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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 01:20:08 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by 33rd Street on Sun Mar 22 12:16:09 2009. In addition the tracks do not extend PAST the platform into what your drawing says would be a tunnel of a short length.In fact the tracks at the terminal are in plain sight of, and along the platform that end in a bumper block. One can indeed walk through the area and up to the bumper blocks. Yes, I was told that there is a passageway for TA staff between the old and new South Ferry station. Earlier when someone showed pictures that they had taken of the new terminal. What the passengers and riders wanted was a passageway that they the riders could actually use between the old and new terminals which they the riders did not get. I believe that you 33rd Street are right about the distance of the cross-over track switches. Somehow the distance between the flat junction and the cross-over switches seems shorter than the diagram seens to indicate. Just my thoughts. Mike |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 01:33:00 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 22 13:39:27 2009. From a previous message: "Yeah, I looking through pics on NYC subway.org, I foound the temporary headhouse that was in use in the mid 2000s...I'd forgotten all about it. But didn't that lead into the station from a different direction- like near the TO's position or something? There were wooden boards over the regular passageway, as it comes back to me, right?"The temporary entrance was used while the new terminal was being built, but whether that temporary entrance was used or the main entrance (that was recently closed a week ago) - station really only had one entrance/exit in operation at one time, an either or situation. Why does it matter to many South Ferry riders whether the entrance to the #1 subway station in located inside the Ferry terminal or outside the Ferry terminal some minutes away? Simple - it has to do with connections. The majority of Ferry riders have to make connections to buses, the SIR or the subways, etc. usually at both ends of their journey, very few riders only have to ride the ferry as their sole vehicle. Thus the ease of connections between these facilities becomes very important. The ferry schedule with boats running at 30 and 60 minutes apart, and on Staten Island with the buses and SIR often timed to the ferry schedule - means that missing a connection means being late, often very late. Even though the new subway terminal is a few steps away outside from the ferry terminal doorways - it means dealing with rainy days, snowy days and other bad weather days just to get to and from the subway trains. Yes, riders to/from Bowling Green also have to deal with the weather, and plenty of times there are folks running to the ferry terminal to not miss a boat. The six months of NYC's bad weather does take a toll on one's spirit, with all of the other hassles of commuting about town. Mike |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 01:57:02 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 01:33:00 2009. "Even though the new subway terminal is a few steps away outside from the ferry terminal doorways - it means dealing with rainy days, snowy days and other bad weather days just to get to and from the subway trains. Yes, riders to/from Bowling Green also have to deal with the weather, and plenty of times there are folks running to the ferry terminal to not miss a boat."The weather excuse is nonsense. The #1 train and R,W trains run frequently, so there is no excuse for "missing the boat" and the short walk between the Ferry terminal and the new station will not cause a problem except to a whiner looking for an excuse. Yes the boat leaves every 30-60 minutes. You want to be on time to Manhattan? Don't get on the SI Railway too late to catch your ferry (and that part has nothing to do with South Ferry!) Want to make sure you're on time getting back to SI? Select the boat departure you need to connect with the SI Railway or SI bus you need from the ferry schedule, then make sure you're at your starting subway stop with a little lead time. If you miss the Ferry it's strictly your own fault, not because of the new subway station. In the future it's certainly possible the TA will make a biogger or connecting canopy for the convenience of passemgers; the station's design does not preclude it. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 23 02:12:18 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 01:57:02 2009. One DOES have to wonder though if there was a previous "hallway" or other "inside connector" (sorry, I only knew the OLD ferry terminal - never been in the "new" one) why it wasn't in some way incorporated into the design of the new station even IF the new station comes with additional "niceties?"I can understand the need to maintain the "old" arrangements until the new station was ready and all, but why not try to put that back into use now that the old station is completed? I mean after all, this is NYC where people pop umbrellas for drizzle under some sort of almost "Gremlins" quality "don't get them wet" kinda social way of life. The one thing I always found humorous (and now that I live upstate, it's even more a head shaker) is that there's nothing wrong with getting wet unless you're wearing old style polyester ... but I can see it being a major issue since NYC folks are like cats in not wanting to ever get wet. :) |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 02:14:34 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 23 02:12:18 2009. It's possible the TA will address that. If people call or write and ask the agency to look into it, it will. The new station doesn't preclude it. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 23 02:20:26 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 02:14:34 2009. Just kinda surprising that it wasn't part of the plan as long as they were already digging all those holes. :)I've done the ferry thing a long time ago, and it's often a salty, misty ride ... so maybe SI'ers are being given more credit in this design than others might expect for their natural endurance for wetness. I just find it amusing though that this is an issue ... but then again, I can also see not wanting to get splashed with the muck that accumulates when it snows down there. Up where I live, you do your farming in the pouring rain just like any sunny day. So you get wet, no biggie ... and on a hot summer day, getting doused is a mitzvah. Heh. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 02:25:24 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 23 02:20:26 2009. 