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| (637211) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by jb on Fri Jun 20 23:01:22 2008, in response to Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by mkeit on Fri Jun 20 22:46:38 2008. Next week we will have a single track main line with passing siding |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 20 23:11:45 2008, in response to Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by mkeit on Fri Jun 20 22:46:38 2008. At least they still intend to build it:Too bad they had to reduce the size, but the skyrocketing costs and very bad economy in real estate forced this. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (637222) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jun 20 23:15:09 2008, in response to Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by mkeit on Fri Jun 20 22:46:38 2008. Awww. That would've been extremely useful. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Fri Jun 20 23:24:42 2008, in response to Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by mkeit on Fri Jun 20 22:46:38 2008. I didn't even know they originally wanted a three track station at 72 Street. I'm sure there's a reason they originally wanted it that way.Hopefully it doesn't come back to bite them in the ass. |
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| (637226) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jun 20 23:28:32 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by G1Ravage on Fri Jun 20 23:24:42 2008. A 3 track alignment allows either the broadway train or the lower 2nd ave train to short-turn there during periods when the extra service is not warranted on the upper half of the line (late-night). |
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| (637231) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jun 20 23:36:33 2008, in response to Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by mkeit on Fri Jun 20 22:46:38 2008. In a presentation to CB8 this week, the MTA announced that the 72nd St station is being reduced from 3 tracks/2 platforms to a smaller 2 track/center platform configuration to save money. The connection to the 63rd St line is also simplified.Second Avenue Subway PowerPoint Community Board Eight, June 17th , 2008 (7.32 MB PDF file). Not only is it simplified, it's a far more efficient configuration. The #12 turnouts will allow trains to move through junction at higher speeds. The new configuration is nearly identical the configuration of the tracks and junction at L'Enfant Plaza on WMATA metrorail The only thing I would done different is make the #8 double crossover on the south end of the station a #10 and make the #6 double crossover on the north end a #8. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (637237) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jun 20 23:45:02 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jun 20 23:36:33 2008. It also ends any possibility of a terminal at 72nd st. If the full length line is ever built, what is the late night (or even weekend) service pattern. |
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| (637245) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sat Jun 21 00:06:05 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 20 23:11:45 2008. Just like they will force the scrapping of the whole project real soon - can't wait to tell everyone here "I told you so"... |
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| (637251) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Jun 21 00:13:14 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by BMTLines on Sat Jun 21 00:06:05 2008. It seems every time they break ground for the SAS, the economy goes to DA CHIT. Maybe it is some sort of curse? Maybe SAS was never meant to be built? Maybe it will unleash some evil? Maybe history just repeats itself and idiotic governments and politicians are useless just like they always have been? |
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| (637255) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jun 21 00:22:44 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by G1Ravage on Fri Jun 20 23:24:42 2008. the only way that won't happen is if they scrap the whole thing. and that IS NOT my wish. |
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| (637266) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by (5) Bronx Exp on Sat Jun 21 00:35:20 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by G1Ravage on Fri Jun 20 23:24:42 2008. Hopefully it doesn't come back to bite them in the ass.You already know it will. |
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| (637267) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Jun 21 00:36:28 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by (5) Bronx Exp on Sat Jun 21 00:35:20 2008. No, it will bite us and our youngsters. They will still ride limos, that is how it works, they don't give a damn because it doesn't concern them. |
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| (637277) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 00:56:54 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 20 23:11:45 2008. The third track at 72nd Street was in the "nice to have" category but by no means necessary. If it looks like money is coming up short, of course you dump it.I don't see anything disastrous in any of the changes. The cost escalation being looked at now is in future contracts (hence these design changes). The current tunnelling contract is fixed at $339 million and it's the contractor's responsibility to complete it at the agreed-upon price, and is bonded and insured to do so. |
