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| Re: P Train Will Run In October (978851) | |
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| (979286) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Sep 15 22:12:53 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Sep 15 20:10:47 2010. Bright cloudiness is even better! No shadows in any direction... |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Wed Sep 15 22:25:43 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 22:05:00 2010. Or that the "P" would probably be 4-5tph.But you don't know that for sure. None of us do. That and you're basing that on your observations from 20+ years ago. Weekend LIRR ridership is rather plentiful. It's not as much as it is during the peaks, but there's a sizeable amount. |
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| (979297) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 15 22:40:58 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 20:26:10 2010. Why do you constantly flip flop back and forth? I already told you he was using faulty reasoning. What in the world did he possibly just say that made you forget that he's using faulty reasoning and all the sudden think that he's totally right again??? |
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| (979298) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 15 22:41:14 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Sep 15 20:16:36 2010. No, you ARE wrong. |
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| (979305) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:02:07 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 15 22:40:58 2010. Because I realized it is a waste of money and time to run the P empty from 34/8 to 145 when they can have it in a loop shuttling LIRR riders to/from |
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| (979310) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 15 23:15:05 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:02:07 2010. But he's wrong. So you're wrong too. How come you always assume these armchair planners know "exactly" (in your words) what they are talking about and that there can't ever be some good reason or mitigating circumstance that perfectly explains why MTA/NYCT made some choice? Did you ever consider that maybe the extra services he proposed (either to QP or to Jamaica via a loop) are totally unnecessary and thus would actually be an even BIGGER waste of money than simply running trains lite up to 145 to turn them? Because he certainly didn't consider it! Because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Why do you believe people who have absolutely no credibility in the subject area they are ranting about? Tip: if someone starts talking about "huge wastes of money" and "MTA/NYCT never does anything right" without engaging in any kind of reasonable analysis of facts or educated assumptions then that someone is probably clueless and wrong. |
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| (979311) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:22:26 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 15 23:15:05 2010. Well, I will think of what you said, but I do agree running the loop might better keep things moving than running empty trains. |
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| (979315) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 15 23:25:35 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 20:25:48 2010. Exactly:This is why I would have the P do one of two things: 1. Continue in service to 145 (running express via the A after 34th before terminating on the lower level of 145) since it is scheduled to be deadheading that way anyhow. 2. Do the Jamaica Center Loop, running the E's normal weekday route after 34th going north in Manhattan and being the sole train terminating on JC upper level that weekend, with the P also replacing the E at Jamaica-Van Wyck and Sutphin as well as Jamaica Center for that weekend. The E would be re-routed to 179 in place of the F, while the F would be local in Queens and shortened to 71-Continental. |
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| (979317) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:29:15 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 15 23:25:35 2010. #1 would be ok I guess as it is better than running empty but does depend on turn around times, etc#2 I would let the P run non-stop to Kew Gardens and pax can get on to JC or xfer to E/F there for 179 and P goes express to JVW then SB & JC |
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| (979319) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 15 23:32:53 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:22:26 2010. But maybe, just maybe, there are additional factors to consider besides those you just listed!?!?!?!?! If it was so simple, so cut and dry, so black and white, then don't you think the professionals who are certainly much smarter than you or he in this area would have chosen the course of action that you and he see as superior? |
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| (979320) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Sep 15 23:38:26 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Edwards! on Wed Sep 15 20:03:41 2010. Ah, okay, I don't remember them there. Must have been the pre-GOH blue doored R32s? |
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| (979321) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Sep 15 23:39:17 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Edwards! on Wed Sep 15 20:03:41 2010. Did the L have them too? I can't remember them on the L either. |
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| (979322) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:40:07 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 15 23:32:53 2010. Who ever claimed the MTA planners are smart? It is something I think they should do but sadly they won't if you think I am wrong, fine that is up to you. I just think there are better options. |
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| (979324) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 15 23:42:59 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Sep 15 19:17:30 2010. Unless you have the P running in place of the E and running the complete Jamaica Center Loop (running via the J/F/C as planned to 34th from JC lower level, then via the E's regular weekday route to JC upper level) while the E replaces the F to 179 and the F, running local in Queens is shortened to 71-Continental, which is what I would do. |
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| (979325) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 15 23:46:32 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:29:15 2010. Actually:For your version of my #2 idea I would do that at Roosevelt and Kew Gardens since Roosevelt is the closest station to Woodside. I like the idea better of having the P running the E's regular route from 34th-JC upper, however, since then people along the way have their regular ride, even if it's with a different train from normal (and those wanting the E from JC upper can simply switch to that at Kew Gardens or anywhere else until 42nd. |
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| (979326) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:47:52 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 15 23:46:32 2010. That can work too |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Wed Sep 15 23:50:04 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Sep 15 22:41:14 2010. Its been already establish that you are wrong a lot of times. |
