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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 15 22:16:22 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 15 21:20:08 2009. Yes, I agree with that idea. Still so many localities have done so much with transit lately... Is it all federal money, or are they doing it on their own. Or a %age of each.ROAR |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sun Nov 15 22:19:16 2009, in response to Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Nov 15 12:03:36 2009. If PATH can be FRA, why can't other transit lines too? It's not that hard. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 15 22:21:06 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Nov 15 21:58:36 2009. Yes, those were honest men, and you knew where they stood and what they stood for. Too bad the running dog liberal sucking press smeared them so badly.ROARING ☺ |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 15 22:23:18 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 15 22:08:54 2009. Then don't try to regulate my side of the third rail! ☺☺☺ROAR |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 15 22:35:05 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 15 22:16:22 2009. Sounds like all they're planning on is setting standards and expectations for safety purposes, pretty much what FRA is already doing for the class ones. My angle with the federal funding (if any on a particular system) is merely what would pass for "justification" (a very important word in gubbamitese) ...I'd work on getting some more lions together to protect your system - revenooers ahoy! :) |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 15 22:36:48 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 15 22:23:18 2009. Wouldn't think of it! Somehow I suspect your protection boards are made of compressed rice. :) |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by ctrabs74 on Sun Nov 15 23:08:27 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Nov 15 21:11:29 2009. I think what Obama administration wants to do is setup a separate agency within USDOT that would have oversight and regulatory authority over public transit enterprises that operate rail passenger service on non common carrier tracks.With all due respect, John, I believe your analysis is incorrect. From the article that you linked: Under the administration's proposal, states that kept their oversight bodies would have to pass safety certification programs and demonstrate that they had an adequately trained staff, as well as financial independence and authority to compel compliance from systems they oversee. States running their own programs would receive federal funds to cover salaries, training and other expenses. Federal regulations would ensure that the state programs established standards similar to those set by federal monitors. The Federal Transit Administration would assume direct oversight for states that opt out of safety monitoring. The agency also would take over for state organizations that the administration determined to be inadequate. If subway or light-rail systems did not meet the new safety standards, they would risk losing federal funding for capital expenditures, according to an administration official who was briefed on the plan. Transit systems would be responsible for shouldering the cost of complying with new federal safety requirements. The plan would also allow the FTA to issue safety regulations for bus transit systems, but officials said early efforts would focus on rail. I am interpreting this as having the existing FTA act as the regulatory authority should this proposal go forward. I would suspect that there will be hearings at the federal levels and that the transit agencies - and to an extent, the unions - are going to have some say over this. Elsewhere in the thread, there was mention that NYCTA employees on the subway side could potentially be covered under the same federal laws that cover railroad (ie. MNRR and LIRR) employees. I doubt that would be the case, considering how much influence organized labor has in the White House and the Democrat controlled Congress. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by ctrabs74 on Sun Nov 15 23:16:21 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Nov 15 22:19:16 2009. Because unlike other transit lines, PATH was originally chartered as a railroad by the federal government (the Hudson and Manhattan) and not a subway/rapid transit line.Although, realistically, how many states regulate safety standards on transit lines? AFAIK, the only regulation that I'm aware of is PennDOT performing annual inspection of all railcars (and, for PennDOT purposes, even though they are registered like a standard diesel bus complete with "Mass Transit" license plates, the trackless trolley fleet at SEPTA are issued the same inspection stickers as the El, Broad Street Subway, trolleys, and P&W rail cars). And weren't there standards already in place by the FTA? |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Nov 16 00:30:45 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by ctrabs74 on Sun Nov 15 23:08:27 2009. The last sentence you quoted from the Washington Post article leads me to believe, that when all is said and done it will be a separate oversight and regulatory agency within USDOT.The plan would also allow the FTA to issue safety regulations for bus transit systems, but officials said early efforts would focus on rail. I don't see the FRA setting up an apparatus to regulate the bus operation of the various public transit properties. