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It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 18:09:40 2010 As of next week, Tompkinsville Station joins Saint George as a fare station.From the new Winter 2009/2010 (SIR) MTA Staten Island Railway Timetable: "Metrocard(R) may be purchased at vending machines at Saint George Terminal and Tompkinsville Station, and is accepted for both entering and leaving the railway at both locations as well. Now more than ever - MTA Staten Island Railway for speed and reliability With this, Stapleton Station becomes the end/start of the free stations.. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by 156n3rd on Wed Jan 13 18:52:09 2010, in response to It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 18:09:40 2010. no free lunch, no free rides....make them pay for new rolling stock |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 19:33:20 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by 156n3rd on Wed Jan 13 18:52:09 2010. On Wednesday January 20th, Victory Boulevard will become the access to/from Tompkinsville Station and Hannah Street will become emergency only.Stapleton Station is at Cebra Avenue and Bay Street with a north exit to Prospect Street and a south exit to Water Street. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Wed Jan 13 22:51:59 2010, in response to It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 18:09:40 2010. Very soon there will be reports, rumors and postings on the forums and possibly the media that folks are getting free rides from the Stapleton station, and headed south. Some might even post that folks are WALKING from the Stapleton station to the ferry for a free ride to Manhattan, even though the distance is rather long. As if there is any time-advantage to such a journey, let alone a transportation advantage for such a trek.There may be indeed be outraged citizens reporting folks taking a bus from the ferry terminal to the Stapleton station, and then catching the train from there, as if the non-rush hour 30 and 60 minute waits between trains were not enough of a discouragement. As always the debate was never really about ridership and the few who actually ever used the Tompkinsville station and a short trek to the ferry terminal -- but really was more about the idea that there are folks who could in theory "beat the system". On Staten Island one can always catch the "next" ferry, even if that one is not the one you wanted, or that you're now 30 or 60 minutes late to your destination. Rush hour frequencies of 15 and 20 minutes between boats is not heaven - make no mistake about that. It had been established through the rush hour and regular train schedules, the number and frequency of trains that actually stop at the Tompkinsville station, the timing and frequency of ferry service - made such a trek ill-advised for persons who actually wanted to catch the ferry with any sort of timeliness was rather small. This was debated on the forums repeatedly, some using theory, while others using actual facts on the ground. When the boats run at 30 and 60 minutes apart - does anyone really believe that most folks will gladly sit out a boat when they actually HAVE get to a destination, especially on time? There are plenty of times when the SIR train does not make the boat, and I have seen plenty of steamed folk -- and there are plenty of times when the SIR train arrives just before the boat was ready to leave. Leaving little time for someone to walk the distance, and still catch that same boat. So from now on the debate - will move to the Stapleton station, where folks will again be "up in arms" about a supposed free ride on the SIR and the ferries. Even if such a trek is unlikely to produce any time benefit, unlikely to produce actual numbers of folks making such a trek, unlikely to ever be used by the majority of persons commenting upon such a journey -- that wont' stop them from saying something. Why folks will be "up in arms" - because it is the idea that somebody can "beat the system". That idea rather than anything else drives this discussion, it is the hidden agenda. The idea that somebody somewhere is getting something for free, that irks others, that drives the impetus to DO SOMETHING! So let the new debate (or rather the old debate) begin. Mike |
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Re: |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 13 23:03:45 2010, in response to It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 18:09:40 2010. That doesn't make it clear that Tompkinsville is a fare-paid station. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 23:11:27 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Wed Jan 13 22:51:59 2010. But as you've said, the only way riders can do this now is by walking from/to the Stapleton Station. Taking a bus from/to the station would incur a $2.25 fare.I'm thinking if the M.T.A. feels necessary, Stapleton may be next. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 13 23:19:29 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 23:11:27 2010. Perhaps some entrepreneurs can start a fifty cent van shuttle between Stapleton and the Ferry :) |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jan 14 10:01:30 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Wed Jan 13 22:51:59 2010. Most people who got on/off at Tompkinsville were either transferring to/from buses, or walking to their St. George destinations, not boarding the ferry. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jan 14 10:46:04 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jan 14 10:01:30 2010. From a previous message: "Most people who got on/off at Tompkinsville were either transferring to/from buses, or walking to their St. George destinations, not boarding the ferry."I KNOW that, and you KNOW - and I know that you have said so plenty of times, and so did I - but that still did not stop the debate, and the other carrying on statements. This issue was not about the facts on the ground, but just the idea that somebody somewhere just might be able to get a free ride under conditions that just had to be just right, it was just possible to do so, even if it was not practical or frequent. So I am not going to be terribly surprised when the debate stirs up again, because it will. Just because somebody somewhere at sometime just might get .... Mike |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jan 14 10:49:11 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 23:11:27 2010. One aspect of this issue, again was not about actual numbers of folk taking such a trek.One aspect about this issue was the publicity, that plenty of folks on the forums, in the New York Times and other media were talking about it, pushed the MTA to act. The facts on the ground, actually did not matter. It was the talking about it - that mattered. Mike |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by ebtmikado on Thu Jan 14 11:10:18 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jan 14 10:01:30 2010. It will be interesting to see figures for boardings/exits at Tompkinsville and St. George. If compared with a few weeks ago,it could show how many were destined to St. George, but walked. Lee |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jan 14 11:51:52 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Wed Jan 13 22:51:59 2010. LOL....!As a former Staten Islander..I can support everything you've said. