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Re: WhineMATA |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 12:30:11 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 12:17:57 2010. I'm sure if these people actually cared enough about WMATA to write to someone in a position of power about it, they could find someone to address their letter to.Over the past 3 weeks, with the exception of the bus operator who offloaded his bus at a location that was not a bus stop a few blocks short of the end of the line so he could layover at his convenience (when the FH bus terminal was closed for some construction project) and the pathetic response from WMATA customer service in response to my letter of complaint about the incident, I have not had any issues with Metro. |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 13:24:34 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jun 30 15:34:02 2010. What has really annoyed me is how they have on 4 occasions now since 2005 been unwilling to consider my suggestion to go to a base fare of $2.00, with a $0.25-$0.50 surcharge for peak-of-peak (8-9:30AM and 4:30-6PM were my hours). An extra $0.50-$1.00 if a trip crossed the Beltway. Local Metrobus would be $1.50 for SmarTrip or $2.00 for cash.This would make the maximum peak fare $2.75-$3.50, keeping the system affordable for people living at the ends of the lines. It would also encourage people who can use Metrobus as an alternative to rail to do so. For example, I started taking the D6 to get to clients downtown from Dupont instead of the Red line because it was closer at both ends. (Coming home, it stops right across the street instead of 3 blocks away.) What made little sense to me was the buses would arrive at Dupont, crowded to packed and empty out with the bulk of those people getting on the subway. A little over a dozen people remained, most of whom exited by Connecticut/Farragut. The only folks on after I exited at 15th were folks who had come from Sibley and were heading to SE. Getting more people to use/remain on the buses that serve the same destinations as the subway would reduce some of the crowding problems. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 13:48:01 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 13:24:34 2010. But...as Metrorail was built, the mentality was exactly the opposite. WMATA wanted people on Metrorail instead of running duplicate service on the Metrobuses, so they cut many routes back and diverted them to the local Metrorail station. It was seen as "efficient". |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:02:01 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 13:48:01 2010. It was also a different time when Metrorail wasn't expected to get this much ridership and people might have been reluctant to take a bus.Some of the routes that parallel rail need to be beefed up in off-peak hours and some need to be beefed up period (i.e. Ride On routes 34 and 46 which run Friendship Heights-Medical Center and Medical Center-Rockville). |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:04:44 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 13:24:34 2010. You idea sounds almost exactly like my idea and I think that is the most efficient way to both keep the system somewhat affordable and to get short trip riders to Metrobus. One thing I don't like about WMATA is that they seem to operate Metrobus and Metrorail in quasi competition with each other and don't have the two collaborate ever.WMATA missed a golden opportunity for some unification when they ended paper bus transfers, but didn't make rail passes valid for Metrobus. I know the (long-delayed) Smartrip upgrades would take care of this, but missed opportunities are never good. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 14:17:57 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:02:01 2010. Why is it that the local municipality routes must always run to save WMATA's backside in terms of providing service? Ride On was not created to provide line-haul service, nor was DASH, Fairfax Connector, ART, etc. They were created to fill in the holes that WMATA willingly left. When underperforming WMATA routes were taken over, they were modified to enhance the service and to make them more attractive to residents of the community. |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:25:43 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 14:17:57 2010. Ride On was not created to provide line-haul serviceRide On seems to have been pretty content to take over ex-Metrobus routes (N9->29, T4->42->34 south of Medical Center, T6->46) and to do Metrobus's weekend service on the L8, T2, and Z2 and to keep them as "line-haul" service. Some of Ride On's other routes (5, 15, 34, 48) have ridership at this point that borders on those "line-haul" routes as well. |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:35:58 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 13:24:34 2010. The people who live in Montgomery and Fairfax Counties can afford the high fares. Shady Grove is the busiest Metro station outside of the District and it's at the end of the Red line. |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:36:55 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 11:52:06 2010. I'm pretty sure most people know the story about Metro's proposal to serve Georgetown and the community's opposition. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 14:38:23 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:25:43 2010. I'll admit that I don't fully understand the history of all the routes that were taken over ridership wise, but I'd hazard a guess that the routes taken over weren't the strongest routes out there. I'd even go as far as saying that the weekend service on the L8, T2, and Z2 would be horrendous if Ride On didn't step in to take over the service. I really don't consider the L8, T2, and Z2 to be "line haul", or should I say "heavy duty high ridership" services, unless that has changed recently.I stand by my initial statement that Ride On wasn't created to run line haul routes, considering it started off with minibuses and 30 footers as its base bus fleet until the mid 1990's. Ridership has skyrocketed since then, requiring them to purchase 40 foot buses in 1999, then 2000, and while they attempted to go back to 35 feet, they ended up making 40 foot buses the standard. Unless there are enough of the new Gilligs running now, Ride On is still having capacity issues, and also very recently had funding issues (which I imagine are still going on). Hold WMATA to the fire for their shortcomings. The counties/jurisdictions are still paying for their service despite the community buses. |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:38:37 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 11:58:47 2010. Metro on its worst day is still better than any transit system in this country. Trains are clean, fast, and frequent (with a few exceptions). |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:39:58 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 11:23:13 2010. Metro was the impetus for the development of these bedroom communities. Before Metro served Silver Spring, there was nothing there. Now it's a downtown area. |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:44:19 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:35:58 2010. The middle class of Montgomery County would be offended if they ever read that. Everyone in Montgomery County isn't making mid-six-figures and living in Chevy Chase.Also, Silver Spring is more busy than Shady Grove and it's practically on top of the District. |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:45:59 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:39:58 2010. Silver Spring had stuff, then suburban blight hit. Then Metro came and for the better part of a quarter century there was still nothing there.Similar story with Bethseda. |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:48:30 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 14:38:23 2010. As someone who rides the 5 to and from work several days a week, I can say with confidence that 35' buses are a bit too small for that route in rush hours. Given it's one of the few southern routes that crosses the legs and that MD 587 becomes a massive mess in rush hour, 40' buses on that route are a godsend. |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 15:01:37 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 14:38:23 2010. A big problem with the suburban areas is they generally are bedroom communities that are car-necessary (you'd be amazed how many places within walking distance of Metro have no sidewalks and roads that are extremely hazardous to attempt walking). They don't have enough people using the subways other than peak times so the local bus patronage is mostly non-existent outside of peak. Montgomery is the only jurisdiction that has a significant off-peak and reverse-peak ridership, and the busiest routes are the cross-county ones from Gaithersburg south. That, however, has come about since the mid-1990s, largely because they wanted to lure young, professional types who were being priced out of living in the District.While the various Northern Virginia jurisdictions have babbled about "smart growth" they are focusing primarily on development immediately surrounding the Metro stations, not doing anything about the sprawl that has already built up away from them. The folks who live there use private autos and don't care at all whether there's a bus or subway. Prince Georges has been largely dysfunctional across the board. Their bus service is pathetic, likely the worst in the region. Rather than do even the simplest of things to promote ridership, they have treated them as "po folk rides." It will be very interesting to see what happens now that the state is getting in the act with their initiative to spur business development in the county. Earlier attempts, like moving Census to Suitland did nothing to stimulate interest. |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 15:35:13 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:35:58 2010. That is not so. Rockville, Gaithersburg, Aspen Hill, Silver Spring and Wheaton have significant populations of immigrants and other low-wage earners, and large numbers of middle-income residents. The affluent residents in either county are largely not transit customers nor advocates. |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 16:07:44 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 15:35:13 2010. Glenmont can be tossed in there too. Ditto Kensington though Kensington is sort of the land transit, and development, forgot. Still is pretty solidly middle class and there's decent ridership in the main core there. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jul 1 16:08:56 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 15:35:13 2010. indeed so. when I use Ride On 48, English is often the minority language. These people like unto me when I lived east of Ave B are "double fared" to get anywhere on Metro rail as there is NO interline fare. |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 16:48:33 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jul 1 16:08:56 2010. Don't forget Takoma Park and the Montgomery County side of Langley Park. Everything east of Connecticut Avenue is a lot more middle class than people assume it is. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 17:42:22 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:45:59 2010. Bethesda never had "suburban blight." |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 17:44:42 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:36:55 2010. As it has been stated many times on this board, the "community opposition" in Georgetown was not the primary reason there is no Metro to Georgetown. It was primarily an engineering decision. The full rationale is explained in Zachary Schrag's The Great Society Subway, which you ought to read before making all sorts of declarations about the history of Metro. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 17:52:51 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:25:43 2010. The N9 was an express bus from Montgomery Mall to Federal Triangle that operated express via the Clara Barton Parkway after making the Glen Echo stop. It was rerouted via Massachusetts Avenue after the Red Line opened to Grosvenor and N9 ridership dropped as people began to take the subway instead, at which time it became the N7. The N8 is the predecessor to Ride On route 29. (Incidentally, both route designations have since been used for various Wesley Heights service for the past 10 years or so).The T4 ran from Bethesda to White Flint via Old Georgetown Road. The T6 ran from Friendship Heights to Shady Grove. In the early 1990s, it became the 42 and 46. The rerouting of the 42 due to security restrictions at NIH and the subsequent extension of the 34 to Friendship Heights have nothing to do with transit subsidies, which are often the underlying issue for who runs what (who can operate the service at the lowest cost). The 48 used to be a WMATA route as well (either Q4 or Q6), the 41 used to be a WMATA route (also a Q route), the 26 used to be the C8, the 1/11 used to be the J4/J6. Incidentally, the busiest Ride On route in terms of ridership (the 55) was never a WMATA route. There have been proposals to make the 15 into a WMATA route, so this sort of thing can go the other way, too. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 17:57:40 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 13:24:34 2010. I've written long posts about why I don't think that sort of system would work and that distance based fares are the way to go. It might help to change the formulas for the fares to decrease the per mile fare after mile 3 and especially after mile 7 or 10 during rush hour. Also, the fares for off-peak aren't entirely fair in my opinion, since they aren't done solely by mileage during those time periods.Why does everyone like drawing arbitrary lines at certain points on a map (the Beltway in this case) at which point the fare jumps? Why not make it so if you travel more than X miles, you start paying more based on how far you actually go? It is actually a fairer system in my opinion than nearly any other proposal since you pay for what you actually use. |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 17:58:36 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 16:48:33 2010. Actually, east of 355. "The wrong side of the tracks." My other half works on N.Horners Lane and even though it's not a slum, it's definitely not like west of 355. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 18:12:15 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 14:48:30 2010. I have to laugh because I remember the days when Ride On didn't have buses larger than 30 feet long. I can only imagine the crowding that must have occurred during the rush (although I honestly believe that ridership has been steadily growing over time since those days).More recently, there was always a run on the 15, around 7 or 8PM, that used a 30 foot buses, either a 1989 Gillig (really miss them) or an Orion I (miss those too!). That bus, as you can imagine, was PACKED. I guess that's why Silver Spring got all of those 40 foot Gilligs, which is great! Is the 5 still using minibuses in the evenings and on Sundays? |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 18:15:46 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 15:35:13 2010. THANK YOU for pointing that out, Dupont Circle Station. These rash stereotypes are quite offensive, and obviously are supported by those who don't really know the areas that well. |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 18:17:25 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 16:48:33 2010. Indeed! |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 18:23:06 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 17:52:51 2010. There have been proposals to make the 15 into a WMATA route, so this sort of thing can go the other way, too.The 15 would make a rather short WMATA route unless it was consolidated into something else. However, that's what I would think should happen. Routes with incredibly high ridership (the 15 used to be the highest ridership route at one time, and seems to provide more frequent service than the 55 according to the schedule) should get WMATA's attention so that they could be considered as WMATA routes. The municipalities should continue to focus on smaller community routes. At least, that's my opinion, as WMATA has the resources and expertise to handle higher rider loads than any of the other smaller systems. