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| Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool (1650201) | |
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| (1650435) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Aug 27 12:42:25 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Aug 26 21:00:21 2026. Fake news.Germany is dismantling some 20 year old wind turbines that have reached the end of their useful life. The turbines are on top of a coal deposit which can be mined, but only until 2030. Wind can be unreliable, but wind tends to be best when the sun isn't there, so wind plus solar plus batteries can be remarkably reliable. |
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| (1650436) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Aug 27 15:05:57 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by AlM on Thu Aug 27 12:42:25 2026. Dismantling but not replacing. |
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| (1650437) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Aug 27 17:25:53 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Aug 27 15:05:57 2026. But they're building much bigger wind farms elsewhere in Germany. So the capacity is being replaced, and more. |
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| (1650438) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Aug 27 18:13:46 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by AlM on Thu Aug 27 17:25:53 2026. The problem is that Germany is facing major challenges with wind power. The best wind conditions exist in northern Germany while major industrial demand is in the south. Enter the need for more power lines with accompanying unsightly towers. Also in the mix is a lengthy bureaucratic permitting process coupled with inconsistent wind conditions resulting in the use of gas fired backup generators to remain on line. Also fierce local political opposition over landscape and wildlife concerns. Bottom line here is that wind power is far from a slam dunk to solve Germany's electrical needs. |
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| (1650440) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Aug 27 19:02:03 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Aug 27 18:13:46 2026. while major industrial demand is in the southI think you are using sources with a deliberate bias. Hamburg and the Ruhr are in the north. |
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| (1650441) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Thu Aug 27 23:31:24 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Aug 27 18:13:46 2026. Yeah, a powerline is clean compared to most industrial stuff, but personally I don't want to be anywhere near 750,000 volt lines, switchgear or the substation it lands at, and HV lines are ugly. |
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| (1650453) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Aug 28 17:08:14 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by AlM on Thu Aug 27 19:02:03 2026. ...and Bavaria and Baden-Wurttemberg are in the south, areas that dominate modern high-tech and automotive manufacturing.Simply put on a North v/s South geographically speaking basis, southern Germany is currently more economically robust and successfully industrialized. Whereas the true North remains largely rural and agrarian. |
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| (1650465) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 29 17:23:32 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Aug 28 17:08:14 2026. Eh? Airbus is in Hamburg; VW is in Wolfsburg; Alstom is in Salzgitter. |
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| (1650485) | |
Re: Another Socialist Money Pit: was Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 31 03:10:58 2026, in response to Another Socialist Money Pit: was Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Wed Aug 26 09:38:19 2026. That's all it ever was, of course. |
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| (1650487) | |
Re: Another Socialist Money Pit: was Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Aug 31 10:10:04 2026, in response to Re: Another Socialist Money Pit: was Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 31 03:10:58 2026. Well. when you read the plan description, and they say that they are going to take heat from the subway and use it to heat near by buildings, i have to ask. Why are you going to heat buildings in the summer? Is there a big demand for building heat in the summer? |
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| (1650490) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Aug 31 11:24:40 2026, in response to Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 11 14:41:11 2026. This technology is mostly used outside the US. It's used to heat/cool a large number of buildings for each installation. Whether it would work at the planned site is problematic.The technology is basically heat transfer. There are 2 technologies. The first assumes a large thermal mass that's at a comfortable temperature. About 10 ft below ground, the temperature is usually between 55 and 65 degrees F. This is the root cellar that our great-grand parents used before refrigeration. 1. In winter, cold air (or a refrigerant heated from it) from the building is piped into the thermal mass and warmer air/refrigerant is piped from it. The earth's large thermal mass will heat any air from the building up to the thermal mass' temperature. In summer, the hot air/refrigerant from the building is piped into the thermal mass. The hot air/refrigerant releases its heat into the thermal mass. This has a negligible effect on the thermal mass' temperature. The hot air/refrigerant temperature lowers to the thermal mass temperature and is piped back into the building, providing cool air. 2. The second technology has 2 large thermal masses in the ground that are insulated from the ground and each other. One of the thermal masses will store the outdoor temperature during winter; the other will store the outdoor temperature during summer. In winter the cold outside air/refrigerant is piped into the winter thermal mass; keeping the winter thermal mass cold. Another refrigerant from the summer thermal mass is piped into the building to heat it. In summer, the hot outside air/refrigerant is piped into the summer thermal mass; keeping the summer thermal mass hot. Another refrigerant from the winter thermal mass is piped into the building to cool it. |
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| (1650491) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 31 11:29:13 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Aug 31 11:24:40 2026. LOL Should work as well as solar and wind energy has proven to be effective. |
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| (1650493) | |
Re: Another Socialist Money Pit: was Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Q4 on Mon Aug 31 11:36:39 2026, in response to Re: Another Socialist Money Pit: was Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Aug 31 10:10:04 2026. 🤔 |
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| (1650497) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Mon Aug 31 13:54:46 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Aug 31 11:24:40 2026. How about using regen, eventually expanded to all underground braking events? Even at 20% loss (could do better) that's an enormous amount of heat not dumped into the tunnels and then to the street above. Yes there are technical matters re one substation to the next, DC to AC conversions, possible short term (<10 minute) energy storage, but all of those are known and solvable issues. |
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| (1650504) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Aug 31 19:02:18 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Aug 31 13:54:46 2026. A couple of facts to keep in mind. NY City Subway Cars are preset to supply air conditioning when a car interior goes above 71 degrees F. Every subway car has 18 tons of AC or 216,000 BTU. That's 2,180,000 BTU per train X more than 250 trains. Thats alot of heat being constantly pumped back into the tunnels.The tunnel ambient Temp. easily exceeds 110 degrees in the summer. When you consider the volume of tunnel air and that hochul and mamdummy being involved, what could go wrong? |
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| (1650505) | |
Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Mon Aug 31 19:19:24 2026, in response to Re: Mamdani, Hochul want to make the subways cool, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Mon Aug 31 19:02:18 2026. Oh, everything. With those 2 giving the orders, it'll be done in 2030 at a mere 500% cost over estimate.My regen proposal won't end hot tunnels, but it would reduce the heat load and result in some reduction in station temps. Reducing the heat load would also reduce the amount of work done by the train's A/C compressors, which would be an additional increment of heat un-loading. How much all together? Maybe ask Mr Baumann or someone who works in NYCTA electrical engineering. It's gotta be a lot: the energy of around 800,000 pounds of train at 25 or 30 mph (them things are slooow) being burned off at every stop adds up. That's, uhh, around 1/10 of a megawatt-hour each stop, using a napkin and crayons estimate. |
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