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Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010 I'm fairly surprised that Tren Urbano is numero uno.Infrastructurist |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Mellow One on Tue Mar 9 19:46:35 2010, in response to Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010. It appears that the Tren Urbano is another NYW&B 100 years later. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Mar 9 22:11:50 2010, in response to Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010. LMFAO! As soon as I saw the title I just knew Tren Urbano would come in at number one. It was overly expensive and has been a miserable failure. Now, because of the piss poor ridership, all future extensions have been redesigned as BRT |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Mar 9 23:17:48 2010, in response to Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010. I am surprised the WMATA Southern Green line is on their list. The contracts for the $900 million (in 2001 dollars) 6.5 mile long, 5 station project were awarded during the late 1990s. The extension opened 01 13 2001 and came in under budget. The surplus funds were used to for pay for part of the construction costs of the Branch Avenue Yard.John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 01:22:58 2010, in response to Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010. Hmm. Figured HBLR would be on here . . . it takes the bronze medal (#3) on the list. River LAHN comes in at number NAHN. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Fytton on Wed Mar 10 05:14:16 2010, in response to Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010. Interesting. I asked myself - which is the best value of these ten projects? Reading the decriptions, I'd say it was between the HBLR andt the Phoenix system so far as new systems are concerned, but in terms of riders served, almost certainly the Market-Frankford reconstruction. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Mar 10 07:42:32 2010, in response to Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010. This just shows how little has been built in the last decade. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Mar 10 09:41:55 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Mar 10 07:42:32 2010. This just shows how little has been built in the last decade.I can think of two others that didn't make the list: Charlotte, Lynx Light Rail Second track added to the Baltimore Central light rail. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 09:51:32 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Mar 10 09:41:55 2010. Also missing are the LA Gold Line and the LA Gold line East LA extension. And Minneapolis, Dallas, Denver, Salt Lake. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Mar 10 09:57:52 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 09:51:32 2010. Yes, but it's not as if it's the ten most expensive of, say, 100 or 1000 projects. It's somewhere along the lines of if a project actually got built, it's odds-on to be on the list. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 10:04:15 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Fytton on Wed Mar 10 05:14:16 2010. I was thinking along the same lines as I read the list and I concluded Phoenix.And speaking of riders served, there's a qualifier there. My understanding is that when applying for federal money they primarily consider new riders served. It doesn't appear that moving existing riders from buses to trains is considered cost effective by the feds. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Fytton on Wed Mar 10 10:24:42 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 10:04:15 2010. '...they primarily consider new riders served. It doesn't appear that moving existing riders from buses to trains is considered cost effective by the feds.'But what about moving riders from old trains to new trains? The Market-Frankford refurb is in the list. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 11:05:49 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Fytton on Wed Mar 10 10:24:42 2010. That was most likely a necessary refurbishment. Existing riders certainly come into the equation, but in general transit money favors reducing congestion. In order to do that you have to get people out of cars. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 11:09:05 2010, in response to Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010. I don't know how accurate this list is. They originally had the LA red line number at $1.9 billion until Metro blogged that it was actually only $1.3 billion. Also the two phases of the gold line total over $1 billion. And it seems like Dallas and Denver spent enough to make the list as well. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 11:12:08 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Mar 10 09:57:52 2010. Lots of projects were built that aren't on the list, but I agree with the sentiment. The list for the next decade will have considerably larger projects (ESA, ARC, SAS, Subway to the Sea, Silver Line, possibly HSR). Light rail projects dominate this list and might not even make the next one. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 11:25:52 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Fytton on Wed Mar 10 05:14:16 2010. which is the best value of these ten projects?None of the above. Well, MFSE probably, but for the money, they could have turned the whole line into a subway and converted it to standard gauge, right? maybe even changed from under-running to over-running third rail too and allowed for run-through of the Norristown Line from 69th Street into Center City. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 11:26:19 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Mar 10 07:42:32 2010. Blowing up the costs beyond reason doesn't help. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 12:02:18 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 10:04:15 2010. It doesn't appear that moving existing riders from buses to trains is considered cost effective by the fedsHBLR and River Line can't be all that cost-effective, then; and even worse, NJT truncated bus routes in order to essentially force transfers onto the HBLR. (The SNJLRTS was not built with federal dollars, so the Feds' appraisal would be external.) |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by LA Scott on Wed Mar 10 13:17:31 2010, in response to Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010. The last decade was not a good one for heavy urban rail construction.Tren Urbano was the only new system, as well as the only new line built. All the other Metro construction projects were just extensions, and even those were few compared with previous decades. