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| (965866) | |
[OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 08:04:58 2010 Looks different today ! Location: Queensborough Plaza... Car: BMT D-Type Triplex 6029... Collection of: George Conrad Collection...from nycsubway.org Bill Newkirk |
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| (965942) | |
Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Aug 10 11:57:19 2010, in response to [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 08:04:58 2010. Oh hell yeah the view is much different!! Nice ol' pic!! :-) |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Aug 10 18:23:39 2010, in response to [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 08:04:58 2010. Zat is QVEENSBORO PLAZA! Nice pic too!-w- |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Aug 10 18:43:14 2010, in response to [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 08:04:58 2010. Wait a sec. That is not the current station. The inner tracks are for what is now the N&Q and the outer tracks for what is now the #7?When did they reconstruct the station to what it is today? And why? This looks much better. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Aug 10 19:24:00 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by arnine on Tue Aug 10 18:43:14 2010. When train operation at QBP was simplified in the late Fifties, half the structure (the north side) was torn down. BMT operation was introduced on the Broadway line instead of the IRT, and with the modifications to the structure gauge, all Broadway trains went to Astoria, and all trains from Times Square went to Flushing.When the QBP station had eight tracks on two levels (think of the IND W.4th Street station), the routes, then all belonging to the IRT, went to both Astoria or Flushing from either Manhattan line. |
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| (966063) | |
Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Tue Aug 10 19:27:43 2010, in response to [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 08:04:58 2010. Aside from half the station missing, the view looks almost the same! A lot of old buildings still stand amongst the newer condos. |
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| (966065) | |
Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 10 19:32:39 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by arnine on Tue Aug 10 18:43:14 2010. The Original Plans: 
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 19:41:25 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by arnine on Tue Aug 10 18:43:14 2010. Wait a sec. That is not the current station. The inner tracks are for what is now the N&Q and the outer tracks for what is now the #7?It isn't the same as today. Right where that D-Type and platform stands is now AIR ! When did they reconstruct the station to what it is today? And why? This looks much better. I believe it had something to do with the BMT capturing the Astoria Line and since the 2nd Ave 'el" hasn't sent any trains there since the early 40's, you would only need half the structure. And that's what we have today. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 19:43:20 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by G1Ravage on Tue Aug 10 19:27:43 2010. Aside from half the station missing, the view looks almost the same! A lot of old buildings still stand amongst the newer condos.Not much changed as far as buildings go in that photo. But the 'el' was closer to the buildings back then. Bill Newkirk |
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| (966069) | |
Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 19:47:17 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Aug 10 18:23:39 2010. Zat is QVEENSBORO PLAZA! Nice pic too!That photo had to be taken some time in the early or mid 50's. That's a Brighton Local to Coney Island with open RFW ! Back then the D-types were the Brighton Locals and the Standards were the Brighton Expresses. Bill Newkirk |
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| (966085) | |
Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Aug 10 21:28:52 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Aug 10 19:24:00 2010. Oh ok thanks :) I appreciate the history lesson. :)Wish they kept it this way though |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Aug 10 21:30:29 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 10 19:32:39 2010. Cool thank you. :) Saved them. Wish they kept it this way |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Aug 10 21:31:54 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 19:41:25 2010. Thanks for the info :)I wish they still kept the whole thing though. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Qveensboro_Plaza on Tue Aug 10 22:29:04 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 10 19:32:39 2010. Interesting to note that the bottom drawing appears to show two tracks from the lower level BMT side branching off to Jackson Avenue -- anticipating the never-built BMT Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown line. |
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That clock tower is long gone.... |
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Posted by gbs on Wed Aug 11 02:00:07 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 19:43:20 2010. ...on the now Metropolitan Life building, and the year had to be in the '40s, since the northern platform stopped seeing service in 1949. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Aug 11 07:57:12 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 19:47:17 2010. I wonder if the standards ever outran the Triplexes.:) |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Aug 11 07:59:06 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by arnine on Tue Aug 10 21:31:54 2010. With consolidation of routes, it wasn't necessary. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Aug 11 08:07:05 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Aug 11 07:57:12 2010. I wonder if the standards ever outran the Triplexes.:)I don't really know about that. But I do correct myself on that last post on the date when the photo was taken. It had to be in the late 40's before the BMT capture the Astoria Line. The swapping of the Standards and Triplexs as Bright Local and Expresses happened in the 50's. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Aug 11 08:16:22 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Aug 11 07:59:06 2010. I understand but always better to have too much than too little. Actually, if they kept it, they could have used the extra structure to build a connection to the QBlvd line there although they still can if they wanted to |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 11 08:31:31 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 19:47:17 2010. That photo had to be taken some time in the early or mid 50's. That's a Brighton Local to Coney Island with open RFW !The north side of QBP was abandoned on 17 Oct 1949. It was torn down in 1961. That makes the picture 1949 or before. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Michael Wares on Wed Aug 11 09:47:21 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Aug 10 19:24:00 2010. "the routes, then all belonging to the IRT, went to both Astoria or Flushing from either Manhattan line."There were also BMT shuttles, using el cars, to Astoria and Willets Point. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Aug 11 10:00:05 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Aug 10 19:24:00 2010. When the QBP station had eight tracks on two levels (think of the IND W.4th Street station), the routes, then all belonging to the IRT, went to both Astoria or Flushing from either Manhattan line.The North half of the station, which is now gone) was for BMT trains that arrived from the 60th Street tunnel and for the BMT shuttles that then ran to either Astoria and Flushing. The IRT used only the south part of the station (the part still standing today). The mezzanine was configured in such a way that there were separate fare controls - you could not transfer from the IRT to the BMT without paying another nickel at this point. The BMT had trackage rights over the remainder of both the Flushing and Astoria lines. This graphic representation from Wikipedia should clarify the track configuration  After the second avenue el service stopped, capacity increased on the IRT side, and after the BMT was diverted to the Astoria line eliminating the shuttles, the North side became redundant so all operations were moved to the south side. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by 5119 on Wed Aug 11 10:54:26 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by BMTLines on Wed Aug 11 10:00:05 2010. Excellent! One of the best, most detailed diagrams I've seen. |
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| (966199) | |
Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Aug 11 13:04:19 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by G1Ravage on Tue Aug 10 19:27:43 2010. Here's a shot before even the EL showed up:
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| (966205) | |
Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Aug 11 13:20:43 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Aug 11 13:04:19 2010. Cool pic :) |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by R32_3672 on Wed Aug 11 13:43:43 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by BMTLines on Wed Aug 11 10:00:05 2010. Thanks for the help now i understand how it went from dual sides to 1 double level station.So what is original in the station today from the old platform? |
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| (966219) | |
Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 13:55:55 2010, in response to [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 10 08:04:58 2010. The pic is interesting. The 2nd Ave el track on the IRT side looks to be in use, yet the third rail is covered, a la a subway, which I think would date it to after 1949. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:00:07 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by arnine on Tue Aug 10 18:43:14 2010. The IRT side (the one which still stands) served trains from the Steinway tubes (the #7) and the 2nd Ave el. The BMT side served as a transfer point between steel subway trains and the wooden el cars which had to operate west of QueensboroPlaza. After WWII, with the loss of the 2nd Ave el connection and the decision to thru-run BMT trains to Astoria, the need for the other half of the station was negated. The BMT was connected to the former 2nd Ave track, and the entire BMT segment was abandoned in 1949. It was torn down in 1963.Next time you are waiting for a train to Astoria at Queensboro Plaza, note how the track has to jog south to reach the platform. Once it was a straight run into the now gone northern half of the station. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:03:53 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by arnine on Wed Aug 11 08:16:22 2010. Keeping the old configuration would have made transfers between Astoria and Flushing trains a real bitch. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Aug 11 14:06:28 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by BMTLines on Wed Aug 11 10:00:05 2010. One thing that should not have to be mentioned is the amount of switching that had to be done in those days - one little goof up and the works would have been jammed up for a long time....It also shows why only 4th Ave locals went past Times Square or 57th St - there simply was no capacity for anything else. The 60th st tunnel was terribly under utilized for many many years.. Must've been a fun place to see when the Worlds Fair was going on tho...and must have been a FUN place to be a dispatcher/towerman in those days too.... |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Randyo on Wed Aug 11 14:07:49 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:00:07 2010. The BMT El shuttles ran EAST of Qnsbro Plz! |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 11 14:09:23 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 13:55:55 2010. Not all Astoria IRT trains ran to Times Square. Many were short turned at QBP and relayed on the Queensboro Bridge. That meant that all 4 IRT tracks remained in use.The absence of exposed third rail on the upper level means that it was probably after 1942. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Randyo on Wed Aug 11 14:10:38 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 13:55:55 2010. I noticed that too. That track would have been the direct track off the 2 Av El, and should have had uncovered 3rd rail for exclusive use by el cars although when the 2 Av el was up, it was used to transfer cars from the IRT Queens lines to the IRT mainline for main shop repair at 148 St Shop. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:14:02 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:00:07 2010. D'oh!
