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| (384984) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 12:13:41 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 11:59:31 2007. I am not denying he was an arrogant bastard. But at the same time, you HAVE to take the good with the bad things he has done. All I have said this whol thread is that while he did some HORRIBLE things, he also did a lot of good things too that we enjoy to this day. It's not just left and right or just black and white. There is middle ground. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Sun Feb 11 12:36:56 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 12:09:59 2007. The 90's and newer may not be the "Golden Gate Bridge" era, but it's certainly not the 60's and 70's crap either.Oh, I agree, but there's a general trend of having forgotten architecture is an art - compare, for instance, these two instances of the use of basic red terracotta:  167, Tower Bridge Road, London SE1 - not bad as modern architecture goes.  Methodist Central Hall, Corporation Street, Birmingham B4 - and if you think this is ornate, you should see the building across the street |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 12:44:34 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by PATHman on Fri Feb 9 14:53:21 2007. I hate Sheldon Silver too (and I support Democrats). Silver is a disgrace to the Democrat Party. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Sun Feb 11 12:46:17 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 12:10:59 2007. Yup, it's basically architecture in general that was bad in the 60's to 80's. Even single family homes built in that era are built crappily.I'd say the gerry-building of family homes set in circa 1918, and we're nowhere near back to the standards of before that Serb shot that Austrian. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 12:54:28 2007, in response to A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 9 14:16:58 2007. Thanks to that fucktard Robert Moses, thousands of communities, including my community ,which is East Flatbush, have no access to rail transit. IT IS HARD TO GET A SEAT ON THE B46, EVEN IF I GET ON AT 6:20AM IN THE MORNING! I HOPE THAT RAIL TRANSIT BETRAYING TROLL BURNS IN HELL! |
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| (385012) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 12:59:29 2007, in response to A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 9 14:16:58 2007. THANKS TO THAT FUCKTARD ROBERT MOSES, MY COMMUNITY, WHICH IS EAST FALTBUSH, AND MANY OTHER COMMUNTIES IN THIS CITY, HAVE NO ACCESS TO ANY SUBWAY LINE. IT IS HARD TO GET A SEAT ON THE B46 LIMITED ON MY WAY TO SCHOOL IN THE MORNING, EVEN IF I GET ON AT 6:22AM IN THE MORNING! I HOPE THAT RAIL TRANSIT BETRAYING TROLL BURNS IN HELL! |
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| (385015) | |
Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 11 13:00:35 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 12:54:28 2007. Buy a car. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 13:05:22 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 11 13:00:35 2007. I am a High School student. |
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I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 13:09:11 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 11 13:00:35 2007. I cant buy a car because I am only 14 years old. |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 11 13:13:48 2007, in response to I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 13:09:11 2007. Fourteen years old and you already use language like that?? You'll get far in this world. |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Sun Feb 11 13:15:16 2007, in response to I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 13:09:11 2007. I cant buy a car because I am only 14 years old.Then get your parents/chauffeur to drive you around. Isn't Moses-world great? |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 13:18:01 2007, in response to A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 9 14:16:58 2007. THANKS TO THAT IDIOT ROBERT MOSES, MY COMMUNITY, WHICH IS EAST FLATBUSH, AND MANY OTHER COMMUNTIES IN THIS CITY, HAVE NO ACCESS TO ANY SUBWAY LINE. IT IS HARD TO GET A SEAT ON THE B46 LIMITED ON MY WAY TO SCHOOL IN THE MORNING, EVEN IF I GET ON AT 6:22AM IN THE MORNING! I HOPE THAT RAIL TRANSIT BETRAYING TROLL BURNS IN HELL! |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Feb 11 13:26:12 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Rail Blue on Sun Feb 11 12:36:56 2007. The building in the first photo is very nice-looking. I wouldn't say that it's an example of bad modern architecture at all. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Feb 11 13:29:11 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 12:54:28 2007. You actually think that Robert Moses is directly related to crowded B46 buses?That's like saying a chef is anti-semitic for overcooking one's hamburger. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Feb 11 13:30:38 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 13:18:01 2007. I wonder if Robert Moses could prevent triple posts. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Sun Feb 11 13:39:12 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Feb 11 13:26:12 2007. The building in the first photo is very nice-looking. I wouldn't say that it's an example of bad modern architecture at all.It's nice, but terribly dull. Terracotta is cheap, light, a good insulator, and easily mouldable - to see it moulded into flat panels with no details at all on the entire building seems like they missed the point, despite the end result being quite pleasant. I of course don't expect magnificent Gothic Revival buildings to be built today, but some artistic vision would be nice. |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Sun Feb 11 13:39:22 2007, in response to Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 11 13:13:48 2007. "hell"? |
