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| UPDATE: No police report filed (337749) | |
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| (343148) | |
UPDATE: No police report filed |
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Posted by Palal on Sat Nov 25 16:21:52 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. Update: Contacted WMATA records dep't. No police report of the incident has been filed.I also mailed my complaints to WMATA police internal affairs and WMATA customer service. |
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| (343151) | |
Re: UPDATE: No police report filed |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Nov 25 16:40:47 2006, in response to UPDATE: No police report filed, posted by Palal on Sat Nov 25 16:21:52 2006. No police report of the incident has been filed.Not surprising. They would only be providing a record of their own impropriety if they made a report. |
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| (343161) | |
Re: UPDATE: No police report filed |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Nov 25 17:28:13 2006, in response to UPDATE: No police report filed, posted by Palal on Sat Nov 25 16:21:52 2006. Good for you. I wish you luck. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (343407) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by BIE on Sun Nov 26 09:02:17 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Nov 13 15:41:54 2006. I hope those pigs who murdered that bridegroom BURN. but they won't Pigs +NEVER, EVER get the max.) Maybe they need to give them single shots. |
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| (343425) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Sun Nov 26 09:59:47 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Easy on Mon Nov 13 15:19:48 2006. I don't think they're confused at all. I think they enjoy throwing their weight around and know that they can do so with impunity. This sort of thing has happened too often, and received too much attention in the press and elsewhere, for the officers to not know the score. |
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| (343438) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Sun Nov 26 10:15:34 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 19:58:11 2006. While I agree that, as a practical matter, it is smart to have a copy of the printout with you, as a matter of principle, needing to do so is appalling.It is absolutely not the same as being required to carry your driver's license while driving. Driving is a privilege bestowed by the state upon certain conditions, among them the requirement to carry one's license while operating the vehicle. But we are not required to carry proof of all our freedoms with us. Aside from it being impractical -- do we need documentation from the owner of every building we might choose to photograph? -- the implication is that the police are authorized to trample our rights and threaten us with arrest unless we meet some burden of proving the legality of our behavior, on the spot. That is 180 degrees the opposite of the entire American legal tradition and a fundamental violation of our civil rights. The best antidote for this continuing behavior by police departments (and it isn't limited to transit systems) are lawsuits. The ACLU, as has been discussed on this site, is preparing a lawsuit in New York. In Washington, a non-transit related incident -- the outrageous corralling and arrest of law-abiding citizens in Pershing Park during the World Bank protests -- led to a successful lawsuit and a major civil judgment against the city. The DC police have been much better behaved toward protesters since then. The idea that the police don't know what they are doing is nonsense. They know exactly what they are doing and they, or their superiors, need to pay a price for it so that it stops. |
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| (343470) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 26 11:59:53 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Brighton Private on Sun Nov 26 10:15:34 2006. good post |
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| (343471) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Sun Nov 26 12:02:16 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 26 11:59:53 2006. Thanks. |
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| (343478) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Nov 26 12:31:54 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Brighton Private on Sun Nov 26 10:15:34 2006. Agreed! |
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| (343511) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by JPC on Sun Nov 26 13:26:53 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Brighton Private on Sun Nov 26 10:15:34 2006. Amen! |
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| (343546) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun Nov 26 14:17:44 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Nov 13 15:40:59 2006. Hmm, that's very intriguing. I was actually taking pictures yesterday with a friend at Rockville station, trying to get a pic of an Orion V and had my camera out waiting. There had been police walking around for whatever reason before I took out the camera anyway. My friend told me an officer was watching me, but he never came up to confront me at all.This is very interesting, this situation, as I was under the impression that photography was permitted on the subway, and was, well, recognized in that fashion. I was never confronted by anyone anyway, as usually I just take a picture of a train, and then board that same train before it departs, provided that is the train I need to reach my final desination. |
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| (343554) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun Nov 26 14:23:07 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Nov 13 16:47:56 2006. Sigh, it's not that serious... as WMATAGHOAGH stated, it would've been in his best interest to just go to another station, where he wouldn't be troubled. Or, heck, come back another time to that same station. In other words, it isn't worth it, but if he wants to, just bring a printout the next time...Fortunately, this is an uncommon experience. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun Nov 26 14:28:35 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Nov 14 22:45:42 2006. Hmph, SEPTA's "permit". Just to let you all know, I used a SEPTA "permit" on this group that a few PTV people went on in June. Their "permit" is really a photo release form, with some handwritten directions that photography was approved at certain locations during the off-peak hours (these locations would have to be stated to the person distributing the permit).I usually don't have problems when taking rail pictures, but at the same time I tend to shy away from major stations. Also, if I do, I'm usually on the next train out. Standing up and being proud and whatnot are great and whatnot, and I really wish there would be more movement (strength in numbers) to support it, but I really don't want to start a police record as well as even be bothered because I'm taking pictures. |
