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| Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... (548013) | |
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| (548263) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat Jan 5 20:48:04 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 5 20:43:19 2008. Even in white the 7's R36s remained clean, while the IRT Main Line got the worst of it. |
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| (548264) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 5 20:50:36 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by R Pansepcc on Sat Jan 5 17:46:03 2008. It seems the people with the most interest in the graffiti are the people who don't have first hand knowledge of it. I lived that nightmare all through the 70's and 80's, and wouldn't want to go anywehere near back to that.Someone posted this photo some time ago (I apologize whoever's this is that I can't credit you, as I don't know who posted it), but this sums it up pretty well. This is what EVERYTHING looked like in the early 80's. And people have the nerve to complain today.... I lived this nightmare, as well as many here. There is ABSOLUTELY NO compromise on grafitti. 
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| (548265) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti "artists" |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 5 20:50:40 2008, in response to Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 14:27:48 2008. Do I sound psycho?A bit. You sound closer to extremely inane, though. Isn't that better than saying you sound absolutely stupid? |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (548267) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to . . . |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 5 20:52:12 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Fred G on Sat Jan 5 17:38:58 2008. IAWTP. Never mind the fact that there should have been no "then" to begin with . . . the fact that there was a "then" means that we ought to have learned from it. |
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| (548273) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:03:13 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 5 20:50:36 2008. You too miss the entire jist of my topic, but I'll explain in short sentancesMy plan involves no graffiti on trains... My plan involves only whats in the tunnels as of now... There was no zero tolerance in the 70s There was no NYC economy in the 70s There was no respect in the 70s People were retarded in the 70s cause they tolerated riding in those conditions... Bad economy + bad parenting = what you saw in that picture |
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| (548274) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Russ on Sat Jan 5 21:05:57 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:03:13 2008. There was no NYC economy in the 70sYes there was. |
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| (548275) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:06:54 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti "artists", posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 5 20:50:40 2008. Well how do you suggest we destroy the graffiti artists from what I've been seeing they're doing a great job of winning...There's a problem where's your solution? |
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| (548281) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 5 21:13:58 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 17:54:02 2008. Well the graffiti is going on now, how do you suggest we stop it entirely on its tracks?Hahahahaha! Going on now? You have NO idea what graffiti is. I laugh when someone today says "Ohhhh, there's a tag on the wall". It's nothing next to what was once there. Every inch of every train, and every single station. Even the tiled stations (although they were the first to be cleaned up). The subway is like disneyland compared to what it was in the early 80's when every inch of every station was covered with graffiti. Here's a photo I took in 1992, near the end. This station had looked like this since the 70's. This is what a TYPICAL station looked like:  And the trains looked even worse. This train wasn't even that bad by early 80's standards. Most were much worse: (This photo not mine) So you see, I laugh when people say "I saw a tag". They really have NO idea what it was like. There is NO compromise on graffiti. |
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| (548282) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 5 21:14:34 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:06:54 2008. Well how do you suggest we destroy the graffiti artistsLook up the word "destroy". There's a problem where's your solution? Just told you. If that's not palatable, then we go back to David Gunn's solution. Appeasement is not a solution. Now stop replying to everyone that disagrees with you in this already-dead thread. Please. |
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| (548290) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:27:32 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Russ on Sat Jan 5 21:05:57 2008. Well there was an economy though it was sliding right toward bankruptcy but thats a deep discussion that I am willin to have |
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| (548293) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:34:24 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 5 21:14:34 2008. you're giving a text book definition thats not a solution, and david gunn plan didn't stop graffiti entirely, your plan calls to destroy it, well how do you destroy it, you sound like bush wanting to destroy the terrorists... |
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| (548294) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by FarRock on Sat Jan 5 21:34:27 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 5 21:13:58 2008. I think I do remember graffiti covered stations out her in the Rockaways back in the early '90s. I wouldn't mind seeing a train covered in graffiti. Maybe because I'm young and missed that era. |
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| (548298) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Jan 5 21:42:20 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 18:23:18 2008. It's an interesting idea, but it can go either way. It can go the way you mentioned or the way where kids would want their art on their clothes and whatnot. Then the name of "Bad-G" will be everywhere!I'd love to have my work featured everywhere, and hey - it'd help the community anyway. I admire your out of the box thinking though! |