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Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Sun Feb 11 13:41:59 2007, in response to Re: Set Your VCR, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 11 01:00:21 2007. I think he was not too different from the city planners in most American cities. He built bridges and tried to build highways that connect them. Many locations were near the water's edge or near undeveloped "parks", and connecting already existent highways. Once the GW Bridge was built, the Cross-Bronx was inevitable. Building an underground tunnel to connect the Holland Tunnel with the Manhattan Bridge was pretty logical. Running the Gowanus Expressway where the Third Avenue (Brooklyn) El was and two blocks from a grimy waterfront was a smart and somewhat obvious idea. Even if some of his ideas were not good, he was no different from the city planners in Boston, Baltimore, Minneapolis, Omaha, etc. It's just that in New York everything is a MAJOR DEAL with heroes and villains, only because the population is bigger than everywhere else. |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sun Feb 11 13:48:40 2007, in response to Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Rail Blue on Sun Feb 11 13:15:16 2007. Then get your chauffeur to drive you around.Worked for Moses himself!! |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Feb 11 13:55:32 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Rail Blue on Sun Feb 11 13:39:12 2007. I don't think it's dull at all. It's definitely more visually interesting than the horrible office buildings on 6th Avenue in the fifties, but of course it's a matter of personal preference. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 13:56:01 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 12:54:28 2007. Oh please. |
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Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 13:58:32 2007, in response to Re: Set Your VCR, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Sun Feb 11 13:41:59 2007. I think he was not too different from the city planners in most American citiesYou hit the nail on the head perfectly! |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Feb 11 14:03:07 2007, in response to Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 11 13:13:48 2007. You must not get out much these days.....I here alot of vulgar language out of 12-year old coming home from school on the subways.....and they dont care who listen...right in front old women that could be their grandmothers.....this is 2007....post "Father Knows Best Era". |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Feb 11 14:04:29 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 11 13:00:35 2007. I see that's is the solution that RM would have wanted...buy a car screw transit! The man, RM, never even drove a car in his entire life......and that is a fact of RM....someone always drove him around. That way of thinking is why we are is this mess with Green House Effects etc....be a little bit more pro-transit here.....Mr. Jeff Rosen |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 11 14:26:52 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 13:56:01 2007. !ouy knaht |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 11 14:27:57 2007, in response to Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BMTLines on Sun Feb 11 13:48:40 2007. Indeed. Moses himself never drove a car. |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Sun Feb 11 14:29:06 2007, in response to Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 11 14:27:57 2007. .rac a evord reven flesmih sesoM .deednI |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 11 14:45:30 2007, in response to Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Sun Feb 11 14:29:06 2007. !tnellexE tsoM |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 11 15:11:34 2007, in response to I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 13:09:11 2007. Oh. 14 is a good age to be.10 is better, you can get away with more stuff (if you are old enough to know what stuff is) [I surely wasn't] At ten you can roll your big eyes, and everybody thinks you are cute, and they forget what it was you did. At 14 that gets more difficult. They begin to make you take responsibility for being stoopit. (More's the pity.) ROAR |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 11 15:15:14 2007, in response to Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Feb 11 14:03:07 2007. If Father really knew best, the kid would not have grown up like that!Actually, you can make a better point with out the vulgarity. Vulgarity make you seem so, well vulgar. You can do better than that. The other kids will not notice that you did not curse, but adults will. Eventually you *will* have to come across as a polished adult. ROAR |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 15:23:39 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 12:10:59 2007. I don't know if that was true all over the country, though certainly true in NY. I remember visiting Reston VA in 1972 and seeing very nice homes being built all in different architectural styles. In NY, everything built wsa out of the same cokie cuttter. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 15:31:34 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 12:13:41 2007. Can't argue with that. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 15:50:41 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Westinghouse XCB248S on Sun Feb 11 13:18:01 2007. I spent the first 25 years of my life in East Flatbush and was a frequent user of the B46 until 1977.First of all what makes you think you are entitled to a seat on a bus in the rush hour? Be glad you can even get on the bus. In the 1960s and 70s, sometimes you had to miss two or three buses until one even stopped for you to board. Then you could barely squeeze in and sometimes rode the entire trip on the front stairs. Second, you can't blame Moses if there is not enough service in your opinion. He's been dead for a number of years. But you can blame NYCT who cut rush hour service in the mid 1970s from 2 minute headways to 4 minute headways when the buses were as crowded as I described. The following Monday, the street was flooded with private cars offering lifts to the subway for the same as the bus fare. In a few days, the gypsy car industry saw what was going on and they replaced the private cars. About ten years later, the gypsy cabs were replaced by the "dollar vans" and a whole new industry was born. You also can't blame Moses for the lack of a Utica Avenue subway which was planned even before 1922 when the Eastern Parkway was built. It wasn't built before Moses gained enough power to steer funds away, and it wasn't built after he lost power. There is only a slight possibility that it would have been built if he never lived. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Feb 11 16:05:44 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Feb 11 13:29:11 2007. You don't just overcook a hamburger... |
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Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Sun Feb 11 16:23:10 2007, in response to Re: I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STDENT! Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BMTLines on Sun Feb 11 13:48:40 2007. Then get your chauffeur to drive you around.Worked for Moses himself!! Well, only Untermenschen can't afford one! |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Feb 11 16:24:16 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Feb 11 16:05:44 2007. Look at this! I told them medium rare, it's medium! |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by FarRock on Sun Feb 11 16:27:20 2007, in response to A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 9 14:16:58 2007. My history teacher said that he was a racist. He knew that blacks used public transportation so he focused on projects for people who had cars. He also said that's the reason why he built low bridges in Long Island that led to beaches so buses wouldn't fit. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 16:40:02 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by FarRock on Sun Feb 11 16:27:20 2007. That is a manufactured position. First off, when the parkway system begun being built in the 30's, buses were not all that popular yet. Not like they are now. Second off, you can take buses to Jones Beach. And the idea that only blacks use public transportion is ludicrous. Your history teacher has persecution complex. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 16:41:43 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 15:23:39 2007. Of course it's just a generalization. But it's a generalization that holds true. Obviously, not "everything" built in the 60's or 70's was "ugly", just like "everything" built before 1940 was "beautiful". |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 16:47:43 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 15:50:41 2007. First of all what makes you think you are entitled to a seat on a bus in the rush hour? Be glad you can even get on the bus. In the 1960s and 70s, sometimes you had to miss two or three buses until one even stopped for you to board. Then you could barely squeeze in and sometimes rode the entire trip on the front stairsAnd even if there was a train, you may still have to stand at rush hour. That's normal. And again, it's not necessarily RM's fault that the Utica subway wasn't built. Sure, he lobbied funding for roads and not subways, but no other cities were lobbying for subway funds either, they too were all building just roads. The problem is not that RM lobbied for roads and not subways, the problem is that there was no one lobbying for subway funds either. THAT is where the problem lies, and again, it was a attutude of the time, people weren't building subways by that time anymore, people wanted roads. And for the umpteenth time, it's not like if RM didn't get the federal funding for NY for the "Whitestone Bridge and Cross Island Parkway" (or fill in any of his projects), that that money would have instead be used for the "Utica Subway"....the money wouldn't have came to NY at all, and the federal funds would have wound up in some other city, and not only would we NOT have the Utica subway....but we wouldn't have the Whitestone and Cross Island EITHER. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Feb 11 17:45:16 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 16:47:43 2007. While there is a great debate about Robert Moses, one should also look at the era in which he thrived. During the 1940's, 50's and 60's there were very powerful real estate and construction interests who were his champions because they were able to make money through these kinds of public investments. As new roadways opened up new suburbs, and made other areas accessible - that meant new housing, new schools, new stores, and a whole set of industries that would provide what was needed. After WW2 - the GI Bill and FHA, and VA mortgages allowed people to afford real honest homes unlike those offered in central city areas. Overtime a new set of factories, and industries would move out of central city areas because they needed the space for expansion due to low cost land. These people of course are not interested in cities, city people or city problems. Of course class bias would come into play - those who could afford to move were seen as "better" than those who could not.Some of these beloved tenements of yesterday were simply not the best places to live, even if not expensive. If for only $89 dollars one could make a down-payment on a free-standing newly built home in a new suburb with trees, grass, new stores, and low traffic, but you would need a car - would you take it? YES - The economics and assistance of the times, the 1940's and 1950's through the GI-Bill, FHA, VA made such choices - a no brainer. Subways in the city were private companies that had been limited to the farebox for their funds. This meant that there was little money for expansion, new cars or services. Look at the history of the Low-V's, R-1, R-10, R-15, and similar older cars. Why were they in service for so long? The subways had little money to buy new, the expense of operating the subways were high. This is why the systems began to be consolidated in the 1940's-50's - the private owners went bankrupt. That is why mass transit is a public service today there's no profit in it. If given a choice would you choose to drive your car from your new home located in a suburb with trees and grass, no liitle noise or crowds -- or choose to continue to live in a crowded dirty tenement to take crowded noisy dirty elevated and subway trains to work? Robert Moses did not invent the American Dream of a home of one's own, a car, raising your family in a healthy environment, with people who look like you. Robert Moses did not invent racial segregation, racial housing covenants, and a set of prejudices that were not always below the surface. Slum clearance was not just about old tenements and poor housing - wholesale industries, factories, good housing and community were removed, displaced and uprooted. While many may love the Lincoln Center complex, the Hispanic residents who have to be moved out for its construction may have a different opinion. Robert Moses was a man of his times. There are times when "we" want a democratic means to getting "things" done (even if messy) but sometimes an autocratic ruler is simply able to get "things" done that the "public" (kinda wants) but can not agree upon. Look at how many here (and on similar forums) have their grand designs for subway lines, highway lines and other transit matters, etc. One difference is that Robert Moses had, sought and used the massive streams of funds to achieve his ends, and in the process a great deal of power. In order to make an omelete one has to crack an egg, meaning a lot set of decisions have to be made. Robert Moses was a man of his times. Michael Sherrell |
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Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 18:00:39 2007, in response to Re: Set Your VCR, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Sun Feb 11 13:41:59 2007. He was different in that he had more power than any planner anywhere, holding at one point eleven government jobs simultaneously."Running the Gowanus Expressway where the Third Avenue (Brooklyn) El was and two blocks from a grimy waterfront was a smart and somewhat obvious idea." No it wasn't. If you read the Power Broker you would learn that 3rd Avenue was a lively and vibrant neighborhood full of mom and pop shops an plenty of street life, as Jane Jacobs would put it. Moses totally destroyed 3rd Avenue. Today it is all industrial with no street life at all. You could say that there was no alternative, but there was. The neighborhood begged him to build it along Second Avenue instead of Third which would not have destroyed any of the stores and would have relocated far fewer people. But as usual, Moses wouldn't listen to reason because he didn't have to. It's not a question of building the Gowanus or not but where to built it. The same is true of the Cross Bronx. A slightly different alignment would have dislocated 3,000 fewer families and not make the route more circuitous, but Moses didn't want to dislocate a friend of his. He was very different. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 18:10:54 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 16:47:43 2007. "The problem is not that RM lobbied for roads and not subways, the problem is that there was no one lobbying for subway funds either."With all the power Moses held and given the fact that everyone was scared shit of him and what he could do to you, anyone lobbying for subway funds would have been no match for him. He would have had the guy crushed. All Moses had to do was start a few rumors to ruin the guy's reputation which is what he would have done as soon as he realized that they were in competition for the same funds. |