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| (637278) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 00:58:14 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by G1Ravage on Fri Jun 20 23:24:42 2008. It's a superfluous feature. Nice to have, maybe, but by no means necessary. |
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| (637280) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 01:14:32 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 00:56:54 2008. Well ... point of good sense ... even if you DON'T put the third track in, you at least EXCAVATE for it, and pull down the temp work when you can afford it. Because this appears to be a TBM job, you have a round horizontal hole. So ONCE you dig, you don't have the alternatives you did before of "close arrangement" for the future. Should the SAS become as heavily used as any OTHER 4-track subway line in Manhattan, they're already out the option since they're only building two tracks in the first place. When you have a limited railroad, you NEED options such as that third track.I'm sadly surprised at the fact that since they were going to dig ANYWAY, why not go with a large enough bore size to do stacked pairs like they did with the 60th Street tunnel, use the upper or lower half, or one side and just leave bare concrete shell for what will eventually need to be added? But by going with the smaller bore size for two tracks, that option (if ever undertaken) will be a bigger mess and expense than digging the 6th Avenue express dash. :( Somebody in management needs to talk to someone who actually RUNS the railroad and see why that provision was there in the first place. Given that SAS was designed as a two-tracker, that location having three tracks was apparently VERY significant! Only question is what possible benefit is there in foreclosing what may well be needed the day the line opens. And to "re-bore" at a later time will be a complete shutdown for that line to do. :( Maybe they can linoleum the station walls to save money, but messing with the bore is a really bad idea if the original designers put it in there in the first place for such a SHORT line. |
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| (637282) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 01:39:39 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 00:58:14 2008. Ron? I was only a motorman, but MY bet is that the design was allowed to clear interlockings south of the station, perhaps allow a short turn for perhaps the (Q) while the (T) did the "shuttle action" north of there, all sorts of possibilities. Given the limited scope of this project (let's face it, it's no longer than the old Culver shuttle with about as many stops - certainly not a gigantic project like replacing the lower Myrt or 3rd Avenue Bronx El) as a simple two -track system with layup north and a few crossovers, something as significant as a three tracked stop IS a significant thing.Engineers don't put in superfluous things when budget is constrained. First question out of any engineer is "how much you got?" ... sorta like the ER when they ask, "do you have insurance?" In BOTH cases, these two different trade's questions determines where your bed is. :) Bottom line, given the simplicity of the CURRENT design, putting something that "questionable" in the original design is a RED FLAG from an engineer of "required, not optional." Beancounters of course never read the "technical specifications" as they just don't understand them. Been there, done that, became a consultant and now a "lecturer/team-builder." Heh. I won't question you if you take an MRI of a kidney transplant patient, see apparent blurs and possible masses presenting forward of the vertebrae, and tell you that it's costly and inefficient to order a CAT scan for a visual overlay on top of the MRI and it shouldn't be done. Well, it was done anyway, and each of those spots was malignant. I'm SURE you know what I'm talking about. I'm an engineer (I was trained in building small cities out of silicon rather than "structural") myself ... AND I ran trains for a year for a paycheck. Noboyd ever notices the 167th spur on the D, the 72nd turnouts on the IND or myriad other "mysteries" of the system. But if I had a nickel for every time a train I was running went INTO those weird places out of necessity, I'd have a LOT of nickels! :) Bottom line, "gold plating" is done at the CONSULTING level, not where the metal meets the road. I suggest we pursue (along with the Meatball) finding out WHY it's there ... I'm CERTAIN that before it ended up in the blueprints, a "detailed specification" document as well as "fiscal justification" was written up by someone before it ever got "inked in." I think we ALL need to see what the purpose was. I'm CERTAIN that it's more important than any of those cutouts. Hell. If they NEED to save money, repeat the stupidity of the <7> line in failing to build even a SHELL for 10th Avenue. But at least THAT railroad is an open cut ... |