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| (979355) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by R32_3671 on Thu Sep 16 01:50:18 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Sep 15 19:18:29 2010. HELL YEAH LOL, FOAM |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by R32_3671 on Thu Sep 16 01:53:33 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by joe c on Wed Sep 15 12:27:27 2010. Nope, If they start to deadhead from 145, It would be smarter to use R32's, or both, ether way The R32's have the (P) sign. |
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| (979358) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Thu Sep 16 02:01:40 2010, in response to P Train Will Run In October, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 14 20:25:35 2010. I forgot already, which weekend is this LIRR shutdown supposed to take place? |
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| (979361) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Sep 16 02:50:10 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 15 23:42:59 2010. You sound like a broken record... |
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| (979362) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Sep 16 02:51:59 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Sep 15 19:17:30 2010. The J line can much easier absorb all the extra trains needed.I'm not surprised by this statement. Furthermore, depending on where you are going, the J line is actually faster, WITH STOPS, than the E train is. For example, if using Chambers St as a zero point, the J gets there faster than the E train. But that is with J/Z skip stop service. A more super express J would get to Penn almost as fast as the E would, and that line can absorb the extra trains needed, while the E can't. I want to see how this plays out, tough I'm not doubting what you are saying. I just wanted to explore other scenarios and to get a sense of what is realisitc. Seeing as this has never been done before, it is hard to judge now what the best way to do it could have been. |
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| (979368) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Sep 16 04:22:44 2010, in response to P Train Will Run In October, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 14 20:25:35 2010. Now that I am at the end (?) of this thread I would think that the P service would be better off relaying at Qns Plz 5 Tk regardless of where it actually discharges passengers since QPLz is closer to 34/8 than 145 St. |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 16 06:25:40 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:40:07 2010. Who ever claimed the MTA planners are smart? Any intelligent, educated person would claim such. The fact that you seem to be implying otherwise is quite sad. It is something I think they should do Again, based on faulty reasoning. but sadly they won't How in the heck do you know what they will or won't do? And "sadly"? You're sad they may be doing the right thing? I just think there are better options. Yet you have absolutely no concept of why those other options may or may not be better. You just like joining the bandwagon of uninformed people who falsely criticize NYCT. |
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| (979376) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 16 06:26:24 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:47:52 2010. How do you know it can work?? |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 16 06:38:37 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Randyo on Thu Sep 16 04:22:44 2010. But maybe there is a reason why 145th is better. |
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| (979386) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Sep 16 07:12:06 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Kriston Lewis on Wed Sep 15 22:25:43 2010. Why the hell is it that people see a number and jump all over it, in spite of it being stated that it was theoretical or illustrative? That was the number kicked around as the max for weekday peak if Amtrak had gone out and the TA had to fit in specials along with something resembling regular service on the J and 8th Av. If there's greater need, tweak the damn railroad to allow for more. However, the P is supposedly going to be a non-stop special only for LIRR passengers for one weekend. If service will only run via the Bway, they can just as easily take the regular E or J service and arrive at their destination sooner than if they wait for a train that in all likelihood will not pass its leader. Running it as a JC-JC loop, however, would allow for greater capacity while maximizing utilization of trains and crews. Service at Sutphin would effectively be doubled just by having trains serving both levels/routings. Deadheading to 145th would add a minimum of 40 minutes of wasted time for trains to get up there and back and would not provide this increased capability.This has absolutely nothing to do with whether Bway or QB is faster to Manhattan. It's all about being able to efficiently move the greatest number of anticipated additional riders for one weekend. And, there probably will be reduced ridership over a "normal" weekend because those making discretionary trips either won't or will drive to avoid the "inconvenience." |
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| (979388) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Thu Sep 16 07:14:30 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Randyo on Thu Sep 16 04:22:44 2010. 145/LL is further, but if you have the A running local that weekend the only thing you would have to contend with on the express tracks is the D north of 59th Street so the P train won't be stuck behind other services trying to get into 34/8 and then getting to Queens Plaza |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Thu Sep 16 07:26:11 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Gold_12th on Wed Sep 15 23:50:04 2010. Lol. |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Thu Sep 16 07:48:02 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 16 06:25:40 2010. First of all we are not talking about anything more than one's opinion, and IMHO they aren't very smart (the dept not an individual in particular let me make that clear) and it is your opinion I am wrong, that is fine you are entitled to your opinion. As I am entitled to mine. Let's face the truth here MTA has not had a very good track record. Want proof? Look at the several times there are investigations by city and state investigators (e.g. state comptroller's office), how many politicians rally against the way MTA acts. Now, with all that smoke there has to be a fire there. Note, I am not even including the media as they can be tainted but if you were to include the investigative reports by Fox5 & WPIX (WPIX's investigation has not been denied by MTA as Fox5's was) then there is fire.Again, it is my opinion that they should run the thing as a loop, but that is not a fact just my opinion which others share. Nothing more nothing less. |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Thu Sep 16 07:49:56 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 16 06:26:24 2010. It is gut instinct. One's gut can be right and can be wrong. But, I am of the belief that one needs to follow their gut instinct. Most of the times I have followed my gut instinct has been very positive, not right all the time when following it but right most of the time. |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Sep 16 08:45:58 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:47:52 2010. Its already be established that this train is running on the J Line.Queens Blvd should not even be in the equation.... |