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 18:32:39 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 18:23:06 2010. Ride On operates the 15 as frequently as it does because until recently, there were so few 40 footers in the fleet, odds were that a trip would be covered by a 30 footer or 35 footer. Therefore, they needed the frequent trips to meet demand. Although Route 15 ridership has gone up since this was explained to me, as a WMATA route, every trip could be operated by a 40 footer, which could result in a longer headway compared to the current Ride On service and ultimately, monetary savings as a result of "cutting" service.The main reason the 55 became the highest ridership route is because the 59 no longer operates along 355 between Shady Grove and Lakeforest, and the 62 no longer operates along 355 between 124 and Middlebrook (or anywhere else for that matter, since it got discontinued). It is the only route on some very heavy ridership sections where ridership used to be split among several routes, and now all those riders are on th e 55. |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 20:31:01 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 17:57:40 2010. Distance-based fares simply discourage ridership on rapid transit. Metro needs to get over its insistence on trying to act like it's a commuter rail system. It isn't. That may have sold people on using it back in 1976 but not today. It has also outgrown its "gubbmint worker shuttle" role. It is used just as much by folks for short rides as it is by commuters, and as you well know it is heavily used outside of peak hours. Metro has reached the point where it must accept it is a utility used by the average Joe, not a premium service for well-to-do suburbanites.I have a friend who lives in Temple Hills and has to be at work in Rockville at 7AM. For him to take Metro would cost $15 per day for fare and parking (since the bus from near his house to Branch Av doesn't run until 6:15, it's 20 minutes to the station, and the train trip is at least 59 minutes). That's $75 per week. It costs him about the same for gas. He chooses to drive because it generally takes 20-30 minutes less than the subway, it's door-to-door, and it's at his convenience. Back when gas was over $4/gallon, you'll recall how everyone was crowing about all the people who switched to Metro because it was cheaper. Well, when gas prices went down, many of those folks went back to driving their cars every day. They need to be won back for the long haul. I had also suggested to Jim Graham inverting the distance/cost calculation. He told me that was completely out of the question because, regardless of how sound the logic and rationale, a lot of folks in DC would view that as favoring suburbanites and the discussion would rapidly degenerate into the "R" word being flung about wildly. I chose the Beltway because it's a widely-understood, fixed boundary. It's also far enough out so those coming from beyond couldn't claim it as being totally unreasonable. And other than the outer Red Line, there is only a handful of stations where that surcharge would apply. While off-peak fares would increase, peak fares would decrease considerably. Provided WMATA makes tangible improvements to the customer experience, accountability, abolishing outdated or ineffective practices, and once and for all making rail and bus operations play nice with each other, this will ultimately lead to a substantial increase in ridership and revenues. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 20:48:21 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 20:31:01 2010. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.I'd love to see DC step in and provide a larger subsidy for intra-DC travel, and other jurisdictions could do the same, or for some sort of evening out to occur with the per-mileage fares, because as they currently stand, long distance travelers really get hosed. I still take issue with the Beltway as a dividing line of some sort for where an "extra long" trip starts. Maybe because I am a western side of the Red Line rider. The advantage to distance based fares in my mind is that you actually have to travel a specific distance before higher fares kick in, not because you pass over a line that someone drew on a map. Why should I pay a surcharge to go from Grosvenor to Friendship Heights when someone who gets on at Bethesda and goes all the way to Judiciary Square or Union Station is going much further and creating far more congestion in the core? Provided WMATA makes tangible improvements to the customer experience, accountability, abolishing outdated or ineffective practices, and once and for all making rail and bus operations play nice with each other, this will ultimately lead to a substantial increase in ridership and revenues. Very true, and the last item is something that is often discussed with few results. It would be nice to see that change. |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Jul 1 21:00:30 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 18:15:46 2010. These stereotypes probably have played a role on why Metrobus fares are so unreasonably low and why the suburbs always get soaked with high Metrorail fares. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jul 1 21:55:06 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 17:44:42 2010. And you stand reminded that Schrag might not be the only scholar to have ever perpetuated a misperception of history. For exercise go read Lopate in the NYT defending R. Moses. |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 22:48:35 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 20:48:21 2010. As they say, "Location! Location! Location!"Your logic of distance based fares is somewhat askew. Rather than a single, fixed sphere, you're creating a whole bunch of them...someone at Shady Grove has to pass through all of them to reach a destination downtown...even more if they're continuing beyond that. A flat surcharge beyond a certain point is far more reasonable and far less complicated than the existing scheme. And, remember, it would apply going the other direction as well...there are a lot of reverse-commutes, so it wouldn't be singling out people who live in The Beyond. The alternative would be a single, flat fare of say $2.50-$3.00 for everyone, though that would definitely piss off those who use the subway more frequently than commuters. The objective is to come up with a fare scheme that is fair and affordable to all riders, will attract more riders, grow revenue, and not have to be increased in short order (as the current fare will to compensate for the loss of ridership that will result from people choosing to find other ways to get around). Even with a "Beyond the Beltway" charge, the peak fare for many would still be less than it is now, and cheaper than driving (unless you can find parking downtown for less than $10/day). |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 22:51:13 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 15:35:13 2010. My uncle lives in Germantown, Maryland (about 20 minutes from Shady Grove). That area looks like Beverly Hills. |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 22:52:35 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 20:31:01 2010. Distance-based fares simply discourage ridership on rapid transitIf that's the case then why are some of the busiest stations at the ends of the Red and Orange lines? |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 23:22:37 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 22:52:35 2010. There is no alternative for many who live out there. There would be a lot more ridership if fares didn't cost more than it does to drive, as was the case a couple of years ago. Between the recession and less expensive gas, there has been a significant hit to ridership and revenue, necessitating the latest fare hike. It isn't just commuters not riding, many people who use the system for short, spur-of-the-moment trips around town for things like shopping are using it less. There were plenty of people interviewed in the various local news media who said they had cut back on or abandoned Metro because of the cost. |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 23:38:33 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 23:22:37 2010. Every morning around 6 AM the parking lots at the suburban stations fill up. By the time the inbound Orange line reaches East Falls Church it's already crush loaded. Metro ridership is robust. Furthermore, the suburban stations are spaced so far apart that Metro is essentially a commuter railroad masquerading as a subway system. People get what they paid for. A trip on the Red line from Rockville to the District is expensive but it's 10-15 miles on a train with cushioned seats. If people can't afford Metrorail then they can take the joke known as the Metrobus. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 23:45:04 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 22:51:13 2010. I've never been to Beverly Hills but I've never heard it compared to Germantown, MD! |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 23:54:32 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 22:48:35 2010. This is the beauty of WMATA's fare infrastructure, it gives them the ability to charge differently for specific station pairs as deemed necessary. It isn't necessarily straightforward, but it does allow for riders to pay for what they use, and can be used to provide discounts for where capacity exists while charging a higher fare for where it does not.I'm not proposing creating multiple spheres per se. I am proposing that for starters, the mileage rate for longer trips should be equal to that for shorter trips. With made up values here, let's say the rush hour fare is 1 dollar for the first 3 miles and then 50 cents for each additional mile, with the fare prorated for fractions, and a maximum of 10 dollars (obviously the base fare in this scenario is much lower than it is in reality, but it serves my example well). A trip that is 2.5 composite miles costs 1 dollar. A 3.5 mile long trip would be $1.25. A 15 mile trip would be 10 dollars. If DC wants to further subsidize fares for trips between certain stations under the assumption those riders are mostly from DC, they should go ahead and do so. Parking fees ought to be decreased, I think one of the biggest issues facing long distance end of the line riders is that they have to pay close to 5 dollars a day to park, and then up to 5 more to ride. |
