right out in the open where people will see them every day. The line will open. |
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| (1342062) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Mar 2 17:36:10 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 2 13:55:02 2015. Whoever would wind up in control of the Mideast oilfields in the absence of our military misadventures would surely still be willing to sell oil to us, because keeping it in the ground really won't benefit them, and selling it will. So calling the costs of war part of the "full cost" of oil really doesn't hold up. And then there is domestic production. |
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| (1342063) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Mar 2 17:40:58 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 13:40:44 2015. Given that this is the DC Streetcar system as originally conceived: ...I think Terp's interpretation is the more correct one. Not building the entire network is a distinct possibility, but the H Street line's future is far more assured. |
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| (1342064) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 2 17:43:10 2015, in response to DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Mon Mar 2 12:02:47 2015. So-after years of construction and testing- they may abandon the project ? How freaking absurd... |
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| (1342075) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Mar 2 19:35:49 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 2 17:43:10 2015. It's worth mentioning that the conclusion offered in the subject is wholly the interpretation of the OP, and that there is a much more likely explanation which does not leave the H St. line a wasted investment. IMO it's much more likely we won't hear talk of crating a streetcar system despite their grand plans. But over time if the H St. line proves successful we'LL probably hear about additional lines. |
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| (1342077) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 2 20:01:47 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Mar 2 17:36:10 2015. I beg to differ. The Med Fleet and whatever ships hover at the mouth of the Persian Gulf are not free. The cost of them should be directly in the cost of petroleum products or, even better, they should be withdrawn. |
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| (1342078) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 2 20:04:36 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by WillD on Mon Mar 2 19:35:49 2015. Exactly my point. The OP doesn't understand it. |
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| (1342097) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 2 23:59:09 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 2 17:43:10 2015. So-after years of construction and testing- they may abandon the project ? How freaking absurd...Actually the construction was originally suppose to be a total rehabilitation of the curbs, gutters, sidewalks, streets and underground utilities along H Street and Benning Road from 1st Street to Oklahoma Avenue NE. The District of Columbia decided to also add streetcars tracks to the rehabilitation project with no clear plan as to what the ultimate goal was going to be. After the rehabilitation they the modified one section to accommodate the connection to the carbarn and crossovers at both ends to accommodate the changing of direction, both were built as projects separate from the street rehabilitation. The DC streetcar startup project was original suppose to be in Anacostia. That one was built much like the H Street Benning Road rehabilitation project. The difference being is they still have not settled on where the stop is going to be near the south entrance to the Anacostia Metrorail station and where the south terminal is going be along South Capitol Street. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1342103) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 3 01:19:29 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Mar 2 16:32:59 2015. But something like that won't happen with tracks that are right out in the open where people will see them every day.I dunno, hasn't worked for Philly's Rt 23 :). |
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| (1342111) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Mar 3 03:54:26 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 2 20:01:47 2015. better, they should be withdrawn.No argument there. But counting the expense as part of the price of oil? No. |
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| (1342115) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 06:40:54 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 2 20:01:47 2015. Protecting trade routes and shipping is part of the legitimate security concerns of every major power on earth, and into antiquity. |
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| (1342117) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 3 07:18:47 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 2 20:04:36 2015. Bump. |
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| (1342132) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 10:26:05 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by WillD on Mon Mar 2 17:40:58 2015. But that's one line. Dumping the rest of it is big news. That's the issue. |
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| (1342133) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Jace on Tue Mar 3 10:47:53 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 10:26:05 2015. She didn't say the whole system will be dumped (or that H Street will be abandoned) just that the overall plan will be reassessed. This means two things: first it's a warning to the project people that the H Street problems have not gone unnoticed and that there may very well be changes in how the next lines are built. Secondly, and more importantly, it's a test to see who cries the most for the next lines. If no one raises a stink about dropping a line, or the rest of the system for that matter, then guess what will happen. |
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| (1342147) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 3 12:56:15 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 06:40:54 2015. yes, imperial democracies like Athens for an ancient example. One of the causes of the Peloponnesian War. |
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| (1342150) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 3 13:05:44 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Mar 3 03:54:26 2015. Well, we disagree. As long as the anti transit crowd keeps whining about subsidies, we need to remind them of the free ride they get. |
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| (1342154) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 13:31:52 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 3 12:56:15 2015. So? |
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| (1342155) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 13:33:01 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 3 13:05:44 2015. Transit systems are sun and wind powered? Not since ferries were wind driven. |
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| (1342159) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 3 13:40:52 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 13:33:01 2015. FWIW BART buys some wind generated electricity and years ago Bonneville hydro power. In general, CA is heading for 25-30% renewables while we consistently use fewer kwh/resident that all the other states despite server farms, A/C in housing etc. |
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| (1342168) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 14:13:56 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 3 13:40:52 2015. Is the actual power used produced by wind? I know of a situation where a building can get LEED certification not because the ACTUAL power was renewably produced (it wouldn't be practical) but credits were obtained from other projects that were from solar. |
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| (1342169) | |
Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen' |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Mar 3 14:15:05 2015, in response to Re: DC Streetcar 'possibly not going to happen', posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 3 01:19:29 2015. Yet. I hope. |
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