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| Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing (513242) | |
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| (513625) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 7 18:29:03 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by VictorM on Wed Nov 7 17:52:38 2007. You're welcome. |
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| (513628) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by WillD on Wed Nov 7 18:29:58 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Wed Nov 7 17:09:14 2007. In the winter its simply brittle. You can still break it by throwing it at the ground, and if you can exert a few watts to break it then what can a 100 ton freight car do to it?I always thought it was wierd that wet frozen soil can be harder to drive a masonry nail into than asphalt in the same situation. Of course asphalt doesn't heave quite like soil when it warms up. |
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| (513638) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by WillD on Wed Nov 7 18:42:55 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Wed Nov 7 17:02:59 2007. No. As was said here there's only one wheel outside the flangeway at any time because the crossing is not perpendicular. The wheels are about 6 feet apart along the length of the car, and 5 feet 2 1/2 inch gauge, while the CSX tracks are 4 foot 8 inches wide. This means that at all points in the crossing when one wheel is out of the flangeway crossing the CSX track another three wheels in each truck are still sitting in the flangeways. The rigid axles and truck frames ensure that the truck remains tangent to the trackway. |
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| (513641) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Wed Nov 7 18:47:28 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by WillD on Wed Nov 7 18:42:55 2007. Oh shit! Yea, your right, Since it's not a 90 Degree crossing, one flange is on the track way at all times. Yea, he's right. I don't think whey would do something like this if it were a 90 Degree crossing. |
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| (513686) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Nov 7 20:40:53 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by WillD on Wed Nov 7 18:29:58 2007. I believe there's concrete under the asphalt. That's usual practice. |
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| (513687) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 7 20:50:06 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by chuchubob on Wed Nov 7 07:45:00 2007. Yep ... that was exactly my thought as well since it's a given. Only a question of how long it will take. :( |
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| (513711) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Nov 7 22:25:56 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Nov 7 15:51:22 2007. Not SEPTA. |
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| (514133) | |
another point of view: Re: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by chuchubob on Thu Nov 8 20:04:13 2007, in response to PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by chuchubob on Tue Nov 6 21:55:44 2007. This from a highly respected transit professional:CSX finally has joined the last century. They're getting there. This crossing should always have been an "OWLS" crossing. Current RR industry term meaning One Way Low Speed - (a new discovery for the RR industry) Always in Europe this is how such crossings are built - with the main-line tracks continuous and the streetcars running on their flanges - which is a standard practice on special work in Europe. and has been since almost the beginning. Ed Springer says that when the B&O built to Philadelphia, the PRT signed an agreement with the RR to split the cost. Don't know why they would have done that, as the streetcar had been there 20-30 years or so by then. If true, then the dumb designs put there for a century or so that never lasted over 10 years would have been designs agreeable to PRT, PTC, and then INEPTA. Dumb, but then there has never been anything particularly imaginative about PRT or PTC track-wise before the 30s, and that disappeared when NCL took over. Let alone INEPTA or the RR. |
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| (514264) | |
Re: another point of view: Re: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 8 23:44:42 2007, in response to another point of view: Re: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by chuchubob on Thu Nov 8 20:04:13 2007. a highly respected transit professionalWho, exactly? |
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| (514273) | |
Re: another point of view: Re: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by IowaHoghead on Thu Nov 8 23:50:57 2007, in response to Re: another point of view: Re: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 8 23:44:42 2007. Probably JAAP the motorman. |
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| (514278) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 9 00:13:43 2007, in response to PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by chuchubob on Tue Nov 6 21:55:44 2007. Looks like CSX has been bitten with this bug. Ostensibly for "low-density freight lines", or so I'm told. Walkerton, IN. (Courtesy of a bud of mine.)  |
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| (514322) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Nov 9 06:51:45 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 9 00:13:43 2007. Looks like the freight line track goes straight through here, too.Thanks for the pics. |
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| (514330) | |
Re: another point of view: Re: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 07:33:43 2007, in response to Re: another point of view: Re: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 8 23:44:42 2007. I didn't ask his permission to identify him. He is very highly respected in transit circles. Trust me. |