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Re: WhineMATA |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 23:59:17 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 23:38:33 2010. Just because some trains may be crowded does not mean business is booming. I have been on quite a few Red line trains over the last few months during the height of afternoon rush that actually had seats available at Dupont...and there weren't any delays that would account for it.Do everyone a favor and drop the smug, elitist attitude. There are lots of people who work damn hard but are still struggling financially for whom fare increases really hurt. Don't you dare and insult them. You could just as easily find yourself in their shoes at some point. |
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Re: WhineMATA |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Fri Jul 2 00:07:23 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jul 1 23:59:17 2010. My mom just got laid off from the job she's worked at for the past 15 years. I can empathize with people who are struggling financially. My point is that the Metro is my favorite system. The Metro takes pride in providing high quality service. Stations are clean and trains are fast and comfortable. Metro riders pay a high price to ride a high quality system. No one's forcing them to do so. Instead, they can ride a rat-infested system that has shuttle buses replacing trains on weekends. |
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Re: WhineMATA |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jul 2 00:12:04 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 1 23:54:32 2010. Well, quelle surprise, we disagree. Parking should be more expensive, ALL feeder transit should be fare integrated. WMATA should sell monthly passes.As someone who grew up near River Rd and Wilson Lane, I was bitter back then about zone fares. It was exactly 10 miles to the zero point in the back yard of the White house and well into the second surcharge zone. Conversely, when I was in Chicago for summers w/the relatives, a single CTA fare was good for double that distance. As to auto usage accessing Metro rail, we need to seriously cut down GHG. |
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Re: WhineMATA |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Jul 2 00:32:37 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Forest Glen on Fri Jul 2 00:07:23 2010. Again the NYCT system is over 100yrs old in some places. The DC Metro is what about 40 yrs old now? And how many DC lines runs 24/7? If NYC could shut down some lines every day for a few hours they could maybe clean up the stations somewhat.It's not really fair you keep slamming the MTA [not saying it's perfect by any means], but it can't be compared fairly to the much younger DC Metro. |
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Re: WhineMATA |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Fri Jul 2 00:33:55 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Jul 2 00:32:37 2010. incorrect |
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Re: WhineMATA |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Jul 2 00:35:23 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Jul 2 00:32:37 2010. but it can't be compared fairly to the much younger DC MetroI'm glad someone else here has figured that out. It seems as if everyone thinks every subway is fully comparable to any other, especially the NYC system. |
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Re: WhineMATA |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Jul 2 00:39:14 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jul 2 00:12:04 2010. I agree that feeder transit should have integrated fares and have said so for quite awhile. I've posted elsewhere about my thoughts on a WMATA pass, try coming up with a fair one but I'll listen to any proposal. My comment about the parking is simply one that I'm repeating that I've heard elsewhere, and to be honest, is valid in my opinion. Either the fares need to come down for longer distance trips or the parking fees should come down. Those stations were designed with the idea that people would drive to them, park their cars there, and then take the train the rest of the way and if the cost of doing that is going to rival the cost of driving and parking downtown, those riders don't have much of a reason to stay on Metro.GHG? |
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Re: WhineMATA |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Jul 2 00:39:24 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Jul 2 00:35:23 2010. exactly. If anything he should be comparing the DC Metro to the BART. At least something that's about as old. But this nonsense about slamming the NYCT subway for 'rat infested stations' and comparing it to the 'crown jewel' that is the DC Metro is just far off. Apples to oranges. |
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Re: WhineMATA |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Fri Jul 2 00:40:40 2010, in response to Re: WhineMATA, posted by Grand Concourse on Fri Jul 2 00:39:24 2010. I never explicitly said NYC subway. You're being paranoid. |
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