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 16 00:33:26 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Nov 16 00:30:45 2009. The FRA doesn't do light rail or subways either, except in the case of PATH (which is FRA) and with time-sharing waivers. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Nov 16 00:50:31 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 15 21:20:08 2009. It actually would make some sense given that federal money is taking on more and more of the funding for the systems ...Actually not, FTA capital matching grants for new construction over the last 20 years have gone down as a percentage of the total cost. The first roughly 30 percent of WMATA's miles were funded at 80% federal 20% local split. Most recent splits have gone the other way 60% local 40% federal. Some were built with little or no federal funding. The second phase of the Dulles Corridor metrorail Project (WMATA's N Route Silver line) will be built with no federal capital matching grants. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Nov 16 01:58:42 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 15 19:08:45 2009. Heh. Oh stoppit ... I can see the drool from here at your chances of becoming a choochoo czar. :)The press release says that the Secretary of Transportation has already appointed some doctor guy out of Reno, NV as the Transit Czar. I forget the name. The #2 will be a young Venician man residing in NJ who is rumored to be the McAdoo and Tesla of the 21st Century |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 16 01:59:56 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by SMAZ on Mon Nov 16 01:58:42 2009. Heh. Ya gotta move fast in the transit biz ... unless you're a train of course. :) |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by ctrabs74 on Mon Nov 16 08:46:05 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Nov 16 00:30:45 2009. I guess we shall wait and see. It just seems a little redundant to create a new agency when an existing federal agency seems capable to perform the functions required of this new proposal.But, that's Washington for you (and before anyone interprets this as a direct criticism of the Obama Administration, just remember the creation of the Dept. of Homeland Security under Bush 43). |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 16 08:50:35 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by ctrabs74 on Mon Nov 16 08:46:05 2009. LION will give ewe a pass.Come join the lion for breakfast. ROAR |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 16 09:32:35 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 16 00:33:26 2009. Wow, the PATH RR Cars meet FRA crash worthiness standards? |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by straphanger9 on Mon Nov 16 11:21:26 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 16 01:59:56 2009. that's what she said |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by f179dj on Mon Nov 16 11:41:57 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by SMAZ on Mon Nov 16 01:58:42 2009. LOL. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Nov 16 12:14:22 2009, in response to Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Nov 15 12:03:36 2009. This smacks of socialism but in the MTA's case, I'd welcome takeover by the Feds. Maybe then the utter incompetence that is the MTA will be exposed. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 16 12:17:21 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Nov 16 12:14:22 2009. What "utter incompetence", Mitch? The subway gets me to where I need to go, and afaik Metro-North and the LIRR do the same for their riders. |
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Posted by MGL on Mon Nov 16 12:27:39 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Nov 15 15:37:23 2009. Your right. But absent a flagman there should be a better system in place.Michael |
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Posted by MGL on Mon Nov 16 12:33:50 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Nov 15 19:05:45 2009. If that's what it takes, yes. The article states that those agencies that that come in to compliance with centralized regulations will have minimal oversight. Those that don't, or chose not to, will have safety handled for them.I see this as being for the benefit of the Public as well as Employees. Michael |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by MGL on Mon Nov 16 12:38:51 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Nov 15 21:29:42 2009. Thanks for the background info. I'm sure that Washington Metro is not the only transit agency lacking in system safety or turning a blind eye to shortcuts taken.Michael |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 16 12:43:16 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Nov 16 00:50:31 2009. I don't believe the FTA really provides operating funds for the transit agencies, does it? |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 16 12:57:33 2009, in response to Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Nov 15 12:03:36 2009. Ugh! So we are taking federal money to create yet another organization to demand mandates on local transit systems without providing funding for them to follow those guidelines (Positive Train Control and Homeland Security come to mind).Transit systems throughout the county vary as much as the agency's