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| (979405) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Thu Sep 16 08:48:35 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Railman718 on Thu Sep 16 08:45:58 2010. Yes I know :) Just expressing what it can or should be :)*Disclaimer it is my opinion :) |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Sep 16 08:50:03 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Thu Sep 16 08:48:35 2010. You mean "foaming" your opinion...:P |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Thu Sep 16 09:26:53 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Railman718 on Thu Sep 16 08:50:03 2010. Yes :) My floor is covered with foam :) |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 16 09:31:50 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Randyo on Wed Sep 15 18:30:54 2010. Nah, They could just go into service at 145th on Sat AM and end there Sunday PM. Run R32's down Jamaica EL rather than to Euclid. Really not a big deal. |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 16 09:40:18 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Dekatyou on Wed Sep 15 19:58:04 2010. Many Off-peak PATH trains are cattle cars even w/o NJT passengers.They have no load-factor/service standards, and if they do, they don't give a shit. |
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| (979437) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Sep 16 10:24:58 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 15 23:40:07 2010. A few people actually. I remember a post either here or on NYCTF saying that Operations and Planning is one of the better areas of the system, if not the best. |
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| (979451) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Thu Sep 16 10:44:22 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Sep 16 10:24:58 2010. Yes, I said in a later post that I did not think the individuals themselves weren't smart, but rather the dept as I and others have seen them do some dumb things, but hey it is my opinion and that is all. I cannot say it as fact if I implied it that way I apologize. Of course, some would say as an opinion that Ops & Planning is better than other depts. |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Thu Sep 16 10:46:29 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Thu Sep 16 07:48:02 2010. Operations Planning has nothing to do with the MTA/NYCT's finances. |
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| (979464) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by arnine on Thu Sep 16 11:11:55 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Thu Sep 16 10:46:29 2010. Yes and no. Their activities does cost MTA/NYCT to spend $$. Again, it is my opinion, as I said. |
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| (979507) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Sep 16 12:14:26 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by TheCiskoKid on Wed Sep 15 16:59:13 2010. The only things I can think of (speaking as a layman) are that "R 10" signs and 10 car stop markers would need to be installed in certain places.Earlier in this thread, I suggested that the Crescent Street pocket could be used as a passing siding for J trains, which would allow P trains to continue non-stop without getting stuck behind a J. It's obvious to me that the pocket cannot accommodate a 10-car train. |
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| (979509) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Sep 16 12:16:18 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Sep 15 19:07:09 2010. That's the closest line to the LIRR, so yeah. |
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| (979510) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Sep 16 12:17:35 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Hart Bus on Wed Sep 15 10:48:46 2010. Yeah, but this time, it would technically be regular service trains making the trek. |
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| (979513) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Sep 16 12:25:23 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by R32_3671 on Wed Sep 15 03:42:59 2010. I figure if extra R32 cars are needed for the P, the C could borrow some R68 trains from the B, or take some R44s or R46s from the A. |
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| (979560) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by R32_3671 on Thu Sep 16 14:17:38 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 16 09:31:50 2010. Agreed, Nobody see that picture, |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Sep 16 15:27:12 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by arnine on Thu Sep 16 10:44:22 2010. Please note, the department is called Operations Planning, There is NOT an "and" in the title of the department. That being said, I worked in the Operations Planning Dept for the last 11 years of my transit career and once the NYCTA started bringing in managers and other levels of planners who did not have the hands on experience that the rest of us had, the quality of planning in the agency deteriorated badly. What is even more unfortunate is that many of the managerial staff of the department were placed in then upper levels of management and even though they didn't have the necessary knowledge to make intelligent decisions, they nonetheless had the effrontery to tell those of us who had years of practical and progressively responsible operating experience that we didn't know what we were talking about. One non operating schedule manager even had the nerve to tell me that a particular service pattern never operated when I actually worked that particular service when I was a C/R. I fully believe that it is the non negotiable OBLIGATION of anyone who takes on such a management position to attain and maintain an exhaustively encyclopedic knowledge of the transit system that employs them and then and not until then they will be qualified to make the types of decisions that their station requires. |
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| (979604) | |
Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Sep 16 15:37:23 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by mtk52983 on Thu Sep 16 07:14:30 2010. A P train on the N/B lcl tk at 34/8 would have to follow a C, possibly an E or A lcl train at some point enroute to 145 and if the train is crossed to the exp at 59 St have to interact with a D or an A if the As are running express. If the Ps were to be turned at Q/Plz, once the P cleared 42/8 it would only be interacting with one service, the E . Given that the P would be fumigated at 34/8, it would probably have a clear shot up the lcl tk to 42/8 anyhow and could proceed into D5 tk at Q/Pl with a minimum of difficulty which might not necessarily be the case at 145. |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Sep 16 15:41:00 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Railman718 on Wed Sep 15 14:27:40 2010. They run Light trains all the time from ParsonsBut this isn't a light train. It's a train full of all the people who would usually be using the LIRR. |
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Re: P Train Will Run In October |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Sep 16 15:41:35 2010, in response to Re: P Train Will Run In October, posted by Joe V on Wed Sep 15 17:27:00 2010. Fair point. From Manhattan all times then. |
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