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jan 14 11:56:04 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Thu Jan 14 10:49:11 2010. Folks don't realize..its not a "short walk" from Tompkinsville to St George..walking Up a hill..dodging dangerous traffic crossing Bay st..It's not worth it.. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Jan 14 13:14:13 2010, in response to Re:, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 13 23:03:45 2010. That doesn't make it clear that Tompkinsville is a fare-paid station."Metrocard(R)...is accepted for both entering and leaving the railway at both locations as well" Why would the station accept Metrocard if it didn't cost to get in? |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jan 14 13:40:18 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by ebtmikado on Thu Jan 14 11:10:18 2010. Until very recently the Tompkinsville station, like all of the other stations did not have turnstyles. None of the stations (except St. George and now Tompkinsville) had turnstyles even for the purpose of counting those who pass by. Thus the ridership numbers were kept at St. George, not at the other stations, because there's no way to count them.That is not to say that the train operators and management do or do not have a sense of where the ridership is located, and the relative numbers or amounts. It is that there's few quantifiable figures to use in the discussion. Since there was / is no way to count the ridership at any of the other stations, that left the debate up in the air of speculation. Well over a decade ago, when there were conductors on the trains, who collected fares, and issued tickets, there was a way to count the ridership. There isn't now, the train personnel now serve a different function. A point that needed to be stressed. Mike |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Jan 14 19:53:13 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Thu Jan 14 10:46:04 2010. On the same basis, then, why is nothing being done about those who use a free MetroCard subway-to-subway transfer to reenter the system at, say, 59/Lex to make a round trip on one fare? That may be as much of a problem as people exiting for free at Tompkinsville. And what about all the other free rides on SIR between stations without turnstiles?I'm just a bit puzzled at why the one case would be seen as a serious problem whereas the others are not. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by B1bus on Thu Jan 14 20:21:19 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Jan 14 19:53:13 2010. That is not explained to the public in the same matter.It is described as a transfer from the 4,5,6 to the F. I have only seen that description on THIS board. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jan 14 20:35:02 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Jan 14 19:53:13 2010. 1) I have not tried to use the out-of-system-transfer between the F-train and any of the trains at 59th Street-Lexington Avenue, so I really do not know about the setup.2) I suspect that there is a turn-style, and that one must pass through that turn-style with a MetroCard. If that is the case, I suppose that the reader may check the card to see if it has been used recently, and thus grants a transfer, or if not deducts a fare. 3) I am curious as to how does one use this transfer for a full-round trip on one fare? 4) I also suspect that the members of the various transit forums are not talking about this issue to a great degree, nor has it been picked by the NY Times or other major papers. Just some off the cuff thoughts. Mike |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 15 01:03:04 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Thu Jan 14 20:35:02 2010. 1. OK2. Yes. The stations are laid out in the normal fashion. 3. By exiting from one of the stations and re-entering that same station within two hours of one's initial subway entry. It's like riding two buses or a bus and subway for a one fare round trip except that it allows a perfectly symmetrical round trip. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Jan 15 11:21:27 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Jan 14 19:53:13 2010. I'm sure the number of people doing that is small. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by B1bus on Sun Jan 17 07:22:04 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 15 01:03:04 2010. Also, there is NO additional transfer to a bus. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Jan 17 09:31:16 2010, in response to It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 18:09:40 2010. Or, it's high time that the MTA make the entire system an arrangement like the Bx12 SBS in the Bronx---a fare-paid zone. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Jan 17 11:49:49 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Jan 17 09:31:16 2010. When Rudy G. was in office there were discussions on the forums about the then new "one city - one fare" program that was proposed as a part of the Gold MetroCards. Besides the Staten Island Ferry becoming free, one issue at the time was the lack of turnstyles at any of the SIR stations except St. George.Folks on the forum boards went round and round about the fare collection on the SIR. After a while, the basic concensus was that it would be just too expensive to outfit each of the stations with turnstyles and MetroCard machines compared to the amount in additional fares in theory that would ever be collected. Since the majority of the riders of the SIR use it to transfer to the Ferry, where the fares are collected, and large majorities of riders use buses to reach the SIR, the amounts of "un-captured fares" was deemed small. That is the number of folks who travel between the stations and then get off - plenty use the buses where their fares are captured. Leaving a smaller number of folk who might use that setup to their advantage - the creation of the myth of thousands of folks leaving at Tompkinsville and walking to the ferry without paying for the SIR. So yes, the fare system has been debated before. Mike |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by 156n3rd on Sun Jan 17 12:24:41 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Sun Jan 17 11:49:49 2010. When you use a public transit system, even for just one stop, you still have to/and should pay. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 17 14:29:33 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by 156n3rd on Sun Jan 17 12:24:41 2010. That's normative. |
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Re: |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 17 16:44:30 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Jan 14 13:14:13 2010. Why would the station accept Metrocard if it didn't cost to get in?All it says is that Metrocard isn't rejected. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Jan 17 16:47:36 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by 156n3rd on Sun Jan 17 12:24:41 2010. From a previous message: "When you use a public transit system, even for just one stop, you still have to/and should pay."It is not that the riders should not pay for the service, but there are limits to what is feasible, affordable, and accomplishes the goals that one sets out. As I said before most of the debate on this issue was about the idea that somebody somewhere might "beat the system". That idea rather than anything else drives this discussion, it is the hidden agenda. The idea that somebody somewhere is getting something for free, that irks others, that drives the impetus to DO SOMETHING! The Stapleton station is 1.25 miles from the ferry terminal. Now just how many people are going to get off at that station, and WALK to the ferry terminal to catch the ferry just for a "free ride" into Manhattan? Let alone to do while trying to make an appointment? That is what the debate is about, folks who seem to be unable to live with the idea that somebody somewhere might get something for free, even if in actual practice it is actually rather difficult to achieve. Mike |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 17 17:20:34 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Sun Jan 17 16:47:36 2010. there are limits to what is feasible, affordable, and accomplishes the goals that one sets outYou don't know what the upper limits are until you shoot for them. Ever heard of charging what the market will bear? That is what the debate is about, folks who seem to be unable to live with the idea that somebody somewhere might get something for free, even if in actual practice it is actually rather difficult to achieve What exactly do you mean by that? The "someone (who gets) something for free" gets it on the backs of others who do pay. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Jan 17 21:58:21 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 17 17:20:34 2010. Please read the entire stream of this message thread, it will answer the questions that you have raised, without me repeating myself.But if I were to repeat myself, it would be to say that my point has been proven, what irks folk like yourself - is the idea that a small group of folk whose numbers are too small to reliably detect - just might get in theory something for free, and that irks other folk into saying stuff, and wanting to DO SOMETHING about a problem that is really very small in size. Again, read the whole message thread. Mike |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 17 23:16:24 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Sun Jan 17 21:58:21 2010. if I were to repeat myself, it would be to say that my point has been provenHow does repeating yourself say that? what irks folk like yourself - is the idea that a small group of folk whose numbers are too small to reliably detect - just might get in theory something for free, and that irks other folk into saying stuff, and wanting to DO SOMETHING about a problem that is really very small in size No, I don't find that particularly irksome. However, I suspect that being called on your opinions which you're stating as fact is something you find irksome. Plenty of people sneak on and off HBLR for free when there are no fare inspectors around too. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 17 23:17:45 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Thu Jan 14 13:40:18 2010. Since there was / is no way to count the ridership at any of the other stationsThere's always a way. And it's "turnstiles". |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 17 23:20:58 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Michael549 on Thu Jan 14 10:46:04 2010. You're defending this with much rhetoric. Must be you getting the free rides, hmm. |
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Re: It's Official outside Staten Island too (SIR) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 17 23:21:52 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by 156n3rd on Wed Jan 13 18:52:09 2010. Care to clarify? |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jan 18 00:19:37 2010, in response to It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 18:09:40 2010. Not many folks will walk between Stapleton and the Ferry just for a free ride. I guess that's good. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jan 18 10:36:13 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 17 23:16:24 2010. The bottom line on Fare Collection for the SIR was that the annual cost of Installation and maintenance of the collection equipment would not be as cost effective as allowing the relatively small percentage of riders whose trips DON'T terminate or originate in St. George a free ride. It was also determined that a large number of these 'free' riders transferred to/from buses on their trip, meaning they would have had a free transfer anyway.The bigger problem with the elimination of the fare between stations was an increase in crime and vandalism on the trains, as there were no longer conductors or trainmen walking through the cars every other stop. That aside, a new look should be taken towards using a POP system for fare collection on the SIR, identical to what is used for the Bx12 SBS service. But again, would the cost of implementation equal to the anticipated recovery rate? My guess is no. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Jan 18 19:10:39 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jan 18 10:36:13 2010. The bigger problem with the elimination of the fare between stations was an increase in crime and vandalism on the trains, as there were no longer conductors or trainmen walking through the cars every other stop.Which was why back in 1997 no S.I. elected official wanted or supported the "free" SIR/Ferry fare. The various civic groups along the SIR also did not support the "free" fare for the reasons you have stated. All would be happy to see the MTA install fare collection equipment, and perhaps someday they will. But it's no use bring facts up here when it comes to the SIR fare collection issue. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 18 19:39:37 2010, in response to It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 18:09:40 2010. There's a new SI Advance article on the Tompkinsville and it had a little piece of info that I haven't seen before!It cost the MTA $6.9 MILLION to rebuild Tompkinsville so that they can collect only "$702,000 in additional fare revenues annually". It'll take at least 9-10 years before they break even! |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 18 19:50:33 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 18 19:39:37 2010. The $6.9 million part seems high, but I haven't actually seen what was done there apart from adding turnstiles. The $702,000 figure, however, seems wildly high, especially given what has been posted. I doubt that the few people who exited there could account for that much revenue, but I guess we'll see in a year or so when ridership figures for Tompkinsville and St. George are released. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 18 19:54:26 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jan 18 10:36:13 2010. "The bigger problem with the elimination of the fare between stations was an increase in crime and vandalism on the trains, as there were no longer conductors or trainmen walking through the cars every other stop."But how much of an increase? After all, the SIR is now operated just like any other subway train. If conductors are needed to prevent crime on SIR trains, why not on all subway routes? |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 18 22:36:37 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 18 19:54:26 2010. If conductors are needed to prevent crime on SIR trains, why not on all subway routes?Indeed; why not. I'd be for a conductor in every second car, even. |
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Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Jan 19 10:49:29 2010, in response to Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 18 19:54:26 2010. How much of an increase? It's hard to say; crime went from near zero to several incidents a week. Vandalism of the equipment went from near zero to scratchiti everywhere, some broken windows, ads torn down, stickers removed from doors and walls...People are less likely to damage something they pay for. |
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NYCT statement Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Jan 19 14:56:45 2010, in response to It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Jan 13 18:09:40 2010. NYCT statement follows. I am especially interested in how they computed the $702k annual revenue figure.MTA New York City Transit January 18th, 2010 Press Release IMMEDIATE #7 Charles F. Seaton Deirdre K. Parker Tompkinsville Fare Collection Begins On Staten Island Railway MTA NYC Transit announces that effective Wednesday, January 20, 2010, MTA Staten Island Railway will begin fare collection at the newly constructed Tompkinsville Stationhouse. The $6.9 million Tompkinsville Fare Collection Project included the construction of a station house entrance, the installation of turnstiles, cameras, fare vending and communications equipment. With the introduction of MetroCards on the SIR in 1997, onboard fare collection was eliminated. All fare collection was handled at the St. George Ferry Terminal. As local ridership has grown, the overall system revenue loss is now estimated at about $3.4 million annually. As a result of a comprehensive analysis, a low turnstile, remotely monitored and controlled system was recommended for the Tompkinsville Station. As part of this project, the Hannah Street entrance/exit will be closed. The installation of turnstiles and cameras at one of the busiest stations on the line is expected to bring in about $702,000 in annual revenue which represents a 15% increase in total SIR fare revenue. The new stationhouse will also provide a much needed sheltered waiting area for customers. There is a closed circuit television system (CCTV) and customer assistance intercoms (CAI) to monitor the turnstile area and provide an extra level of security for customers. The intercoms enable customers to communicate with SIR employees who can assist them. The MetroCard Automated Fare Collection (AFC) software has been modified so that customers boarding and paying at Tompkinsville can ride the one stop to St. George and swipe out, but they will still have their free transfer to use on a subway or bus when they reach Manhattan All morning and evening peak period local trains will now stop at Stapleton and Tompkinsville stations thus increasing service to these stations. New train schedules are available at the St. George Terminal and on line at www.mta.info. |
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Re: NYCT statement Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR) |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue Jan 19 15:07:12 2010, in response to NYCT statement Re: It's Official In Staten Island! (SIR), posted by trainsarefun on Tue Jan 19 14:56:45 2010. It's mind boggling - - Spending $9.2 milllion and getting back only $702,000 in fare revenue (which will be less since smarter people will use Stapleton as the exit station and walk to the ferry.).It will take 12 years to recover the amount spent on building the fare control area and stationhouse at Tompkinsville. |
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