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| (548300) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 5 21:44:50 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Jan 5 21:42:20 2008. Would "the box" mean "the brains" in this case . . . ? |
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| (548301) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jan 5 21:46:12 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:34:24 2008. Your 'solution' is overkill, though, and seems to rather create more and larger problems than it solves. You don't get a tiger to keep the place free from mice and then all is tickety-boo thereafter.First off, your proposal relies a lot on a certain view of IP law, which on a first guesstimate I judge erroneous. (Hint: consider the fate of NY's 'Son-of-Sam' Law). Secondly, even assuming that view is correct, is the solution to an almost non-existent problem nowadays entail glorification of the very thing one's trying to stamp out? And thirdly, let's have MTA stick to running the trains decently before they go into the apparel industry, thank you very much. We already know how the ultra-low graffiti state was achieved; it didn't involve IP law or advertising in graffiti.... |
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| (548302) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Russ on Sat Jan 5 21:46:36 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:27:32 2008. Economies don't go into bankruptcy. The City's government was in danger of that, but that is completely separate. Also, the city and regional economy experienced far more quarters of growth than contraction. The city was in relative decline, but in absolute terms, it was growing. |
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| (548458) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 08:40:31 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 17:37:22 2008. Artists? I don't think so. it;'s not flawed at all. There is no compromise on graffiti. |
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| (548459) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 08:41:51 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 17:49:13 2008. So that makes it better to go "art" on public and private property. I am afraid THAT argument is flawed. The "cost" of artist supplies makes it okay? That's the most ridiculous excuse yet I have heard on this argument. |
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| (548462) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 08:45:13 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 17:50:27 2008. No one wants to see that crap as we ride through the tunnels either. Showcasing it just encourages more of it. |
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| (548464) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 08:49:23 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 21:34:24 2008. you're giving a text book definition thats not a solution, and david gunn plan didn't stop graffiti entirely,No, but it certaily got rid of 99% of it. Whatever graffitti you see is less than 1-5% of what was here in the 70's or 80's. That's pretty successful if you ask me. |
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| (548467) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 08:55:51 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 16:15:42 2008. Graffiti on the transit system reflected the era not the out of control state subway system.It also reflected a subway AND CITY out of control. It was a way for people to rebel, to show their discontent with the bad economy the horrible state of living they had to endure. Oh please. the MTA making profit off already existing graffiti will not create the explosion seen in the 70s, all this talk is based off of fear and little fact. Not at all. Once "existing" graffiti is showcased, many more people will want to get in on this showcasing and add their own "work" to it. |
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| (548468) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 08:56:26 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by R Pansepcc on Sat Jan 5 16:19:54 2008. That's exactly what his problem is unfortunately. |
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| (548469) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 08:57:58 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 5 19:16:57 2008. Yes, that is exactly it. People "read" about it and see pictures and think they understand what it was back then. |
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| (548478) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 09:37:54 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Russ on Sat Jan 5 21:46:36 2008. If that was indeed true then why did the city only experience growth during the 80s, during the 70s the outer boroughs struggled, don't relate growth in manhattan to growth citywide, if the city was in fact growing then the effects would've been felt city wide like the growth occuring now. If you were in fact right then why was the city cutting back transit service? WHy were they reducing trains? Why were trains breaking down frequently? Why was graffiti rampant? What you're saying has in fact no proof... look at the 1977 blackout compared to the 2003 black out...Looting and vandalism were widespread, hitting thirty-one neighborhoods, including every poor neighborhood in the city. Among the hardest hit were Crown Heights where seventy-five stores on a five-block stretch were looted, and Bushwick where arson was rampant with some 25 fires still burning the next morning. At one point two blocks of Broadway, which separates Bushwick from Bedford-Stuyvesant in Brooklyn, were on fire. Thirty-five blocks of Broadway were destroyed: 134 stores looted, 45 of them set ablaze. In all, 1,616 stores were damaged in looting and rioting. 1,037 fires were responded to, including 14 multiple-alarm fires. In the largest mass arrest in city history, 3,776 people were arrested. Many had to be stuffed into overcrowded cells, precinct basements and other makeshift holding pens. A Congressional study estimated that the cost of damages amounted to a little over US$300 million. In 2003 NONE OF THAT HAPPENED. So the time were in fact bad, look at the pictures of the outer boroughs where there were abandoned buildings, crime on nearly every street. Where was that growth... there was none. Come on, if there was growth there wouldn't be that famous line "Ford to City... Drop Dead" |
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| (548479) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 09:39:47 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 08:49:23 2008. 1-5% is 100% inaccurate.... perhaps 60% but nothing closer... |