ability to pay for upgrades in safety. I doubt someone would think that the NYC Subway is the same as the LA Metro Light Rail System, or that WMATA's system is the same as SEPTA's Norristown High Speed Line, or that MUNI's F Market Trolley is the same as Pittsburgh's Inclines. And don't get me started on bus systems! They all have different needs in regards of safety! I'd support helping states establish "safety agencies" that is regulated locally, and let the FTA provide advise when requested, rather than the supreme boss. Local agencies are the experts on the systems, not a distant agency. Why don't they focus on WMATA's shortcomings instead of doing yet another knee-jerk reaction to encompass the entire nation? |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon Nov 16 13:11:35 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Nov 16 12:14:22 2009. This smacks of socialismTransit was socialized back in 1940 - whether it is run by the feds or by the state is just semantics to me... |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 16 13:26:12 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 16 12:57:33 2009. What do you expect from a socialist? |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 16 13:40:53 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by BMTLines on Sun Nov 15 12:37:07 2009. DC is and always has been a special case. For instance, DC Transit buses to Maryland were subject to ICC regulation because they crossed a state line. Thus all of the buses to MD were a few inches narrower than the 'standard' transit buses for DC use only. So the huge insanity of two states and the District having a Transit Authority with heavy political pressure from the states not always in consort w/ DC needs AND our friends in Congress butting in every so often makes it all a bit more difficult. Remember a right wing(nut) Congressman got a bill through ordering WMATA to change all the signs in the stations from National to Reagan, but no funding. Bottom line, IMHO this regulation would be best handled by FRA because we are talking rail here, and although the rules could be different, an FRA inspector assigned to the DC area could do CSX Monday and WMATA on Tuesday. |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Nov 16 13:47:06 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by SMAZ on Mon Nov 16 01:58:42 2009. Was that Venician or Fauxnician? I heard a lot of static on the radio during last night's shitstorm.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 16 13:47:23 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 16 12:57:33 2009. Because it is OBVIOUS that WMATA is in need of oversight from someone. FRA IMHO has the expertise. Why you ask? Because a Fed agency w/ Fed authority can insist on an inspection unlike the current case where WMATA has refused access to inspectors/monitors from a tripartite commission which supposedly exists to oversee safety.As to Steve's socialist claim, FRA, NTSB, FAA, et al are all government entities. Among other benefits, they attempt to decrease accidents which I see as a public good. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 16 14:22:21 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by nasadowsk on Sun Nov 15 19:48:43 2009. states rights were settled at Appomattox.Do you really want different safety standards in each state? different traffic signals? different block signals? We have fairly clear evidence that in at least one recent Amtrak case a wreck occurred partially because the engineer mis interpreted the aspect on NS(former PRR/C&WI joint trackage) because he was more used to a different aspect system on other routes. There should be no problem having separate standards for isolated (from the national rail network) and non isolated systems, but having rail safety experts used to rail issues seems the right path. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Nov 16 16:05:56 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 15 21:55:04 2009. How is this different from Bush? (Answer, it's not --and the right didn't complain then). |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Nov 16 16:07:07 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 15 22:01:43 2009. It's a shame you don't realize how biased your sources are. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by MGL on Mon Nov 16 16:08:58 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 16 12:57:33 2009. "I'd support helping states establish "safety agencies" that is regulated locally, and let the FTA provide advise when requested, rather than the supreme boss. Local agencies are the experts on the systems, not a distant agency."My interpretation of the brief article states as much. Those agencies that have an effective system safety program in place and that is effective should have minimal interference from the Federal Government. Those that do not, better shape up. Nothing wrong with outside objective inspections from time to time. Michael |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 16 16:15:38 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 15 18:28:38 2009. tax cheats? yup, Geithner, Summers, Bernanke, and that whole clique--BUT THEY are not leftists. And as to mindless, I take umbrage, after all, I do not insult you as mindless merely because you believe in a deity I don't. Perhaps some more time reading liberation theology is called for. Until the least among us is well provided for this polity is a travesty. and on that