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| (637284) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sat Jun 21 01:52:08 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by G1Ravage on Fri Jun 20 23:24:42 2008. IMHO they should've built a 4 track line which would connect to the Concourse Line south of 161St St. The B or D could then run express down 2nd Ave to Lex/63rd and then Q and T would run local. Of course, this is just a pipe dream of mine. |
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| (637285) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 01:55:28 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 01:39:39 2008. "I was only a motorman, but MY bet is that the design was allowed to clear interlockings south of the station, perhaps allow a short turn for perhaps the (Q) while the (T) did the "shuttle action" north of there, all sorts of possibilities. Given the limited scope of this project (let's face it, it's no longer than the old Culver shuttle with about as many stops - certainly not a gigantic project like replacing the lower Myrt or 3rd Avenue Bronx El) as a simple two -track system with layup north and a few crossovers, something as significant as a three tracked stop IS a significant thing."No, it's not. The shuttle services you're talking about are cute and can be useful, but are by no stretch necessary and are definitely superfluous with a limited budget. There are other Metro systems in the US that don't use three track stations and the sky didn't fall down on them. "Engineers don't put in superfluous things when budget is constrained." Even if always true (it isn't) this budget was NOT quite as constrained when DMJM+Harris designed the station. It is now more constrained, and three tracks at 72nd St is a "C" on the A-B-C order ranking. "First question out of any engineer is "how much you got?" Wrong! Depends on the engineer. Plenty of jobs have been overbuilt, or lost in competition, because the engineer insisted on gold-plating. Not every engineer does this, of course. But even in the current generation of SAS design, there was room to cut. "Bean counters of course never read the "technical specifications" as they just don't understand them" Actually, it turns out that the best engineering teams have the bean counters and engineers and customer working side by side, together. "I won't question you if you take an MRI of a kidney transplant patient, see apparent blurs and possible masses presenting forward of the vertebrae, and tell you that it's costly and inefficient to order a CAT scan for a visual overlay on top of the MRI and it shouldn't be done. Well, it was done anyway, and each of those spots was malignant. " Please don't spout nonsense at me. Doctors are just as capable of wasting money as anyone else with little or no benefit to the patient. Like engineers, not all doctors waste money, but some do, and they do it for stupid reasons. When doctors and system analysts work together, you actually get better medicine. "Bottom line, "gold plating" is done at the CONSULTING level, not where the metal meets the road." Wrong again. There are plenty of half-finished buildings (and all kinds of other projects, including airplanes and IT projects) in the US that suffered that precise malady. |
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| (637288) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 01:56:45 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sat Jun 21 01:52:08 2008. A good dream. Wish we could. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 02:09:37 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 01:55:28 2008. Heh. Well ... if you've ever dealt with engineers before (and completely bypassing my "Native American" training that "walking away IS a vote") then you might also be aware of what happens when they are summarily dismissed ... it's called, "OK Genius." When they come to court after the collapse, they have ALL the necessary documentation. Can we say, "cold pour," boys and girls? :)Beancounters and engineers in the same room do NOT make for a "team" ... intellectually it's all a Bronx handshake of data. Beancounters are looking to cut costs ... engineers in practice SINCE "efficiency experts" and "cost/benefit ratios" already HAVE that stuff in their CAD/CAM packages ... you're dissing MODERN engineers by even going there. COST, REASONABLE "overbuild" within accepted underwriting "safety margins" and all have been part of the practice now since the 1960's. Go ask that testing lab about Junkee Stadium. Whoops. :( No personal disrespect intended here, BUT ... you're weraing the wrong hat on this one, as is they Empty-yay ... and whilst my observations have not pleased republicans, I tend to be right more often than not. Oh and by the way, that CAT scan I mentioned? Was ordered by a Nurse Practitioner. Oncologist had their head up their ass. Patient died though. :( |
