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| (1646253) | |
Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by gbs on Sun Jan 18 22:05:54 2026 After reading the recent post about cars on the Third Av El, which mentioned the World's Fair cars, I searched photos of those cars and found this picture, which is even more interesting because of its location: Lenox Terminal in 1949, before being covered over. At first I couldn't identify the yard. Then I read the description and realized why it looked so unfamiliar. I'm guessing that most of us here have never seen that yard looking like that, because before it was covered over, it wasn't open to the public since the station wasn't there.  The apartment building in the background is still there, now across the street from the 148-Lenox station. This is from 1970, about two years after the station opened: 
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| (1646254) | |
Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by andy on Sun Jan 18 23:02:16 2026, in response to Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by gbs on Sun Jan 18 22:05:54 2026. This yard was adjacent to the IRT’s main car repair shop (147th Street). The shop buildings were closed around 1960 and IRT car repairs were transferred to 207th Street, where most A Division repairs are still done. About six tracks were retained for overnight train storage. The 148th Street station opened in May 1968. A large middle-income high-rise complex, Esplanade Gardens, was built atop the old repair shop site and the current 148th St. station. |
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| (1646255) | |
Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 19 03:46:32 2026, in response to Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by andy on Sun Jan 18 23:02:16 2026. Correct. “Lenox Terminal” did not exist until 1968. The photos of the W/F cars brings two thoughts to mind which I have been thinking about. One is why did the B of T cover the bottom half of the destination signs when the R types that replaced them had 2 row readings. The second is that since the R-12s end bonnet was very similar to the W/Fs, why did the B of T decide to add the route sign window and establish route numbers for the IRT instead of having just a single destination sign like the W/Fs? Unlike the BMT, the IRT till the R-12s never had route numbers so why start them especially since they conflicted with the BMT numbers? |
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Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Mon Jan 19 07:10:44 2026, in response to Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by gbs on Sun Jan 18 22:05:54 2026. Gbs: That is an excellent photo of a World's Fair car. Thank you for posting it.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1646265) | |
Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 19 13:01:01 2026, in response to Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by andy on Sun Jan 18 23:02:16 2026. The apartment complex was built over the shop site, but does not cover the station nor any tracks. The station and tracks are covered by a school which was built around the same time. |
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| (1646267) | |
Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Mon Jan 19 15:37:22 2026, in response to Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 19 03:46:32 2026. Perhaps they had a long-term plan to do what eventually occurred, which is the merger of the IND and the BMT and the adoption of the IND letter scheme for both? After all, the BMT route numbers were not even publicly listed on the old Hagstrom maps, and many BMT cars, like the Standards, did not list route numbers at all. |
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| (1646272) | |
Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jan 19 19:35:06 2026, in response to Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Italianstallion on Mon Jan 19 15:37:22 2026. That's been my point all along: BMT number markings were not consistently applied, so they didn't catch on. People used the route titles, and they stuck. I doubt if any Brooklynite ever referred to a Brighton train as a 1, or a Sea Beach Express as a 4, even though those two routes were served by Triplexes. |
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| (1646279) | |
Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 19 21:51:49 2026, in response to Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Italianstallion on Mon Jan 19 15:37:22 2026. That may be true, but even after the R-12 were delivered, the B of T and Ta continued to used route number son the BMT when they ordered the R-16s so I’m not sure if the merger was being planned that far back. |
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| (1646295) | |
Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Tue Jan 20 15:55:18 2026, in response to Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 19 21:51:49 2026. In my opinion, the old TA and B of T were never organized or consistent when it came to signage or wayfinding in general, whether on trains or in stations. Until the Vignelli era, we know that station directional signage was a total hodgepodge of nomenclature, fonts, colors, wording and shapes, in other words a clusterfuck. Ditto, to a lesser extent, train signage. Some cars had front signs, others didn’t. Routes had dIfferent names on roll signs for different classes of cars. Maps were outsourced to Hagstrom. It all seemed so ad hoc. |
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| (1646316) | |
Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 21 03:30:26 2026, in response to Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Italianstallion on Tue Jan 20 15:55:18 2026. Actually, before the letterization of the BMT with the arrival of the R-27s there was a definite logic the both the BMT’s and IRT’s numbering schemes and the IND’s lettering schemes. The letterization of BMT lines was an attempt to bring signage into compliance with the IND but unfortunately it didn’t work for thr BMT. While the IND’s lettering system attached the lines’ letters to appropriate combinations of branch line to trunk line such as A/AA with Wash Hts/8th Ave, B/BB Wash Hts/6th Ave, C/CC Concourse/8th Ave etc, BMT route numbers were the same for the branch lines regardless of whether the trains ran via Bway or Nassau St. Thus 1 was Brighton for both Bway and Nassau services, 2 was 4th Ave for both Beay and Nassau services (although on those lines the Nassau service were rush hour specials only and 3 was West end for both the express via Bway and the lcl via Nassau St. When the TA started to letterize the BMT lines, it made the mistake of combining the readings of the branch and trunk lines so that for example the Brighton read Q/Bway-Brighton Exp, the 4th Ave read RR/Bway- 4th Ave Lcl etc despite the fact that both those line had special rush hour services via Nassau St. When the time came to assign R types to those lines, the Nassau specials ended up being mislabeled as M/ Nassau St Exp, a letter that was actually meant forthe Myrtle-Chambers service. The only reading that left out the Manhattan trunk line for the local was TT which read simply TT/West End Lcl since it ran both as a Nassau St service and a West End shuttle to 36th St. Starting with the R-32s, the branch line names were eliminated from the reading completely with the route only indicating “Broadway.” The so called reason being that the other divisions don;t have branch line names in the readings so why should the BMT. The cesspool of incompetence that passes for TA planning totally ignored the fact that unlike the other divisions, the BMT had multiple branch lines going to a common terminal, Stillwell, so the branch line names were essential. Common sense which the planners obviously lacked mandated that the readings should have only the branch line names and leave off the Manhattan route name so that proper readings could be displayed for all possible services. |