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Wed Mar 10 19:57:32 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 11:25:52 2010. maybe even changed from under-running to over-running third rail too and allowed for run-through of the Norristown Line from 69th Street into Center City.There'd be gauge issues, though gauge changing trains have been around for decades. Or just regauge one of the lines... |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Mar 10 20:01:19 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 12:02:18 2010. This is similar to what's going on in Puerto Rico. Bus routes are being redesigned, some lengthed, some rerouted, and some truncated, to get more people onto the trains |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Mar 10 20:05:04 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by LA Scott on Wed Mar 10 13:17:31 2010. It's just sad how pathetic TUs ridership is. I really would think that given the population in Bayamon, and that the line goes to the university and the financial district, the ridership would have been a lot higher. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 20:10:55 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Mar 10 20:05:04 2010. I remember when you first posted pictures that there didn't seem to be very many riders. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Mar 10 21:42:49 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 09:51:32 2010. Also missing are the LA Gold Line and the LA Gold line East LA extension. And Minneapolis, Dallas, Denver, Salt Lake.There also was the WMATA G Route Blue line extension, NYCT new South Ferry terminal, Coney Island terminal rehabilitation. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Mar 10 21:53:32 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 11:12:08 2010. Lots of projects were built that aren't on the list, but I agree with the sentiment. The list for the next decade will have considerably larger projects (ESA, ARC, SAS, Subway to the Sea, Silver Line, possibly HSR). Light rail projects dominate this list and might not even make the next one.Construction started on ESA, SAS, and the WMATA Silver line during the last decade. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Mar 10 21:54:04 2010, in response to Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010. They left out JFK's Airtrain (completed 2002) at $1.5 billion. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 21:55:20 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Mar 10 21:53:32 2010. Yeah I know but I think that they are going by opening date. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 21:56:37 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Mar 10 21:54:04 2010. Yeah. I think that this list is questionable. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 22:24:54 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by nasadowsk on Wed Mar 10 19:57:32 2010. Well, I did mention converting to standard gauge. So if that was done to the MFSE, would it be compatible with both the P&W and BSL? |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 22:27:14 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Mar 10 20:01:19 2010. They did that in Dublin too, when they opened the Luas light rail (ironically named, since Luas means "speed" and the top speed of the LRVs is 45 mph). |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Fytton on Thu Mar 11 03:45:51 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Mar 10 20:01:19 2010. 'Bus routes are being redesigned, some lengthed, some rerouted, and some truncated, to get more people onto the trains'It's not uncommon. It happened in the Newcastle upon Tyne area in the northeast of England when the Tyne & Wear Metro opened - though bus deregulation subsequently reversed the changes, at least in part. It also happened in the Croydon area of south London when the Tramlink opened, and there it hasn't been reversed (buses in London aren't deregulated!). |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Mar 11 09:41:07 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 09:51:32 2010. But there's a question of whether these lines were worthwhile in the first place. If they were, then the issue isn't to build or not build, but build in a way without a million payoffs to everybody.I have railfanned both HBLR and TRAX (Salt Lake City)- I found both well travelled and useful. I was especially pleasantly suprised by Salt Lake, as I just didn't think a relatively small, Western city would have such a well-patronized service. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Mar 11 09:45:32 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Mar 10 21:54:04 2010. Now there was foolish design at its worst- seems to me it would've just been easier to extend subway tracks from Howard Beach, and perhaps Jamaica.Of course, I remember reading something in the newspaper some years ago that Congress attached a condition to the Federal funding- that the JFK line COULD NOT be connected directly to a subway- some Senator refused to fund anything connected to a subway, but agreed to Air Train as it was separate. Now there's a case for telling the Feds what to do with their funding and instead pay for stuff locally... |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 11 10:21:02 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Mar 11 09:41:07 2010. there's a question of whether these lines were worthwhile in the first place. If they were, then the issue isn't to build or not build, but build in a way without a million payoffs to everybodyThe latter is the bigger question, or problem rather. Also in certain cases, the format of the lines needs to be questioned, rather than their routings. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 11 10:23:08 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Mar 10 21:54:04 2010. Doesn't necessarily fit under "transit". |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Mar 11 16:04:56 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Wed Mar 10 20:10:55 2010. Well I rode during the midday. Apparently peak ridership has been increasing, and when there are events at the choliseo the train is crush loaded, but other than that, very few are using it. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Mar 11 20:42:17 2010, in response to Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 16:50:07 2010. The Transport Politic has an even better summary with all of the projects listed in a sortable table. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Mar 11 20:45:26 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Thu Mar 11 20:42:17 2010. Light rail in Denver, Portland, and St. Louis costs the same as BRT in Los Angeles. |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Mar 11 21:13:01 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by Easy on Thu Mar 11 20:45:26 2010. what about the gold line east ? |
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Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Mar 11 21:19:02 2010, in response to Re: Ten most expensive North American transit projects of the last decade, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Mar 11 21:13:01 2010. It's listed in the Transport Politic. |
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