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| (38175) | |
76th St Station |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:24:40 2005 Does it exist? |
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| (38177) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:25:53 2005, in response to 76th St Station, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:24:40 2005. Um, no. |
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| (38178) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:26:32 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:25:53 2005. How can you tell? |
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| (38179) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:26:50 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:26:32 2005. That is, if it does not exist |
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| (38184) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:31:55 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:26:50 2005. You can't prove a negative. The evidence that it doesn't exist is the complete lack of evidence it does exist. |
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| (38185) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 15:32:06 2005, in response to 76th St Station, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:24:40 2005. Read this link:http://www.nycrail.com/images/contributed/barraza/76stsigdia.jpg Something is back there. |
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| (38186) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:33:06 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 15:32:06 2005. Here we go again. |
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| (38187) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Jan 12 15:33:07 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:31:55 2005. The best we can say is that 76th Street station has never been observed.Mark |
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| (38188) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 15:35:54 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:33:06 2005. Richard Rabinowitz started it this time. |
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| (38189) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:38:05 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Jan 12 15:33:07 2005. That hints at existence. No evidence supports even a hint. The best we can say is that it doesn't exist. |
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| (38190) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 15:42:11 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:38:05 2005. It hints that something was in the process of being built.Perhaps the station was never built. But there seems to have been a IND Second System line that would have started after Euclid Avenue. One line going to Lefferts One line going to the Yard and One line that kept going. |
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| (38191) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:44:05 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 15:42:11 2005. There's no evidence that anything was built behind that concrete wall. None. Zip. Nada. |
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| (38195) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Teddmann on Wed Jan 12 15:48:30 2005, in response to 76th St Station, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:24:40 2005. Having JUST learned of this yesterday...I think the best we can say at this point is we don't know. I've seen some interesting readings, including the drawing in this post...I would love to find out! the story is fascinating! |
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| (38196) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 15:48:54 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:44:05 2005. Where was the roadway going when it got to that concrete wall? |
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| (38199) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:51:18 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Teddmann on Wed Jan 12 15:48:30 2005. Yes, it's easy to get caught up in the speculation, until the lack of evidence kills any realistic chance it exists. For some fun, check out this link: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/76st.html |
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| (38201) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Teddmann on Wed Jan 12 15:53:10 2005, in response to 76th St Station, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:24:40 2005. Actually, what I'd like to know is how many of you (us) have been there and seen the stuff I've read? I'm anxious to get up there and see it for myself!If a station was roughed out...would it have been constructed using the cut-n-cover method? If so...I heard there appears to be no evidence of that anymore. Then again...how long ago would that have been constructed? |
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| (38204) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 12 15:56:31 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Jan 12 15:33:07 2005. I think one or two people claim to have observed it. |
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| (38206) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jan 12 15:59:20 2005, in response to 76th St Station, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:24:40 2005. Of course - as long as we believe in it. |
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| (38213) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by JohnL on Wed Jan 12 16:11:44 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:51:18 2005. Oh no, not again! Look at the posting date before any comments! |
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| (38214) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:12:43 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Teddmann on Wed Jan 12 15:53:10 2005. In the late 1930's the IND Fulton Street line was extended along Fulton Street to Rockaway Avenue. At the time service did not go beyond there. But it was known that tunnel work continued past that point. But the Great Depression and later WW2 stopped further openings of the line. After WW2 subway construction was restarted and service was extended to B'way East-New York and later to Euclid Avenue. After Eucid Avenue there was a 2 track turn-off that went to Pitkin Yard. Then 2 tracks that went to Grant Avenue and eventually to Lefferts Blvd. But there are 4 tracks that continue.In 1929 there was the IND Second System subway plan that was announced that would have extended the IND subway routes then being built. One of the routes would have had the Fulton Street line extended to the area of 229 Street and Springfield Blvd. Some of the work was started in different locations along the IND. But was halted because of the depression and the war. When construction was allowed to continue, times and NYC fiances had changed. There was to have been a station at 76 Street. But it seems that at best the station was merely proposed. If there was something actually built we'll never know. But if someone ever looks out the railfan window of a R32 or R38 A train, they will see the route. |
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| (38215) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by vfrt on Wed Jan 12 16:13:56 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:44:05 2005. The New York City Dept. of Transportation is the agency that would know for sure if anything in under Pitkin Avenue near 76th Street. The DOT can be contacted at-NYC Department of Transportation 40 Worth Street New York, NY 10013 or via the web at- http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/maildot.html |
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| (38216) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:14:03 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by JohnL on Wed Jan 12 16:11:44 2005. Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:24:40 2005 |
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| (38221) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 12 16:19:39 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:12:43 2005. If there was something actually built we'll never know.How do you know that we'll never know? There's always a chance that more information could become known in the future. |
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| (38224) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 12 16:22:45 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by vfrt on Wed Jan 12 16:13:56 2005. Ok, I sent them the question. |
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| (38225) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:22:57 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 12 16:19:39 2005. Not in the near future. |
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| (38226) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:23:31 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 12 16:22:45 2005. So have I. |
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| (38233) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by mambomta on Wed Jan 12 16:27:43 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:14:03 2005. He's referring to the date on the provided link. |
