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PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 01:08:38 2010

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a.k.a. train #560 but that number will remain with a different route.

I wasn't sure if I was going to make it but my son came back early enough from his school's overnight camp in the Poconos so off we went.


This is where we start.




Last time I rode this train, the high platform was long enough for one door. Now it's two car long. Most SubChatters should recognize the condo on the left.




Two more people came before we were all told the train will leave from track 7 or some other track but not this one. So we move south. Track 7 it ain't. Wow there are at least three high platforms here now? Is this track 9 or 10? IDK but we move down there.




We move, looking back at track 7.




Yeah... That condo is close to the tracks, what did they expect? Right next to it, is also the Queens Midtown Tunnel entrance.




We cross the Dutch Kills. The other bridge seen here connects the Lower Montauk to the Main line.




We go under the BQE's Kosciusko Bridge.




Passing through the back of Metro Mall, the M train isn't far from here.




Couple of pics going through Forest Park, trees are too close to get clean shots.






Defunct Richmond Hill station. The tags get worse as we go east.






Going back to civilization.




Traffic on Van Wyck.




Yeah, we're almost there.




There, we are.




While we were waiting for a Flatbush Ave Atlantic Terminal bound train, one of the few Brooklyn - West Hempstead train shows up on another track.




The catwalk installation between ENY and Nostrand is all done except for a short stretch right before Nostrand. The line doesn't look the same anymore. I tried to take one last pic there, but an eastbound train came right on at the time. :(


Well. I'm not a photo person, but thanks for watchio˙˙łf you're reading this.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by arnine on Sat May 15 08:10:30 2010, in response to PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 01:08:38 2010.

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Great pics

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 15 12:19:23 2010, in response to PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 01:08:38 2010.

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Heh. I rode this train on Tuesday. Was the only person on it not employed by the LIRR.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 15 12:28:20 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 15 12:19:23 2010.

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Yesterday I was on the 4:05 Port Jefferson-Jamaica train, which on Monday will be truncated to a shuttle to Huntington. All 4 cars were crush loaded upon leaving Huntington (it then ran non-stop to Jamaica), standees galore near the doors. I cannot believe they will allow this train to be turned into a Huntington x-fer when Stony Brook College is open. That's gonna be a nightmare.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 12:47:36 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by arnine on Sat May 15 08:10:30 2010.

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Thanks. Going back and forth preview somehow garbled my last line.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 12:52:27 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 15 12:19:23 2010.

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There were about ten people, probably because it was a Friday and Wall St. lets out early.

One was there knowing it was the last run via Lower Montauk, one seemed to be a regular working in a nearby office, the rest probably came off the Water Taxi.

I expected more fans to be there but we were the only ones.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 13:04:21 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 15 12:28:20 2010.

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Ha. So we were at Jamaica almost at the same time. The Atlantic branch train we were on left there at 5:37.

I rode that Huntington to NYP train that's supposed to take over, on the way home from Montauk. It was SRO when it got to Jamaica. How are they going to stuff four cars of C2 on top of that? Right?

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 15 15:05:27 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 13:04:21 2010.

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You probably left a minute or two before the train I was on arrived on track 1.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat May 15 15:38:05 2010, in response to PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 01:08:38 2010.

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Nice job!! Nice shots!! :-)

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sat May 15 17:18:59 2010, in response to PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 01:08:38 2010.

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Two more people came before we were all told the train will leave from track 7 or some other track but not this one. So we move south. Track 7 it ain't. Wow there are at least three high platforms here now? Is this track 9 or 10? IDK but we move down there.

That's the southern side of the terminal; you can see the electrified tracks confirming that. I think that the southernmost three tracks are electrified, 10-13, so that would mean that this train was on track 10.



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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sat May 15 17:20:01 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sat May 15 17:18:59 2010.

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Actually checking checkthedoorlights's excellent map, the northernmost track is numbered 0, so that would make the track that the train departed from track 9.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 15 20:08:30 2010, in response to PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 01:08:38 2010.

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Very nice! Thanks!

The 4:54 used to be the earlier train, of the two trains out of LIC back in the local station days. I often got this train at the stop at Fresh Pond, and would transfer at Jamaica to a Montauk Branch (real Montauk Branch) trains. I did that a lot on the early 90's.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sat May 15 20:16:21 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 13:04:21 2010.

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I rode that Huntington to NYP train that's supposed to take over, on the way home from Montauk. It was SRO when it got to Jamaica. How are they going to stuff four cars of C2 on top of that? Right?

Does the usual trainset assigned to that EMU have 10 cars or 12 cars?

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 10:53:12 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat May 15 15:38:05 2010.