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Re: Set Your VCR |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 18:42:31 2007, in response to Re: Set Your VCR, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 18:00:39 2007. You could say that there was no alternative, but there was. The neighborhood begged him to build it along Second Avenue instead of Third which would not have destroyed any of the stores and would have relocated far fewer people. But as usual, Moses wouldn't listen to reason because he didn't have to.I believe 3rd Ave was chosen for the Gowanas Parkway because that had the BMT's abandoned 3rd Ave el structure on it that was available to use for the new elevated parkway, which was the original road. It wasn't until later that the Expressway plans widened it to what it is today, and by that time, that was already the ROW. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 18:45:18 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by Michael549 on Sun Feb 11 17:45:16 2007. Wow, there are some rational people posting in this thread! |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 18:45:29 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 16:40:02 2007. Sounds like the history teacher is quoting Robert Caro because that is exactly what he said. You don't believe that the overpasses on the parkways were purposely designed too low to accommodate buses in all the lanes? Besides he didn't allow commercial traffic on his parkways anyway so buses were precluded. Didn't the bus service that exists today today begin long after when the parkways were built?It may be ludicrous to believe that only blacks use public transportation, but Moses believed that they are far more likely to use buses than whites. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 18:55:47 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 18:45:29 2007. You don't believe that the overpasses on the parkways were purposely designed too low to accommodate buses in all the lanes?Correct. It's an unfortunate by-product of the way the parkways were built, but it's not the "reason". Besides he didn't allow commercial traffic on his parkways anyway so buses were precluded. That is correct. And it's nice to have roads that trucks can't drive on (not that trucks as we know it existed either back then). Didn't the bus service that exists today today begin long after when the parkways were built? Yes, that was excactly my point, and what the "hearsayers" forget to include....that buses really didn't have a foothold in the 1930's yet, when the parkways were being built. They weren't a concern or thought then yet. Again, people using modern thought and technology, and trying to frame it into the 1930's. And once trucks and buses became much more of a thought and much more prevelant....the expressways were built. Some of the parkways were even converted to expressways!! Once it was seen that you needed higher clearances for the then much more prevelant buses and trucks, expressways were built instead of parkways. It may be ludicrous to believe that only blacks use public transportation, but Moses believed that they are far more likely to use buses than whites That's a ridiculous assumption. Even in the 1930's-1950's...and probably especially in the the 1930's to 1950's. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 18:55:59 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 11 18:45:29 2007. You don't believe that the overpasses on the parkways were purposely designed too low to accommodate buses in all the lanes?Correct. It's an unfortunate by-product of the way the parkways were built, but it's not the "reason". Besides he didn't allow commercial traffic on his parkways anyway so buses were precluded. That is correct. And it's nice to have roads that trucks can't drive on (not that trucks as we know it existed either back then). Didn't the bus service that exists today today begin long after when the parkways were built? Yes, that was excactly my point, and what the "hearsayers" forget to include....that buses really didn't have a foothold in the 1930's yet, when the parkways were being built. They weren't a concern or thought then yet. Again, people using modern thought and technology, and trying to frame it into the 1930's. And once trucks and buses became much more of a thought and much more prevelant....the expressways were built. Some of the parkways were even converted to expressways!! Once it was seen that you needed higher clearances for the then much more prevelant buses and trucks, expressways were built instead of parkways. It may be ludicrous to believe that only blacks use public transportation, but Moses believed that they are far more likely to use buses than whites That's a ridiculous assumption. Even in the 1930's-1950's...and probably especially in the the 1930's to 1950's. |
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 11 19:07:39 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 18:55:59 2007. Chris, I am pretty sure commercial traffic was able to use the Meadowbrook between Merrick Road and Jones right from the beginning, at least official traffic with permission. They needed deliveries from the beginning for building materials and the beach needed supplies for their restaurants and pools. And of course oil deliveries for buildings in the winter. Anyway here is a picture taken from a bus calendar of a Jones Beach Bus in Freeport of the Jerusalem Avenue Bus Lines taken in 1951. (The other bus is a Bee Line Bus, I assume going to Jamaica as the Bee Line had a Freeport to Jamaica route.) I remember in the 60's before LI Bus the Jerusalem Av Bus Company supplied the buses to Jones Beach with brown colored fishbowls. (The Jerusalem Avenue Bus Company also operated the school bus company Harran Transportation which eventually became the Harran Transit with the Atlantic City buses.)
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Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 11 19:10:00 2007, in response to Re: A Transit Robert Moses Guy, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 11 18:55:47 2007. ["You don't believe that the overpasses on the parkways were purposely designed too low to accommodate buses in all the lanes?Correct. It's an unfortunate by-product of the way the parkways were built, but it's not the "reason"."]
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