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| (548483) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 09:44:14 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 09:39:47 2008. 60%? Bull crap. I am not talking about in the tunnels, it's not necessary to remove it from the darkness of the tunnels. If 100% of the visual subway was covered back then (which it was), and now most of it is now clean (or cleaned soon after applied), yes, only 1-5% of the visual subway has grafitti iff even. If you think that the Gunn program wasn't successful, you really need to go back and look at you books. Don't even begin to tell me that only "60%" of the visual subway was cleaned up. If you think that is true, you have even a less of a clue on the grafitti epidemic than I had originally thought. |
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| (548488) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 09:53:05 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 09:44:14 2008. If 100% of the visual subway was covered back then (which it was)....I object to this number.... In fact, there was graffiti on top of other graffiti, so the percentage was over 100%. |
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| (548491) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 09:56:18 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 09:39:47 2008. 1-5% is 100% inaccurate.... perhaps 60% but nothing closer...How old are you? If you were riding the subways in the early 80s, you would know that Chris is right. |
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| (548498) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 10:05:24 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 08:55:51 2008. It also reflected a subway AND CITY out of control."It was a way for people to rebel, to show their discontent with the bad economy the horrible state of living they had to endure." Oh please. I think, looking back, at least at the start of the graffiti phenomenon, it was misdiagnosed as merely adolescent venting at the putrid state of development and public works, especially in certain parts of NYC. So I feel that the authorities, to some extent - I can't say how much not knowing the whole history - acquiesced to what they saw as (very colorful) expression by inner-city youth. Of course, to the extent I'm right in this, that was a mistake. Graffiti came hand-in-glove with other phenomena like dark cars, pickpocketing, and violent crime. It gave off the impression of a lawless regime, which only encouraged further lawlessness. |
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| (548505) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 10:16:14 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 09:37:54 2008. If that was indeed true then why did the city only experience growth during the 80s, during the 70s the outer boroughs struggled, don't relate growth in manhattan to growth citywide, if the city was in fact growing then the effects would've been felt city wide like the growth occuring now.Its not "if it was true." It was true. You made a statement about the city that was false, and I called you out on it. Now you're changing your definition and you're still wrong. The only way that you can be right is if you drop the use of the word "bankruptcy" and only focus on the most economically disadvantaged parts of the city. If you were in fact right then why was the city cutting back transit service? WHy were they reducing trains? Why were trains breaking down frequently? The city was cutting back on transit service before the 70s. It has nothing to do with that decade. Why was graffiti rampant? That has nothing to do with the state of the local economy. This is now in James Q. Wilson's territory. You can read a quick bit on it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixing_Broken_Windows What you're saying has in fact no proof... What I am saying has nothing but proof. Go to the library and look up the quarterly growth stats for the City in the 70s. It is not opinion, it is fact. look at the 1977 blackout compared to the 2003 black out... That has nothing to do with economic growth. It has a lot more to do with the whole city living through 9-11 together than anything else. Looting and vandalism were widespread, hitting thirty-one neighborhoods, including every poor neighborhood in the city. Among the hardest hit were Crown Heights where seventy-five stores on a five-block stretch were looted, and Bushwick where arson was rampant with some 25 fires still burning the next morning. At one point two blocks of Broadway, which separates Bushwick from Bedford-Stuyvesant in Brooklyn, were on fire. Thirty-five blocks of Broadway were destroyed: 134 stores looted, 45 of them set ablaze. In all, 1,616 stores were damaged in looting and rioting. 1,037 fires were responded to, including 14 multiple-alarm fires. In the largest mass arrest in city history, 3,776 people were arrested. Many had to be stuffed into overcrowded cells, precinct basements and other makeshift holding pens. A Congressional study estimated that the cost of damages amounted to a little over US$300 million. Nothing to do with economic growth in the city. You're citing statistics that have absolutely nothing to with economics. I strongly suggest that take basic economics classes. In 2003 NONE OF THAT HAPPENED. So the time were in fact bad, look at the pictures of the outer boroughs where there were abandoned buildings, crime on nearly every street. Where was that growth... there was none. Come on, if there was growth there wouldn't be that famous line "Ford to City... Drop Dead" I grew up in Brooklyn during the 70s, and there were no such problems. Anyway, you're not providing proof. You're providing anecdotal evidence and avoiding the only real proof that there is because it will prove you wrong. |