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| (343584) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 26 15:05:16 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun Nov 26 14:17:44 2006. It is permitted. |
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| (343878) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Mon Nov 27 00:12:53 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Brighton Private on Sun Nov 26 10:15:34 2006. Eloquent, excellent...and correct.I could not have said it any better. Thank you for writing this. |
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| (343927) | |
Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 27 08:28:13 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun Nov 26 14:28:35 2006. I hear you. But if I lived in Philly i'd organize such a strength in numbers photography event and keep repeating it until we'd win. Thanks for info that a Septa "permit" actually does exist. But based on your description, it does not seem legally necessary for taking photos. |
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| (344820) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by ntrainride on Wed Nov 29 11:34:15 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by BIE on Sun Nov 26 09:02:17 2006. Who the f r u 2 call `em pigs? Man u need some kinda kick ass, to be running off at the mouth like that. U got a lot 2 learn, internet tuff guy... |
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| (344849) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Wed Nov 29 12:17:47 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Nov 13 15:41:54 2006. "Fascist/facism:" a form of government (and an adherent thereto) in which all authority is vested in a single leader, who can effectively extinguish what rights individual citizens may formally possess by claiming the power to jail them without judicial supervision, to deny them rights to a lawyer or appeal to an independent judiciary, for an indefinite period of time, without bringing any charges against them; who asserts the right to ignore lawful statutes without either veto or judicial review; who asserts the right to abrogate lawful treaties including but not limited to the Geneva Conventions; who asserts the right to torture and otherwise coerce prisoners of the state, including the right to secretly transport such person to other countries where they are subject to torture at the hands of those governments, or to hold them incommunicado in secret prisons outside the reach of the judiciary and international organizations, in violation of the law; and who asserts the right to conduct warrantless domestic surveillance without warrant and in violation of applicable statutes. Such governments are typically characterized by creating and maintaining a climate of fear, in which civil liberties are suspended or eliminated, often through the use of foreign and/or domestic scapegoats and by the designation of political opponents as disloyal to the state or supporters of its enemies. Such governments are also often characterized by military adventurism and warfare which add to the climate of fear and provide additional justification for the curtailment of civil liberties and expansion of the powers of the state's military and security apparatus.Sound familiar? |
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| (344852) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Wed Nov 29 12:20:05 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Bingham C50 on Mon Nov 27 00:12:53 2006. Thank you. |
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| (348717) | |
UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by Palal on Wed Dec 6 00:41:16 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. 12/5/06Sgt. J. Sawyers Stated that officer was acting under policy, which states that photography of infrastructure and architecture is prohibited. This policy was not available to public and was initiated by Chief Polly L. Hansen. When asked what to do with regards to elevating this complaint regarding policy, Sgt. Sawyers suggested filing a complaint against the Chief of Metro Transit Police. He also stated, “There does not have to be a law to prohibit you from taking pictures of the infrastructure of [WMATA] facilities.” He acknowledged conflict with WMATA policy and stated that Metro Police policy supersedes WMATA policy and that WMATA personnel do not have to know Metro Transit Police policy. Re-iterated the fact that photography of individuals on the system was allowed. He stated that he will consider reprimanding the officer, pending the officer’s version of the events, for threatening me with arrest if I did not comply with instructions to proceed to my final destination without exiting the system. |
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| (348720) | |
Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Dec 6 00:54:53 2006, in response to UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police, posted by Palal on Wed Dec 6 00:41:16 2006. There does not have to be a law to prohibit you from taking pictures of the infrastructure of [WMATA] facilities.He's a police officer, so he should know that that it's the responsibility of the police to enforce the law, not to create the law. They can't stop people from participating in legal activities just because they don't like the activity for some misguided reason. |
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| (348733) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Dec 6 03:38:59 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. well,''''WMATAGMOAGH''''your good ol' gestapo washington d.c. transit nazis are at it again! dont you you just love them ?? you do !! |
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| (348735) | |
Re:What ever you do do not take pictues of MARTA trains !! |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Dec 6 03:40:49 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. Re:What ever you do do not take pictues of MARTA trains !! |
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| (348736) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Dec 6 03:41:24 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Dec 6 03:38:59 2006. What ever you do do not take pictues of MARTA trains !!you will be arrested imediately in athanta, georgia!! Re:What ever you do do not take pictues of MARTA trains !! |