basis, IMHO, ALL of the super rich are tax cheats because having bought the Congress, they do not contribute enough to eliminate poverty.Now, if you object to czars, perhaps Tsar (the correct spelling) or if you prefer Basileos Autokrator would be more comfortable? |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 16 16:16:41 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 15 22:21:06 2009. Cheney honest??? May I sell you a bridge? |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 16 16:39:03 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 16 13:47:23 2009. Because it is OBVIOUS that WMATA is in need of oversight from someone.Yes, I agree that it's very obvious. What does WMATA's system have to do with TriMet's LRT, though? The problem with this proposal is that instead of focusing specifically on the system that is having severe issues lately, the administration suddenly made it a national issue. Why not handle each problem at a time, especially when the problem happened right in DC's Metropolitan area! Besides, WMATA is a bi-state (with a district for good measure) agency. How many other transit agencies are set up in such a manner that aren't Port Authority services? The worst part is that any mandate made has to be completely funded by the agency at hand. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Nov 16 19:30:29 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Fred G on Mon Nov 16 13:47:06 2009. I heard a lot of static on the radio during last night's shitstormI had worse luck. I was caught outdoors.   |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Nov 16 20:31:05 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 15 22:01:43 2009. Mark Levin is the LAST person I'd take mass transit advice from (other than Randall O'Toole or Wendell Cox) because he's against it. 77 WABC has the "Mark Levin Rant of the Week". One week, it was "They wanna herd us on mass transit... LIKE SHEEP!!!" That's when he lost me completely. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 16 22:20:02 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by italianstallion on Mon Nov 16 16:05:56 2009. Bush had reasonable aides, Obama does not. Obama has ideologues with little expertize in the areas to which they were appointed.And BTW: The right *DID* object to many of the things that Bush did. After all, Bush was not a Conservative. ROAR |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 16 22:20:52 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by italianstallion on Mon Nov 16 16:07:07 2009. And *YOUR* sources are not biased? Give me a break!ROAR |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Nov 16 22:25:25 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Nov 16 12:43:16 2009. I don't believe the FTA really provides operating funds for the transit agencies, does it?Capital grants for facilities and fleet purchases, yes. Operations expenses, no. Though there has been some noise over the years made by the Washington DC area congressional delegation to get the federal government to appropriate funds for WMATA on the grounds that federal government employees benefit from its existence. Congress passed a law back in July that provides federal dedicated annual funding for WMATA. The split will be 50% federal 50% local. The legislatures of the State Maryland and the Commonwealth of Virginia will need to appropriate funds in their next sessions, DC has already committed their share. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 16 22:40:21 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 16 16:16:41 2009. Yes, Cheney honest.And I already *have* a bridge. ROAR |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 16 22:43:59 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Nov 16 20:31:05 2009. I am aware of his position on mass transit, and think that his position on that is full of fecal matter. There is nobody out there who can get everything right. I like his politics much much better than Obama's even if Obama does like mass transit.ROAR |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 16 22:44:47 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 16 22:40:21 2009. Now boarding ... flight 666 to OTchat ... last call!
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Nov 16 23:14:02 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 16 22:20:02 2009. ROTFLMAO. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 17 03:19:57 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by italianstallion on Mon Nov 16 23:14:02 2009. No, he's correct. |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 17 03:22:16 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by MGL on Mon Nov 16 12:33:50 2009. If that's what it takes, yesNo, that's never "what it takes". You don't create a bigger problem thinking it can solve a smaller one. (OK to substitute "bureaucracy" for the word "problem".) |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 17 03:23:12 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 15 19:10:24 2009. That ain't no "ism". |
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Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 17 03:24:36 2009, in response to Re: Obama administration proposing federal oversight of subways and light rail, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 16 14:22:21 2009. This ain't about standards, but about "oversight", i.e. growing the government in DC. |
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