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Thanks.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 10:55:03 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sat May 15 17:20:01 2010.

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Thanks for the info. I find it amazing that they actually built three new high platforms there in the last ten years or so.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 10:58:51 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sat May 15 20:16:21 2010.

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I don't know. That was the only time I rode that train.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 11:02:22 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 15 20:08:30 2010.

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The local stops are even more hardly recognizable now. I noticed one set of stairs coming down from above remaining but the train was running too fast to get a picture of it.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 11:10:48 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 11:02:22 2010.

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Many of the local stops were hardly recognizable then when they were still open!

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Fred G on Sun May 16 11:35:55 2010, in response to PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 01:08:38 2010.

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Great coverage and thanks for posting your photos.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Transit Guy on Sun May 16 12:06:00 2010, in response to PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 01:08:38 2010.

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Nice photos!

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:14:26 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 11:10:48 2010.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:19:01 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sat May 15 20:16:21 2010.

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It's usually 12 cars. That train is already a meat wagon.

I'm still not sure what eastbound Port Jefferson train is being cut that necessitates this change.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:20:26 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 10:55:03 2010.

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It was probably cheaper than moving all the trains into and out of a single platform day in and day out.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 12:30:18 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:19:01 2010.

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The real problem is a gap in Port Jefferson Branch service. Trains depart Port Jefferson at 2:37 and then at 4:05. The schedule should be redone such that the Port Jefferson trains are shuttles but so as to allow for another westbound afternoon train connecting to an EMU at Huntington; cut another train or five elsewhere to balance this out.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 12:38:35 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 11:10:48 2010.

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Yes I know. Therefore the "even more" in my post. :)

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 12:42:49 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Fred G on Sun May 16 11:35:55 2010.

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You're very welcome. I wished I could have taken a pic of the train running through the Park, but between that and riding the train, I chose the latter.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 12:43:04 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Transit Guy on Sun May 16 12:06:00 2010.

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Thanks.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 12:43:41 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:14:26 2010.

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There you have it!



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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:45:45 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 12:30:18 2010.

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The Port Jefferson branch does not need more westbound service during the PM rush. The 4:05 is an unusual train because up to 50% of it's regular users are Stony Brook students. 200-300 people can get on at Stony Brook alone. In the summer, the train is barely 60% full upon arrival in Huntington. Adding these masses to an already heavily used MU is just bad. The current (well past, now that the new scheds are in effect) pattern split diesel riders and MU riders so that neither train was overwhelmed. Diesel riders heading for NYC could transfer in Jamaica to a lightly patronized Long Beach MU.

I have a feeling this service pattern will be restored next fall.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:49:30 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 12:43:41 2010.

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I've ridden the line about 12 times in the past 2.5 years and I still cannot tell where this station was. Without the sign, there's no hint of it's existence.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 12:56:38 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:45:45 2010.

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Probably LIRR can and should make many cuts elsewhere, but we won't see that happen. LIRR's cuts are still largely oblivious to their problem of massive labor costs. Only a very substantial fare increase and severe cuts to conform to loading guidelines are going to be able to stop LIRR from making MTA bleed massive amounts of money. Alas, ESA will only make things much worse.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 13:21:20 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 15 12:52:27 2010.

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Talking about the Water Taxi, It seems that they won't change their schedule (arriving at LIC at 4:47), meaning that the boat will not connect to the train anymore. The new LIRR schedule will have train #560 leave LIC at 4:44 (then Hunterspoint at 4:59).

What they could do is change the order of stops and go to LIC before E 34th St.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 13:24:35 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:20:26 2010.

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For only five trains per direction per day? I guess in the long run but still...

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 13:26:16 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 13:21:20 2010.

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If I'm not wildly off, don't most of the water taxi passengers live in the area? That departure Oyster Bay train via Montauk Line may be missed by us, but when I rode it, I was about 75% of the time (maybe a bit more, but my memory is hazy) the only guy on the train not employed by LIRR.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 13:31:45 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 12:56:38 2010.

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Probably LIRR can and should make many cuts elsewhere

Indeed. They should cut the 12:28 Babylon/Patchouge and the 1:31 Patchouge/Babylon train and have the 11:31 Jamaica/Montauk and the 11:22 Montauk/Jamaica train make the four stops that these two trains currently skip (Oakdale, Great River, Islip, Bellport). Even in the summer, when Montauk trains are in heavier demand, a 5 car train should be able to handle the combined ridership.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 13:36:40 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:49:30 2010.

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There used to be a remnant of a shelter foundation; not sure if it still remains. Riding the train, other than by knowing the nearby building or the particular crossing, it's mundane.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 13:37:36 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 13:26:16 2010.