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| (348747) | |
Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Wed Dec 6 04:38:37 2006, in response to Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police, posted by Easy on Wed Dec 6 00:54:53 2006. Exactly. The idea that the police can adopt a policy that expressly contravenes the policy of the agency they work for is the very definition of a police state. It's ludicrous, and it's not legal, although these days in Washington it's easy to see where they get the idea they can do stuff like that. |
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| (348773) | |
Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 6 07:08:15 2006, in response to UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police, posted by Palal on Wed Dec 6 00:41:16 2006. What a load of B.S. Time to get a lawyer. |
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| (348800) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Allan on Wed Dec 6 08:14:30 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Dec 6 03:38:59 2006. You realize that the posting by Palal is almost a month old. |
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| (348836) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Wed Dec 6 09:54:22 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Brighton Private on Wed Nov 29 12:17:47 2006. What is the source of your definition? Just wondering... |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Wed Dec 6 10:01:36 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 15 14:04:34 2006. I got lectured taking a picture in the Times Square Station of the row of ads of Broadway shows once. Go figure! In Toronto, the streetcar drivers have stopped their vehicles while I take my picture, so it looks just right. |
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| (348846) | |
Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 6 10:04:19 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Wed Dec 6 10:01:36 2006. Lectured by whom? |
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| (348848) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Wed Dec 6 10:04:50 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Dec 6 03:41:24 2006. Maybe it's your style. I have a nice set of photos of the Atlanta Metro, including pictures taken out the front window, and the driver certainly knew what I was doing. I have pictures from the platform, and of the inside of both styles of rail cars. I even have pictures of the Airport station mezzanine with the stationmaster smiling in the picture.Maybe I just seem calmer and pleasanter. I haven't been arrested there yet. |
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| (348849) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 6 10:06:42 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Wed Dec 6 10:04:50 2006. It is unlikely that you would get arrested since it isn't illegal. |
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| (348896) | |
Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Dec 6 11:05:32 2006, in response to UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police, posted by Palal on Wed Dec 6 00:41:16 2006. It seems to me the sergeant is wrong. Giving the Chief a litytle benefit of the doubt, he may be misinterpreting what the Chief said.The Chief of Mtro Police reports to the General Manager of WMATA or one of his deputies. She definitely does NOT have the authority to supersede management's policies. |
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| (348905) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 6 11:12:54 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Dec 6 03:38:59 2006. This officer seems to be confused and it is an isolated incident. I rarely encounter problems.And don't now try to say that you never make unprovoked attacks. I would say that you just made one,. |
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| (349203) | |
Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by Palal on Wed Dec 6 17:20:38 2006, in response to Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 6 07:08:15 2006. Hmmm.... would the ACLU be interested in this? |
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| (349212) | |
Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Wed Dec 6 17:27:41 2006, in response to Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police, posted by Brighton Private on Wed Dec 6 04:38:37 2006. Look at the WMATA org chart (a favorite activity of WMATA employees, the beauracracy can keep anyone occupied for years) and you will see that under the General Manager exists Safety and the Transit Police.Organizationally nobody but the board or the GM can make Polly Hanson do anything. Maybe the new GM will have the guts to stand up to her on these issues, the last three GM's sure haven't. Chief Hanson pretty much knows that she's gonna outlast whatever GM comes through anyway! |
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| (349226) | |
Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 6 17:53:23 2006, in response to Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police, posted by Palal on Wed Dec 6 17:20:38 2006. I would say yes. |
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Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 6 20:37:05 2006, in response to Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Wed Dec 6 17:27:41 2006. Polly Hanson came during the Richard White tenure. His permanent replacement has not officially started work yet, there have been two interim GMs since he resigned. There is on guarentee she will outlast the next GM, I don't know where you reached that conclusion from. |
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| (349443) | |
Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by Jon Bell on Wed Dec 6 23:20:12 2006, in response to Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Dec 6 11:05:32 2006. Giving the Chief a litytle benefit of the doubt, he [the sargeant] may be misinterpreting what the Chief said.Acting on that theory, the next step would be to try to get a response directly from the Chief. If she confirms that she has unilaterally set forth a no-photography policy, then the next step would be to approach the GM, perhaps with backup from the local chapter of the ACLU. |
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| (349459) | |
Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 7 00:02:40 2006, in response to Re: UPDATE 2: Chat with WMATA police, posted by Jon Bell on Wed Dec 6 23:20:12 2006. Agreed.If I were the GM, I would be upset about one of my subordinates making policy without my consent, and then telling people openly she can contravene my executive decisions. |
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