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Aug 11 14:18:17 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 11 14:09:23 2010. Thanks, I corrected myself in another post reply. I confused the swapping of the Triplex's and Standards on the Brighton since that was sometime in the early 50's.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:23:26 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 11 14:09:23 2010. I assumed that track was abandoned, like it seems to be here:Of course, this pic could date to a time when it was OOS during reconfiguration prior to the 1949 service change. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:23:38 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 11 14:09:23 2010. I assumed that track was abandoned, like it seems to be here: Of course, this pic could date to a time when it was OOS during reconfiguration prior to the 1949 service change. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:25:16 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:23:38 2010. OK, try #3. I assumed that after 1942, the trackway used by the 2nd Ave el was abandoned, like it appears to be HERE:
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:26:36 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Aug 11 14:06:28 2010. Also explains why the connection to the IND was built. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Aug 11 14:48:15 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:00:07 2010. Thanks I appreciate the info :) |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Aug 11 14:49:32 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:03:53 2010. Yes I can see that now |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Aug 11 20:14:37 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:25:16 2010. 1575 has one of those destination curtains. It seems to get swapped around a bit now.:) |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Aug 11 23:09:39 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:25:16 2010. This is a pretty amazing shot also - a pre-1949 shot of R units on what was then strictly BMT trackage. Okay, it was all one big 'happy' family then (Pirrmann estiguesses this shot as 1948), but still, a pre war R unit at QBP - did they EVER run in 'normal' service there post-1949?? Seems the Ds pretty much ran there until their dying day - especially after getting switched to the West End. And it also seems that post - 1949, maybe 27s and 30s ran there, but you never see pics of prewar Rs on the Astoria...or even anywhere on Broadway period.Since it took a lot of doing to get IND equipment to the BMT ( and reverse), in those days (car float??), could they possibly been seeing if the Rs could handle the ramp up from the 60th st tunnel?? This shot is not as obviously rare as the shots of the Bluebirds and Budds, but its right up there....to see an R unit, in apparently regular service, at QBP...with proper signage in the front and apparently the other end too...its almost like some sort of odd parallel universe... |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Aug 11 23:09:45 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:25:16 2010. This is a pretty amazing shot also - a pre-1949 shot of R units on what was then strictly BMT trackage. Okay, it was all one big 'happy' family then (Pirrmann estiguesses this shot as 1948), but still, a pre war R unit at QBP - did they EVER run in 'normal' service there post-1949?? Seems the Ds pretty much ran there until their dying day - especially after getting switched to the West End. And it also seems that post - 1949, maybe 27s and 30s ran there, but you never see pics of prewar Rs on the Astoria...or even anywhere on Broadway period.Since it took a lot of doing to get IND equipment to the BMT ( and reverse), in those days (car float??), could they possibly been seeing if the Rs could handle the ramp up from the 60th st tunnel?? This shot is not as obviously rare as the shots of the Bluebirds and Budds, but its right up there....to see an R unit, in apparently regular service, at QBP...with proper signage in the front and apparently the other end too...its almost like some sort of odd parallel universe... |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Aug 11 23:51:27 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by streetcarman1 on Wed Aug 11 13:04:19 2010. Niiice... |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Aug 12 02:56:52 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Aug 11 23:09:45 2010. In the immediate post war period, R-1s ran on the 4 Av lcl due to a car shortage on the BMT. Some time in the mid 1950s, R-9s also ran on the 4 Av Lcl and although I never rode them in that service, I do recall seeing them at QB PL circa 1956 when I was passing through on a Flushing Line train. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Aug 12 07:51:08 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Aug 11 23:09:39 2010. There are pics of R-1s on the Astoria line sporting 2 signs. |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Thu Aug 12 08:43:08 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Randyo on Thu Aug 12 02:56:52 2010. May I assume this was AFTER the IND connection at Church St was built? I just realized that last night....I still someday would like an explanation as to this BMT 'car shortage' that seemingly started in the late 40s.....was the company always short of equipment and just never took care of it? Or did this somehow happen after the city take over? |
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Aug 12 10:53:56 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 11 14:26:36 2010. Also explains why the connection to the IND was built.This was the 1939 Second System Plan pre-consolidation. 
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Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Aug 12 11:02:19 2010, in response to Re: [OLDE PHOTO] D-Types At Queensboro Plaza, posted by arnine on Wed Aug 11 08:16:22 2010. Actually, if they kept it, they could have used the extra structure to build a connection to the QBlvd line there although they still can if they wanted toThey did, but it was under 11th st instead. It's a lot better now than it was pre-1949. The only loss is access to the defunct 2nd Av El. If they build the SAS below 63rd, the nearby Queensbridge St at 21st St will get you there. One big lost opportunity was to have the under-construction Gotham Center (the site of the old brutalistic parking garage) build a footbridge connection from QP Station to QBP platforms. |
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