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Back in 2007 I rode that train often. I purchased a peak LIC-Jamaica ticket, but so few riders used the train that no conductor would collect any fares until the train left Jamaica, so I got about half dozen free rides before a conductor finally did a pre-Jamaica ticket collection. Most of the time the only people on the train were Arch St. employees who would hang out in the rear car. I usually had the front 3 cars to myself.

It not fare evasion if you have a ticket and it's not collected!

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 13:39:50 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 13:21:20 2010.

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The new LIRR schedule will have train #560 leave LIC at 4:44 (then Hunterspoint at 4:59).

Anyone know the reason for this change. This isn't a service cut, it's a change.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 13:46:15 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 13:37:36 2010.

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I do the monthly pass so it's different, but most times that I rode, the conductor never came around for the check. A lot of the HPA trains were similar.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 13:56:38 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 13:31:45 2010.

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I agree. They have the statistics, so they know where to cut sensibly, and they know where cutting is ill advised.

I also can't understand why 2 tph off peak service is returning for the summer to the Port Washington Brnach when the cut is going be effective starting in mid-September.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 14:09:42 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by trainsarefun on Sun May 16 13:26:16 2010.

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Five or six people came from the ferry that day. They all seemed to be regulars. But Friday is the day when many in the financial district leave as soon as the market closes, so it's not a regular weekday. Maybe they only ride it every Friday.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 14:29:41 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 13:39:50 2010.

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I don't know. But this is actually a service increase for Hunterspoint. Also note that the schedule beyond Jamaica is exactly the same. Only the very few who rode from LIC are affected, losing ten minutes and the ferry connection.

This is a wild guess but it is possible that LIRR got some kind of waiver that instead of one round trip, as long as they keep one train running in one direction, they can keep running the Lower Montauk.

Anyway, stopping at Hunterspoint makes sense and the train will probably see more patronage.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun May 16 15:55:06 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 13:21:20 2010.

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I still don't understand how New York Water Taxi makes a profit off its East River Commuter Service, I've never seen more than 10 riders on that thing. I guess that New York Water Taxi didn't learn a lesson from NY Waterway.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun May 16 15:56:40 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 12:45:45 2010.

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Anybody who lives in the city and commutes to Stony Brook everyday gets a salute from me.

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Fred G on Sun May 16 16:18:39 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 12:42:49 2010.

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I think you made the right choice.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 16:26:37 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun May 16 15:56:40 2010.

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The solution:



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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 17:37:05 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun May 16 15:55:06 2010.

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NYWT doesn't make a profit from its fares, it runs on private and public subsidies. Most of those figures aren't available online but in the case of Schaefer Landing, the developer invested $750,000 for starting the service and the condo owners association pays $100,000 a year to keep the service running. I guess other condos have similar deals. You probably already know that the Rockaway service was paid by the city and the IKEA service by IKEA. As long as enough subsidies come in, the services will keep on running.

NY Waterway's service started with private investments from Wall St. big shots and offered non-stop service under 15 minutes. By the time it ended, it was running on government subsidies and had additional stops. When the subsidies stopped, so did the service.


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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun May 16 18:32:11 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 17:37:05 2010.

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Do New York Water Taxi's tourist services (essentially a rip-off version of what the Staten Island Ferry offers) run off public subsidy?

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun May 16 19:07:11 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 16 13:37:36 2010.

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That was like that even in the local station days. I often got on at Fresh Pond or Glendale and rode to Jamaica, they usually didn't take a fare until Jamaica. The flip side of that was that if a conductor didn't punch you and sell you a ticket before Jamaica, you technically would have to buy a ticket at Jamaica when you switched trains (I usually took a Patchogue or Montauk Branch train), otherwise get the "extra fare for not buying at the ticket office". I usually had time to walk around at Jamaica anyway, so usually would just go downstairs and buy the ticket then, but the times I didn't have time, and a transfer was imminent, I would just tell the conductor after Jamaica that I got on at Fresh Pond, and the conductor never came around to sell/collect the fares, and they understood that....and wouldn't charge the penalty, but of course he would sell the ticket from Zone 1 instead of Zone 3, so it usually paid to just walk down to the Jamaica office for a Zone 3 ticket.... :)

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Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun May 16 19:09:29 2010, in response to Re: PHOTOS: So long, 454 Oyster Bay out of LIC, posted by Wado MP73 on Sun May 16 14:29:41 2010.

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Yeah, aside from the connection to the ferry loss, this new routing makes sense, as it adds a stop at Hunterspoint, and most people from LIC don't care how they get from LIC to Jamaica, so long as they get from LIC to Jamaica.

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