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| (637291) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sat Jun 21 02:18:19 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 01:56:45 2008. Here's my big dream: Run the B from Bedford Park Blvd to Brighton Beach using the Concourse line from Bedford park Blvd to 161st/Yankee Stadium. Run a two track line connecting to the local tracks of the Concourse line to a two track line south of 161/Yankee stadium with stops at 145 St. (possibly) and 135 St. At 125 St. the B would go Express and stop at 125 St. 106 St. 86 St. 55 St. 42 St. 14 St. and Grand St. With the 2nd Ave. express tracks merging into the Chrystie St. Local Tracks just north of this station. From Grand St. the B would run as it does today. So, the B would local in the Bronx, express down 2nd Ave, and express in Brooklyn (and be that aqua colored). The Q and T would run on the Local Tracks. with the T running all the way to Hanover Square. In the end, this plan will never be implemented but it seems to me it would be much more useful (and much more of a relief to the Lexington Ave. line) than the current plan. |
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| (637292) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:19:31 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sat Jun 21 02:18:19 2008. Have you drawn your map? |
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| (637293) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sat Jun 21 02:22:12 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:19:31 2008. When I learn how to do computerized animations, I will draw it. Also, I'd extend the service on the B to 7 day service and run it to midnight. |
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| (637295) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:27:29 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 02:09:37 2008. "Well ... if you've ever dealt with engineers before (and completely bypassing my "Native American" training that "walking away IS a vote") then you might also be aware of what happens when they are summarily dismissed ... it's called, "OK Genius." When they come to court after the collapse, they have ALL the necessary documentation. Can we say, "cold pour," boys and girls? :)"Sometimes yes, and sometimes not. Again, it depends. I've dealt with both kinds, so I don't assume the engineer is always the good guy or bad guy. "Beancounters and engineers in the same room do NOT make for a "team" ... intellectually it's all a Bronx handshake of data. Beancounters are looking to cut costs ... engineers in practice SINCE "efficiency experts" and "cost/benefit ratios" already HAVE that stuff in their CAD/CAM packages " No, they don't. CAD/CAM is very helpful but it doesn't replace a good cost accountant. Sometime when you're not in an ornery mood and feel like learning something, look up the Harvard Business Review story on the Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary and see what the cost accountants did for the doctors and patients there. There was a hell of a lot of teamwork going on there. Oh, and read up on Alan Mullaly and the 777 project, since you appear unfamiliar with what CAD/CAM does ad does NOT do. "Go ask that testing lab about Junkee Stadium" You'll find crooks everywhere. Don't "diss" engineers by painting them with that brush. "I tend to be right more often than not" You screwed this one up. Better get some more batting practice. |
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| (637296) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:27:50 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sat Jun 21 02:22:12 2008. Very good. |
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| (637297) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:30:24 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 01:14:32 2008. "When you have a limited railroad, you NEED options such as that third track."No, you don't. Nice to have, but you build what you can. "...since they were going to dig ANYWAY, why not go with a large enough bore size to do stacked pairs like they did with the 60th Street tunnel, use the upper or lower half, or one side and just leave bare concrete shell for what will eventually need to be added?" You want it? Find the money. I hear it's getting dumped in a landfill in Iraq, but that's just a rumor... |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sat Jun 21 02:36:51 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:27:50 2008. And, yes, I understand my plan would probably easily cost 2 to 3 times as much as the current plan and that it'll never happen. Not to mention the engineering difficulty of the tracks between the Chrystie St. Line and the Williamsburg Bridge. That's why it's a dream (and I wish it was completed in the 1930s-40s with the rest of the IND). |
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| (637301) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 02:43:32 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:27:29 2008. Heh. Well, at this point I s'pose I'm supposed to sit here and self-flagellate for not taking BW's SAGE advice in "don't answer the PHONE, man ... because I think it's bugged, man" ... heh.As I've indicated, I don't DO "big dig" and neither do YOU ... but I can only offer that I've been involved in some railroad engineering (micro as opposed to macro) and "de minimus" always applies since the funding NEVER matches "podium speak" ... Ornery? Nope ... merely being passionate about what *I* (who has experience with jacked up railroad, but NOT to the limit of those who've done it longer than I) think is important. Unca Ron ... geez. If YOU can "gas off" then so can I in saying "false" ... and no draedel! :) MY opinion is that before such is cut from the project, those who are makking the decisions as to removing that availability simply need to SREIOUSLY think about it before committing to an "irreversable outcome" ... that's all I been saying. I'm NOT Jewish ... I don't get off on arguing about bupkiss. Simply raising a point of the old IBM logo ... "THINK" ... One of the reasons why I *delighted* in being relieved of electronics design engineering because it had become SO irritating, and being blamed for "cost accountant substitution of critical components with GARNAGE" is that I got to see "EXECUTONE" ***DIE*** as a result of them, and become a Chinese company. You see saints in bean-counters, I see unemployment. But I actually managed to BEAT the game! MY boys are in Ukraine, Romania, India and China ... and we all get along. AMERICAN employment? *ZERO!