8-) |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 23 10:02:05 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 23 02:12:18 2009. You're right in that in the "old" (1950s) South Ferry terminal, one had to go outside to get to the IRT Station. As part of the reconstruction of the ferry terminal earlier this decade, pax transferring between the #1 and the ferry did not have to go outside- the new terminal's "lobby" was confirgured in such a way that you could go right to (and from) the IRT fare control area under one roof. While this was not an exigent matter to deal with, it was sort of a plum for the terminal reconstructions.But the new subway station wasn't taken into account in this planning. While I don't know for sure, I'd imagine the new ferry building was planned/designed (I know it was TALKED about) long before 9-11. During the new terminal's construction, there was a lot of back and forth about a new subway station, and the Second Avenue Subway. Ultimately, the Staten Island politicians agreed to support the SAS in exchange for Shelly Silver's support of a new IRT station at SF. I do remember that when the new ferry building was opened, the SI Advance touted the new indoor connection to the IRT, but did mention that in just a few years, it would be rendered obsolete by the new station- and that's exactly what happened. Had the loop simply been extended, this issue wouldn't exist, but for whatever (probably good) reason, that didn't happen- a whole new station got built- and undid the improvement to the old one. This may have qualified for the "short-lived-improvements" thread we had about 2 weeks ago. But in any event, the main entrance/exit from South Ferry IRT/Whitehall St is right outside, and I do mean RIGHT outside, the ferry terminal building, and has a canopy to boot. So there's no serious basis for a complaint, IMO. Also, the bus ramps and canopies to the ferry building remain uncomplete, and I'm sure some sort of covered walkway could easily be built. As a final note, it does look like the front of the new ferry buiding will wind up a little different from what was planned before the new IRT station was authorized. Finally, we haven't had any serious precipitation since the new IRT station opened. I wonder how well the new main entryway will deflect rain & snow. Hope this helps! |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 23 10:04:43 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 01:33:00 2009. You're right in that there was just one entry/exitway into the old SF station at any time. But I cannot remember- can you or anyone else- at what end of the station the temporary (mid 00s) headhouse connected? |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Mar 23 10:59:14 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by R42 4787 on Mon Mar 23 01:11:03 2009. Amazing! |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Mar 23 11:14:08 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 01:33:00 2009. OK... Suppose it *is* raining outside.So What! Once you have taken the subway to your destination, how many people can go directly into their buildings without going outside in the rain. Once you have taken the bus from the boat, you still have to walk a few blocks outside to get to your house. And even if you drove your car AND parked it in an indoor parking ramp, you would STILL have to go outside and walk a block or two to get to your building. THE LION DOES NOT BUY YOUR CANARD ABOUT RAINY WEATHER, but will buy the idea that you are a whiny wildebeest waiting in the grass for the LION to find you. Oh yes, and BTW: It is raining out here, and our cows are getting all wet. ROAR |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 11:55:15 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 23 10:04:43 2009. From a previous message: "You're right in that there was just one entry/exitway into the old SF station at any time. But I cannot remember- can you or anyone else- at what end of the station the temporary (mid 00s) headhouse connected? "One walked to the first car of the subway train, and there was a stairway leading to the surface. I have lived about 19 years on Staten Islsnd so transportation and ferry issues have become important to me. Mike |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 12:14:50 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 01:57:02 2009. Why is it considered "whining" when a facility is being planned or built to ask for features that help the users?Years ago when at airports, the riders had to walk up and down long flights of stairs with their carry on luggage to actually get to and from the airplane at the airport, in addition to such walking around the huge place to get to their cars, bus or other transportation. So was it really whining when in the building of new airports, the designers looked at the issue of connecting these various facilities for a more pleasant experience? I do not know who pissed in your corn-flakes this morning, but even with the best transportation system in the universe, but stuff happens. I do not and have never said that the ferry and the MTA are the best transportation system, so therefore no improvements are needed. In the real world - stuff happens - so if we can try to make it better then that is good. Mike |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 12:58:33 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 12:14:50 2009. "Why is it considered "whining" when a facility is being planned or built to ask for features that help the users?"There's a difference between asking for cool features and claiming that a missing feature caused you to miss the Ferry and stranded you for half an hour. The former is reasonable; the latter is childish. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 23 13:15:51 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 11:55:15 2009. OK, thanks. I'm also an SI resident, but I usually use the express bus. I do ride the subway for various errands, and work-related field trips.I'd forgotten all about the temporary entrance/headhouse. It seems like the entrace at the front of the train was the passeway visible in a 1905 pic on nycsubway.org. I guess that stairway was never really eliminated. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Mar 23 13:35:21 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by R42 4787 on Mon Mar 23 01:11:03 2009. Then there's the Fulton St. complex in lower Manhattan. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 23 15:30:19 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 23 10:02:05 2009. Thanks! Should be interesting to see what they end up doing. I'm always amused to see things built with glass in NYC. :) |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 23 16:39:34 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 23 15:30:19 2009. Yeah, most of the buildings in the immediate area, including the one where I work, are glass or at least have LOTS of it. My office building is drafty in the winter, hot as a sauna in the summer (unless we draw the shades before 9 AM. Management actually instructs us to do that), and has sprung some notable leaks in the time I've been here. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 16:40:57 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 12:58:33 2009. From a previous message: "Thus the ease of connections between these facilities becomes very important."It is the EASE OF THE CONNECTIONS, that I clearly mentioned. I never said that the lack of weather protection made someone late. I clearly noted that it was the EASE of making the connections. And as I had clearly said that such ideas should be looked at when DESIGNING and PLANNING the improvements. Mike |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 16:54:40 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 16:40:57 2009. The connection between the Ferry boat and the new South Ferry is VERY easy. An extended canopy would be nice and it may happen if enough people ask for it. But there is nothing difficult about the connection there. On the other hand, the old station offered a horrible connection if you were struggling with bags and no connection at all if you were in a wheelchair. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Mar 23 17:06:36 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 22 13:36:35 2009. Some of us are old NOW. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 23 17:13:19 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 23 16:39:34 2009. Sadly, there are some glass office tower designs that work very well. The Hearst Tower by Columbus Circle being just one of them ... but vandals usually don't take out office building glass all that much, I was thinking more of rocks and that canopy here ... |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Mar 23 17:15:56 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 16:54:40 2009. I'm 6' tall and fat. Instead of a left turn at the bottom of the stairs, and a massive jam of people entering a too-narrow stairway through too-few turnstiles (not to mention the exiting people) at the crush times, it's now 10 steps straight ahead and a pair of escalator rides. Just having more than one way in/out of the station is a major plus.It's an improvement as long as you look at it from the point of view of the average 'I just want to get to/from work. For a railfan, oh no, the loop is gone. Oh, well. We've been over the the weak points of it ad nauseum. So you have to step outside to get on the IRT...from the point of view of Lexington and Broadway line passengers, WELCOME TO OUR WORLD. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 23 17:34:39 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Mar 23 17:15:56 2009. 8-) |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Mar 23 21:41:08 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by Michael549 on Mon Mar 23 12:14:50 2009. I agree-- that is an important connection and it should have been designed better. Common sense dictates that an enclosure should have been constructed if at all possible, especially if the existing station had one. Why spend all that money to take a step backward? Are people who want subway service instead of having to walk to work "whiners?" Maybe people who want ferry service are whiners too-- they should just learn how to swim. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 23 22:45:45 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Mar 23 17:06:36 2009. That depends on your definitions. Do you think a Slant is OLD?? |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 23 22:46:46 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 23 17:13:19 2009. Gotcha. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by error46146 on Mon Mar 23 22:53:45 2009, in response to New South Ferry track map, posted by checkthedoorlight on Fri Mar 20 23:40:47 2009. Nice job!i wonder why they put the switch so far away tho..its gonna be like Jamaica Center on the E |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 24 00:14:30 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by error46146 on Mon Mar 23 22:53:45 2009. It already isn't. South Ferry handles more trains than Jamaica Center does. And the swithes aren't that far away. Go look for yourself. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 24 02:48:00 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Mar 23 21:41:08 2009. It's less than 50 feet... And what ron says is right the boats run on a strict schedule and anyone with common sense gives themselves breathing room to ensure they make the connection. It's the dumb I'm running to the ferry because I choose to wait to the last moment people that are whiners. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 24 02:52:58 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Mar 23 21:41:08 2009. "Are people who want subway service instead of having to walk to work "whiners?"Your misrepresentation of their situation is laughable at best. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Mar 24 10:06:29 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 23 22:45:45 2009. Hell, I never thought that the Arnines were old!ROAR |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 24 12:40:02 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 24 02:48:00 2009. Well, if they used to be able to make the ferry, and now cannot, there has been a downgrade to service for them. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 24 12:41:15 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 24 12:40:02 2009. But since, in fact, they can still make the ferry, there has not been a downgrade in service for them. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 24 12:50:47 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Mar 24 10:06:29 2009. The Lion is truly wise.If you thought the Arnines weren't old, you must think I'm a newborn. Depending on the exact series, the Arnines were between 36 and 28 years older than me. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 24 12:52:28 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 24 00:14:30 2009. I have noticed that the new tunnel already has graffiti. In fact, it did already by 3/18/09. I am not referring to official spray-paint markings (I know the difference), but actual graffiti.Doesn't take long, does it? |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 24 13:01:30 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 24 12:52:28 2009. No, it doesn't. It doesn't take long at all.Dogs need to piss against the tree, you know? |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Mar 24 13:03:22 2009, in response to New South Ferry track map, posted by checkthedoorlight on Fri Mar 20 23:40:47 2009. Why are two parts of the new platform in a faded color? Are these abandoned areas? Already?? |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 24 13:09:35 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Mar 24 13:03:22 2009. Maybe it's like faded prewashed jeans? :0) |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 24 13:58:11 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 22 14:02:30 2009. I think you have that reversed.Whitehall R/W would be connected to Bowling Green, Not the 1 line station. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Mar 24 14:26:40 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Mar 24 13:03:22 2009. Look carefully. Might you say that perhaps the locations with the 'faded' fill colors are areas where one subway line crosses under another one? Wouldn't it then stand to reason that the different color of the platform would indicate that those areas are where the old South Ferry Loop passes over it? |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 24 15:50:39 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 24 13:58:11 2009. He was referring to my suggestion that a new South Ferry station could be constructed at the entrance to the Joralemon St tube for the 4/5 service which according to the map would be beneath the old So Fy loop station but approximately parallel to the BMT Whithall station. If such a station were to be built then an easy transfer could be built connecting to both new So Fy (1), and BMT Whitehall. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 24 15:54:01 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 24 12:50:47 2009. The oldest R-1s were 13 years older than me and the newest R-9s only 5. I'm older than the R-10s |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Subterranean Railway on Tue Mar 24 18:14:52 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 24 12:52:28 2009. The tunnel had been tagged months before the station was even finished. I'm surprised the amount of graffiti isn't any heavier: a tunnel completely devoid of traffic is a rather tempting prospect for writers. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by El-Train on Tue Mar 24 23:53:41 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by Subterranean Railway on Tue Mar 24 18:14:52 2009. I also noticed that the tunnel had been tagged already. What the FUCK man, how the hell do these guys get into the most precarious places in the system?I read on nycsubway.org's piece on the 1980's that the stations along the 21st St Line (or rather their tunnels, I dunno) having been finished a good while before they opened, were tagged before ever seeing a paid customer. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Subterranean Railway on Wed Mar 25 00:17:23 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by El-Train on Tue Mar 24 23:53:41 2009. how the hell do these guys get into the most precarious places in the system?A careful walk from Rector Street would do it. A quick dive down an emergency exit would also work. Although the tunnel is relatively well-lit, it still affords sufficient hiding space for trespassers. Of course, that was irrelevant when the thing wasn't in revenue service . . . If a spot is truly "precarious," it would be completely devoid of graffiti, as are PATH tunnels. the stations along the 21st St Line [ . . . ] were tagged before ever seeing a paid customer. Doesn't surprise me in the slightest, especially given how lax tunnel security was in the 80's. Actually, I'm quite impressed by the cleanliness of the 63rd St. Connector, especially on the non-revenue side, since that section's a favorite of writers seeking to tag the layups. In any case, Homeland Security certainly isn't doing its job! |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Mar 25 01:27:08 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by checkthedoorlight on Sat Mar 21 09:13:36 2009. And that station could still be used in an emergency, so I would leave it that way for now. |
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Re: New South Ferry track map |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Mar 25 01:32:43 2009, in response to Re: New South Ferry track map, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Sat Mar 21 16:48:31 2009. Or as I have said before, have that station be used for Lexington Line trains that would not have nearly the ridership it did for the 1, but would give Ferry riders the option of NOT having to walk to BG for such. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Mar 25 02:56:00 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 24 12:41:15 2009. I'm not so sure about that. I tried it out today. The extra time from the timers in to South Ferry and possibly waiting for a crossover / lineup just outside the terminal, combined with the small amount of extra walking, could add up to 2 minutes.Therefore, it is not unreasonable to suggest that, at certain times, people's "regular train" may no longer make a boat that they once could. For those people, it could be seen as a downgrade. The 15 seconds waiting for the gapfillers to extend seems to have been replaced by 15 seconds waiting for the conductor to change positions so they don't need to cycle the doors after discharging customers. Though, removing the pause at Rector to let people run up, saves one to two minutes. That pause used to be at Chambers while waiting for an express though (or sometimes not at all), when they used to let you cross between cabs to get to the front half if you left Rector in the back. Making it illegal to cross between cars killed that. |
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Re: No excuses please |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 25 11:08:24 2009, in response to Re: No excuses please, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Mar 25 02:56:00 2009. So basically what you are saying is that there is possibly a lengthening of your trip time by up to 2 minutes, which is reduced by other factors, which might mean you get into the station a minute later.It doesn't take 15 seconds for a conductor to chage sides. Maybe 5 extra seconds. Either way what it comes down to is this: The obsession over this issue is limited to autistic foamers on this web board and....nobody else. Kapisch? |
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