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| (38236) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:32:50 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 15:48:54 2005. Where was the roadway going when it got to that concrete wall?A provision for a line that was never built. |
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| (38237) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:33:44 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 12 15:56:31 2005. I think one or two people claim to have observed it.Who are these people? |
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| (38238) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 12 16:35:23 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:33:44 2005. One is the guy they call the "Tunnel Rat." Someone else may know of others. |
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| (38239) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:35:41 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 12 15:33:06 2005. I think this is the first time this has come up on SubChat (That means it has been at least since August that this was discussed). That has to be some sort of record since the possiblility of this station was first proposed some years ago in subwayforumland . |
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| (38240) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:37:48 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:23:31 2005. First to the NYC DOT and then to MTA. |
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| (38241) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:39:08 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by mambomta on Wed Jan 12 16:27:43 2005. At that time TODAY Richard Rabinowitz started THIS thread. |
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| (38242) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:40:02 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:32:50 2005. Now we can say a line was going to be built? |
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| (38243) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:41:17 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:35:41 2005. Don't you mean Subtalk? |
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| (38244) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:41:24 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by JohnL on Wed Jan 12 16:11:44 2005. Although it briefly came up now and again every so often before the below post, here's the Mother of all Posts that made 76th St a SubTalk (Chat) classic eventually, along with all the other classics like the:Mystical Chix Alabama Ave Launch Pad R160's on the Dyre Express Tracks Tear Down the Astoria El PROFF Etc. It actually started during the "first" SubTalk hiatus, that's why it happened at Harry's board which was sort of the only alternative around at the time: http://www.nycrail.com/amb/board1/1443.html |
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| (38248) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:48:46 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:12:43 2005. In the late 1930's the IND Fulton Street line was extended along Fulton Street to Rockaway Avenue. At the time service did not go beyond there. But it was known that tunnel work continued past that point. But the Great Depression and later WW2 stopped further openings of the line. After WW2 subway construction was restarted and service was extended to B'way East-New York and later to Euclid Avenue. After Eucid Avenue there was a 2 track turn-off that went to Pitkin Yard.Actually, the subway was actually constructed all the way to Euclid Ave station (and beyond the station itself) before WWII hit. The reason it could not ope is because of the shortage of metal available during WWII, and they could not install the tracks and signalling, etc. The station shells of Euclid to East New York were all built and sat there waiting for the war to end. Once construction began again, and service was extended to Euclid, the money ran out for the second system, and the line was just connected to the Liberty El (when in fact it was supposed to go further before the war). That is where the loophole possibly exists for at least the shell of 76th St being built. Euclid, Shephard, Liberty, and Van Siclen stations were all built as shells before the US entered the war. There is a slight possibility (although doubtful) that 76th St was built at that point too. If it does indeed exist, (which I doubt), it would look like nothing more than the shell for some of the other IND provisions, like the Utica Ave or South 4th St station shells-nothing more than the conrete. |
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| (38249) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by vfrt on Wed Jan 12 16:49:43 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 12 16:35:23 2005. But notice how these guys never post here, it's always 2nd and 3rd hand information, the worst kind of information. But stranger things have turned up. |
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| (38250) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:50:40 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:22:57 2005. Not in the near future.Pessimist. |
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| (38251) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:53:31 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:40:02 2005. I don't think anyone disagrees that the line wasn't going to be built. That's not the controversy, most realize the line was planned to be built (Just like the Utica Ave Subway was proposed, and the South 4th St Subway was proposed to be built, as well as the countless other IND 2nd System plans).However, going to be built is quite different than actually built. |
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| (38252) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:56:01 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:41:17 2005. No, I am just saying it's been a while since this came up. (This is the first time in SubChat, which was open since August). The last time there was any meaningful thread on this was deep into the SubTalk archives. It used to come up about once every month of two ever since the proposed existence was first suggested some time ago. |
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| (38254) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:56:56 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:39:08 2005. You're just happy you didn't bring it up this time. :) |
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Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:57:22 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:48:46 2005. I agree with you on that. 76 Street station is likely just a shell. |
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| (38257) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 17:00:21 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by vfrt on Wed Jan 12 16:49:43 2005. Last winter I spoke to one of the "tunnel rats" who helped build the IND Quens Blvd line after 179 Street. The double level tail tracks were supposed to be the start of contining service. But there was no station proposed or built around 183 Street. |
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| (38258) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by vengence on Wed Jan 12 17:00:56 2005, in response to 76th St Station, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 12 15:24:40 2005. OH NO..Not this again.... |
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| (38259) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 17:02:03 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:50:40 2005. There was talk about a new sewer project being built around "City Line". But talk in here was all I heard. |
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| (38261) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by vfrt on Wed Jan 12 17:04:32 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 16:37:48 2005. MTA on-line contact at -http://mta-nyc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/mta_nyc.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php |
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| (38264) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 17:07:56 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:53:31 2005. At Utica Ave/Fulton and South 4th Street (Broadway on the G) sstation shells WERE built. Pics have been posted (Subtalk I think) showing the shell of South 4 St. station And one time when I used the employees toilet at Utica I did see a stairway that would have gone down to the Utica Ave. platform. It was one of those few times I didn't bring my camera. 8-( |
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| (38267) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 17:09:53 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 12 16:56:56 2005. This time if anyone has to be blamed for bringing it up,It wasn't me. |
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| (38268) | |
Re: 76th St Station |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Jan 12 17:10:29 2005, in response to Re: 76th St Station, posted by vengence on Wed Jan 12 17:00:56 2005. This time there will be an answer once and for all. |
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