* ... as I said before, "OK, Genius." :( Now WALKING away ... I've had my microphone time, I'm outta here on this one ... y'all discuss! :) |
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| (637304) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:52:57 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 02:43:32 2008. "Heh. Well, at this point I s'pose I'm supposed to sit here and self-flagellate for not taking BW's SAGE advice in "don't answer the PHONE, man ... because I think it's bugged, man" ... heh."Only if you enjoy self-flagellation. Birch works well - they use it in Finland in the sauna to improve circulation. Otherwise, leave Brian alone. He can'rt help himself, but you can. "As I've indicated, I don't DO "big dig" and neither do YOU" But I understand cost accounting and you do NOT. That puts you at a disadvantage. Do yourself a favor: Get a good cost accounting book and start reading. Horngren, Foster, Datar is a pretty good one. "MY opinion is that before such is cut from the project, those who are makking the decisions as to removing that availability simply need to SREIOUSLY think about it before committing to an "irreversable outcome" My guess is they needed to take a serious chunk out of the budget so they could award the 72nd St contract at all. Yes, they justt increased the cost of adding more tracks tremendously, astronomically. The alternative is having the project founder right now. Get over it. Leave the whining about three tracks to the foamers and get back to reality. "You see saints in bean-counters, I see unemployment" I'm sorry you never learned to work with them. Maybe they looked at you with the same jaundiced eye. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 02:56:07 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:30:24 2008. Heh. Me? I don't GIVE a qwap ... my OWN experience with the NYCT is that if I need to be there, I'll get there a WHOLE lot faster just hoofing it. No beese, no trains. Walk a long block or more, and I'm there. :)All I offered though is that if you're GOING to sink a TBM to do the job, you've now precluded all other benefits in the FITURE. Choose wisely. Doubling the circumference don't cost ANYWHERE what it's going to cost to do another one WAY deeper and then try to hook it up. TBM's have an interesting problem compared to open cut ... "sublimation." IF you want to add to existing. Assuming a 6th Avenue or similar arrangement. I really wish you could take the trouble to be a bit less condescnding though ... this is ME talking ... you REALLY don't want me to run out of cheeks to turn ... really. I grew up in da Bronix, dewd. Heh. |
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| (637306) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:00:55 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 02:56:07 2008. "you REALLY don't want me to run out of cheeks to turn ... really. I grew up in da Bronix, dewd. Heh."I grew up in the Bronx too. The joke's on you, pardner. Read up on cost accounting. |
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| (637307) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:02:02 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:52:57 2008. As long as we're on "mental disorders" here ... I'm sorry once again that you don't understand where I'm coming from. I grew up with the former "politically correct" world of "HIRE the handicapped, they're fun to watch." I grew up in the Bronx as I indeicated previously. RIVERDALE to be specific in my early childhood. Lessons of the Bronx (even in Riverdale) was that if you had a malfunction and didn't CEASE, you got your ASS handed to you. With SUFFICIENT beatings, even the autistic would cross the street and STFU when you came along. Maybe there's a valid point to kicking their asses and MAKING them behave. So long as you're not an "institutional responsibility" ... even RETARDS can be reformed if Bill Cosby's "the BEATINGS shall now commence!" were appied. Worked THEN! :)ANyhoo, SAID my piece ... I was already done. Whatever therapy is now in order, sorry ... too WELL to attend ... you guys have fun, drive safely, I'll be here all week, moo. (grin) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 03:02:19 2008, in response to Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by mkeit on Fri Jun 20 22:46:38 2008. In their hearts, they know 72nd will be the terminal for a very long time. That's why they're doing this. Like so many current terminals that originally were supposed be just regular stops, TA is planning ahead, knowing the project could very well end there.By doing this, they don't have another terminal like Flatbush Ave. on their hands. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:04:53 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:00:55 2008. I'm an engineer ... already GOT lowest cost, that's why a new office in Romania is just opening up and I'm training them ... have any idea of what MEDICAL consultants cost, and the pure LEVEL of science there is in Romania? I'd be polishing my resume, yo. :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:08:26 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:02:02 2008. Have a good night! From your fellow Bronxite... |