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| (514380) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Nov 9 10:30:21 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 9 00:13:43 2007. Low density indeed! Has any thing gone over it yet? The ramped portion hardly shows traffic.Nice rust, no sign of flange grooving. avid |
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| (516101) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by George Foelschow on Mon Nov 12 15:53:58 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by Fred G on Wed Nov 7 03:32:58 2007. I've seen something similar on CTA on the Loop 'L'. On a crossover not used for normal moves, the rail through the frog is continuous and the diverging rail through the frog is raised. This makes for a smoother ride for regular trains. |
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| (516133) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Nov 12 17:38:52 2007, in response to PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by chuchubob on Tue Nov 6 21:55:44 2007. Looking at the score mark in Bob's 2nd photo the scratch is a key issue.I wonder how many thousandths of rail are worn at this point. Also, can they keep close tabs on the depth of the "score" on a weekly basis? So many have posted here that this is not a first time design, and apparently has worked in other areas. All we call do at this point is let it be used and keep watching. I am not a mechanical engineer,but have worked with them. They must have run numbers on this. Maybe the ramp should have been a tiny bit higher to eliminate the "score"? We don't want that "chisel" effect. I could be totally off base here, but I really hope this thing works. Chuck Greene |
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| (516217) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by JohnL on Mon Nov 12 19:22:18 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Nov 12 17:38:52 2007. Making the ramp higher would probably exacerbate the problem when the wheel rim drops down onto the CSX rail. Hammer+Chisel!I would hope that the powers that be inspect the crossing regularly and replace worn/cracked parts when necessary. |
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| (516355) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Nov 12 22:28:45 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Nov 12 17:38:52 2007. I thought of something. The photos and examples of other crossings that are like this are with rarely used lines.A streetcar isn't a rarely used track. That's going across lots of times of day. I wonder if that's the major difference if this fails. |
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| (516554) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Tue Nov 13 14:11:38 2007, in response to PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by chuchubob on Tue Nov 6 21:55:44 2007.  for one of these subthreads |
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| (516568) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 14:45:21 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by orange blossom special on Tue Nov 13 14:11:38 2007. Got a closeup of the diamond itself? Is it of the same type as depicted in the OP? |
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| (516569) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 14:48:14 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by WillD on Wed Nov 7 18:29:58 2007. I always thought it was wierd (sic) that wet frozen soil can be harder to drive a masonry nail into than asphalt in the same situationSoil holds more water. So you got that "permafrost" effect. |
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| (516570) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Tue Nov 13 14:49:03 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 14:45:21 2007. It's a normal diamond. The streetcar snakes in an S to go at it exactly at 90degrees. The streetcar is already doing less than 10mph, and it's a heck of a lot more frequent than the 4 trains per day possibly.I wish I had a video. Same as my favorite double-diamond too, but as both freight. Don't think I've ever seen any others. With the exception of the one on the R3 that was torn up thanks to the long term vision of the R8. |
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| (516573) | |
Re: another point of view: Re: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 14:59:16 2007, in response to Re: another point of view: Re: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by chuchubob on Fri Nov 9 07:33:43 2007. VW, I'll trust you. Just that his rants against SEPTA were very Vranich-reminiscent. |
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| (516577) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Tue Nov 13 15:19:27 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 13 14:45:21 2007. Actually, I should clarify some more. West it goes through Ybor City, with lots of crossings and bars and such. East the heavy rail line goes through downtown Tampa, streetrunning(sorry STILL no pics of that). So in either direction, those trains aren't going to be going all that fast. |
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| (516580) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Nov 13 15:22:07 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by orange blossom special on Tue Nov 13 14:49:03 2007. The train was noisy crossing that intersection. Is that normal noise? |
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| (516638) | |
Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Nov 13 17:04:38 2007, in response to Re: PHOTOS: B&O/SEPTA Route 11 Darby crossing, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Nov 13 15:22:07 2007. Do you mean the horn or the clanking?If the clanking then yes. If you mean the horn I think that's an amtrak thing. And it's amazing that they still get cars pulling in front with all that honking. I don't think video does it justice |
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