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| (548514) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 10:59:28 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 10:16:14 2008. Basic economic states that growth must occur, growth occuring city wide was NOT occuring perhaps midtown and lower manhattan but this is a city of over 7 million, and most of them live in the outer boroughs which there was NO growth. Ive seen the pictures and Ive heard the stories of rampant abandoment throughout the outer boroughs, the high crime rate, the low quality of life, all those are signs of bad economic times.Hell look at the national economy now everyone and their mother knows the economy is bad yet the numbers say there is still growth. So your logic is also flawed, just because the numbers indicate growth it doesn't mean there was complete overall growth, numbers do not ever indicate the reality of the situation. If there was growth as you say there was... then why did the city have to ask the feds for a bailout? Last time I checked, if you had money and growth as you think you said then why would the city need an economic bailout? I think you're the one that needs the basic economic lesson... cause if you were right then the city wouldn't have been in the problems it faced in the 70s using your logic. Nor would the city have begged the feds for the bailout, nor would've there been the servere cutbacks in city services. Also before the koch era starting in 1977 there was rampant corruption and number altering, THATS A FACT, so the numbers you may be reflecting upon may be those altered numbers during the corruption period of the early and mid 70s. If you were right then NYC would've not been in the situation it would've been. |
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| (548524) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:23:55 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 10:59:28 2008. Hell look at the national economy now everyone and their mother knows the economy is bad yet the numbers say there is still growth. So your logic is also flawed, just because the numbers indicate growth it doesn't mean there was complete overall growth, numbers do not ever indicate the reality of the situation.Economic growth will hardly EVER reflect EVERYWHERE. The country often has great economic growth, but there is no way that the entire country will have that same luxury, there will always be places where the norm is not happening. The opposite is also true. The country could be in complete decline economically, yet there are pockets where it's just rubust. But if the average is in decline, we are in a declining economy, and if the average is on the rise, we are in a upswinging economy, so I reallky don't know what you are trying to say. I don't know what the numbers are for the 80's, but if Manhattan carried all of NYC, and the economy numbers show it was an increasing economy, regardless of if Brooklyn was in decline, NYC was in an increasing economy. A FACT, so the numbers you may be reflecting upon may be those altered numbers during the corruption period of the early and mid 70s. And I have no idea what the numbers were for NYC back then, I am not arguing that, I am just arguing your statement that if the numbers are on the upswing, even if it's just one or two areas pulling those numbers up, if the growth was higher than the year before, than that is an upswing in economy, regardless of if other areas were not feeling the upswing. |
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| (548526) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:26:55 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 10:16:14 2008. If all these numbers are correct, your entire post is absolutely correct. Chris seems to think that an "increase in economy" per year for let's say NY in the 70's means ALL areas were seeing that increase. You can have sections in decline, yet overall, the region is experiencing growth. |
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| (548532) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:30:44 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 17:50:27 2008. Why do people think I mean subway cars, not the miles upon miles of graffiti lining our tunnels?Who the hell CARES what's in the tunnels. Leave it in the dark tunnels where it belongs. Why do you want to showcase that? There is no need to remove the graffiti from all the tunnels, that would be a complete waste of money. I can't believe you are using the tunnels to make your statement, "Only 60% of the subway was cleaned up". That's just assinine. Leave the graffiti in the tunnels in the dark where it belongs. I don't understand why anyone would want to showcase crap that is in the tunnels, that was put there 30 years ago. |
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| (548533) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:31:59 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 09:53:05 2008. Hahah, I assume you meant that as a joke. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 6 11:33:04 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 10:05:24 2008. Grafitti was the most visable symbol of a city in chaos and decline. It must be fought at every turn, never to be allowed acceptance on any mainstream level. Our younger posters who don't remember the late 70's/early 80's must be told this repeatedly until they "get it". |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 6 11:34:53 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Jan 5 18:27:53 2008. The chances of the writers suing may not be great, but the chances of the MTA going after them successfully is even worse. IIRC, the Statute of Limitations for property torts in NYS (and most U.S. places) is three years. That removes all the "best" stuff from the mix. |
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| (548537) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Jan 6 11:35:44 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 6 11:33:04 2008. Yeah, to call it a 'sore subject' is an understatement.your pal, Fred |
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| (548538) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:37:21 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by Russ on Sun Jan 6 09:56:18 2008. For some sick reason, I figured out he is talking about graffiti that is in the dark tunnels. That's why I had to begin using the phrase "visual subway". And no, I have no idea how old he is, but anyone born before 1980-1985 (give or take) would not be making these false statements, so I have to assume he was born after 1980-1985.And I think I am being pretty conservative saying 95-99% of the grafitti of the 70's-early 80's has been removed. It's probably more than 99%. The few tags that show up on a platform or wherever it still does, and is usually removed within a week if not days, constitutes perhaps .01% of what was here in 1982. And for some sick reason I have to use the phrase "visual" subway to explain that, as for some reason Chris is dragging graffiti in the dark tunnels into this discussion to be showcased by this plan. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 6 11:37:48 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by shiznit1987 on Sat Jan 5 19:16:57 2008. Correct. I don't think they can comprehend the risks many took back then just to "railfan". I'm glad I was too young to know better, or I'd never have become a train buff. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:40:07 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 6 11:33:04 2008. Right, that is the problem, they just "don't get it", and they think they do. They read in books "Oh yes, it was a form of expression". Oh please, hogwash. The books are written by those types that have an excuse for everything, and the "poor" criminals (of any sort) are just a victim of society.Give me a break. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:41:03 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Fred G on Sun Jan 6 11:35:44 2008. Correct. They look at it like it was some sort of "novelty". Well it wasn't. It was PURE hell. Saying it was a "sore subject" is the understatement of the century. |