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| (637312) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:09:31 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:04:53 2008. Try the Ukraine. My business partner has a whole group of docs and PhDs in Kiev to help him out. |
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| (637314) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:11:11 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 03:02:19 2008. "In their hearts, they know 72nd will be the terminal for a very long time. That's why they're doing this. Like so many current terminals that originally were supposed be just regular stops, TA is planning ahead, knowing the project could very well end there."Foaming again? Do you ever think without smoking something first? |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:13:27 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 03:02:19 2008. FWIW, I remember when 145/Lenox WAS the terminal prior to the dig to 148 and "reconfiguration" of that yahd. Worked a LOT smoother, but the provisions made it a mess that continues to this day. THAT is why I said what I said about 72 on the (T) ... you guys in RTO really need to help explain this to the rubes ... but the REAL onus lies on the original design engineers to explain it again. ANYONE who's ever had a railroad die in their windshield knows why ... but obviously, the wiglets, deputy junior wiglets, adminiswigs and docudroids have forgotten. :( |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:19:25 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:09:31 2008. We're in Odessa and Lviv as well. Sorry to say, don't waste your time on those still in Kiev ... STILL overexposed to plutonium, polonium and other lanthanides. They won't be with you for long. :(But BOTTOM line (as you've apparently noticed) ... for UH-mericans, better polish up that accent on "latte or espresso" ... IF you're lucky. "BOCES" (or "technical school" was treated by your parents as a curse ... there are NO "technical upstarts" here ... so all those "high[paying tech jobs" have been sold off to the "former republics" where SCIENCE and ENGINEERING (which is the future, just NOT for America) exist. And words CANNOT describe how absolutely *IMPRESSED* I am by my "Russkies" ande "Asians." BAD for America, but another tax cut for the rich will solve your rent. :-\ |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:19:59 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:13:27 2008. No, they haven'tt forgotten. The public hasn't given them the money to do what you want. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:21:09 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:08:26 2008. MOO, my brother! Oh wait, I shouldn't be responding to you ... nevermind! :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:24:52 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:19:59 2008. Last word on this ... everyone needs to be educated on the purpose. Like I said, having DONE railroad for one piddly year myself, *I* get it. If they fail to make the argument, then SAS shall forever be as useful as the Frankin shuttle in the greater scheme of things. :( |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:29:32 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:24:52 2008. Bottom line: TBM is a FINAL act. :( |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:30:23 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:24:52 2008. You obviously are short on sleep...you're becoming incoherent. :0) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 03:33:57 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:30:23 2008. TRUTH ... I fix ... :)But really ... I leave it there, and walk away. (including second response) ... |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sat Jun 21 08:58:46 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 02:30:24 2008. You want it? Find the money. I hear it's getting dumped in a landfill in Iraq, but that's just a rumor...It must be a BIG LandFill!!!! |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Jun 21 09:00:22 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 03:02:19 2008. 72nd will likely never be the terminal. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jun 21 10:04:53 2008, in response to Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by mkeit on Fri Jun 20 22:46:38 2008. Just another sign that the line below 63rd St. will never be built. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 11:18:00 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by R30A on Sat Jun 21 09:00:22 2008. That's what they said about Flatbush and Main St. |
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