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| (548543) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:43:47 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 6 11:37:48 2008. That's just it. You can't even begin to describe what the subway was like in the late 70's and early 80's. Back then, I guess we were used to it, but really, you can't be used to it. I have to laugh when someone shows a photo of tag on a station or something, "Oh my GOD major graffiti applied!", or a leak somewhere pealing some paint. They have no idea what real graffiti was, or what real defferred maintenance was. You can't get that from books, photos, or even second hand info. No one that didn't live through that ordeal of hell can understand. |
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| (548544) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 11:44:00 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:23:55 2008. Tell that to all the homeowners and major companies that had job cutbacks and find out their reaction.While NYC may be having an economy time of its life the rest of the country is struggling, thats why I do not like overall economic data it always obscures the bigger picture but once again thats another discussion entirely. I just believe entirely that in the 70s that the city struggled, so much that the city needed a bailout event hough the #s show from what russ says a positive increase. common sense dictates that a positive growth wouldn't result in economic hardship, let alone financial bailouts. That time in the city history can be summed up in one word... Quagmire. |
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| (548547) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 6 11:45:52 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:41:03 2008. Remember how badly communities would fight over the clean cars? M riders got pissed that J riders got the red R30's first, #3 riders got pissed for the same reason, and everyone wanted to know what made Queens Blvd riders so damned special, since they had a 100% clean fleet before everyone else. One could see how you were thought of by how fast your local subway line got clean cars. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 6 11:47:36 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:31:59 2008. Definitely. :) |
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| (548551) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:48:45 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 6 11:45:52 2008. Hahaha! Yup! It's hard to imagine today, but that is the way it was. It went by stations too. I was an M rider in the early 90's yet, and (if I didn't know before, lol), I knew I was on a stepchild line even then still, as everyone had nice stations without graffiti, and we still had graffiti that was applied in the 1970's, with 20 years on top of it. Even the J was treated better than the M! I used to be envious of J riders in the late 80's because we had the worst trains in the system, and even the J got the red trains. And saying the J was well off was even a stretch, as the J was at the bottom of the list too! |
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| (548556) | |
Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 6 11:52:50 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:48:45 2008. Even as a little boy, I knew the J and M riders were considered unimportant by how badly it was treated by the MTA, even in comparison to the A, which was also pretty crappy back then. And I still want to know why Queens Blvd. riders were treated so well, in comparison to everyone else. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 11:54:02 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to cash in on the graffiti in the system..., posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 11:44:00 2008. New York's economy was probably growing in the 70's because it was going from an industrial economy to a more financial economy.Blue collar jobs were being lost, but white collar ones were on the rise. Again, you can have economic growth, even if there are declines in areas. I think you are mixing up economic growth with quality of living. |
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Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'' |
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Posted by Christopher Rivera on Sun Jan 6 11:56:16 2008, in response to Re: Time for the MTA to destroy the graffiti ''artists'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 6 09:44:14 2008. Wait, but Im saying using graffiti in the tunnels and you shot that down... now you're saying that graffiti doesn't count... pick a side and stick to it. Go to kingsbridge road today and look on the southbound platform on the tiles and look at the graffiti, go to 170 street and look there, go look on subway cars and you'll see there's still graffiti, look a week ago when the B trains sat on the express tracks outside of Brighton Beach, they were hit hard. Look at the euro bombing explosion in the city (I'm sure you read the article) If you think 1 to 5% you're still dreaming my friend.You talking total graffiti now you're saying visual graffiti... give me a break... I'm sorry but last time I checked if I can look outside my subway window looking at the tunnel graffiti and see it, then it's visual graffiti. Cause... I can see it! So can you, and anyone with 20/20 vision,. hell even those with glasses. The gunn program didn't eliminate the problem it just made it so that trains never ran with graffiti in service, but it never STOPPED the problem. Thats why trains still get bombed, why stations still are tagged, why tunnels are full of it still. I commend gunn on what he did cause it did make it more of a waste of time for graffiti vandals to do their work cause it cleaned off immediatly, but trains today still get bombed. I'm sure you've seen the graffiti videos out there where they walk into the yards, bomb a train and walk out... 60%.... |
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