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| (1646325) | |
Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by zac on Wed Jan 21 12:05:49 2026, in response to Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 21 03:30:26 2026. Part of the reason the R32s were done like that is that Chrystie St was about to happen. Of course they still messed that up, creating a B train but leaving it off the signs for whatever reason, also the QJ, RJ and all of those other oddball routes.Then, the next screw up, was with the R40s-R46s with the wide signs and strip maps that didn't have all the routes, only the ones to which the cars were assigned and yet cars get reassigned all the time, and the routes themselves kept changing. Even today, the R68s don't have signs for 96st/2nd Ave but yet are being assigned to the Q. It may only be temporary, but it could be a few years. |
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Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by gbs on Wed Jan 21 22:55:53 2026, in response to Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by zac on Wed Jan 21 12:05:49 2026. Then, the next screw up, was with the R40s The screw up was felt immediately. The first R40s to arrive were assigned to Jamaica Yard, and came with only 4 front signs: blank, E, F, and S. During the week they ran on the E and F, so no problem, but on the weekends they were split into smaller trains and ran on the GG, without proper signs, so they displayed either blank, half-half, or S, all of which were inappropriate. Later they ran on other lines, also without proper signs. Talk about incompetence! B:  Brighton:  Broadway:  D:   EE:  Fourth Av:  Even after the front hardware was added, the signs were still missing. GG:  This was corrected with the R40Ms later in 1969:  |
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[PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 06:45:00 2026, in response to Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by gbs on Wed Jan 21 22:55:53 2026. 
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jan 22 08:57:03 2026, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 06:45:00 2026. I’m going to make this my screen saverThank you. Where and when? Around 1969-70? |
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| (1646341) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 11:21:07 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jan 22 08:57:03 2026. I’m going to make this my screen saverThank you. Where and when? Around 1969-70? Ditmas Ave (F) Culver Line. February 10, 1969. Bill M. |
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| (1646342) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Jan 22 11:33:35 2026, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 06:45:00 2026. Bill: So the train was signed up "S" for snow? Larry, Redbirdr33 |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jan 22 11:48:56 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 11:21:07 2026. Ha. I figured it was that Lindsay storm |
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| (1646345) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Jan 22 14:14:19 2026, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 06:45:00 2026. And let me guess...they will shut down most of the system... |
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| (1646347) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 15:39:29 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Jan 22 11:33:35 2026. Bill: So the train was signed up "S" for snow?Larry, Redbirdr33 lol....good one Larry. Perhaps these units were assigned to the (A) line and didn't have the proper signs for the (F). Bill M. |
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| (1646350) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Jan 22 17:07:00 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 15:39:29 2026. That was a common failing with all those large roll signs. At first I thought that it might be the Culver Shuttle. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1646351) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jan 22 17:51:25 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Jan 22 17:07:00 2026. I thought It was an equipment move., say going down to CIY shops. |
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| (1646353) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 18:36:33 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Jan 22 14:14:19 2026. I guess this looks like shut down. 
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| (1646356) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 22 18:49:03 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 15:39:29 2026. At that time none of the R-40s were assigned to the A. |
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| (1646357) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Jan 22 19:43:06 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 18:36:33 2026. I understand outdoor sections, but underground should be running normal. |
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| (1646359) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jan 23 06:23:47 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 22 18:49:03 2026. At that time none of the R-40s were assigned to the A.You're correct. The slants started to appear on the (A) in the 1970's, correct ? Bill M. |
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| (1646360) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 23 09:54:48 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Jan 22 14:14:19 2026. I always tell the story of my granddad walked from his house on Troy Ave to Cortelyou Rd station so he could get to work in Coney Island Yard and run those snow buster trains to keep the system open. Almost 69 years old at the time. |
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| (1646361) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 23 10:17:40 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 23 09:54:48 2026. That would be the time of the Standards and D Types when they were able to disable the trip cocks so the trains wouldn't go BIE in the snow. But doing that did compromise safety. |
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| (1646362) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 23 19:44:13 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jan 23 06:23:47 2026. They pushed the immortal R-10s off the Abbott in 1977. |
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| (1646363) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 23 19:44:55 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 15:39:29 2026. Might have been S for Soitenly.:) |
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| (1646368) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 24 08:11:44 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 18:36:33 2026. The show must go on!:) |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 05:43:26 2026, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Lenox Terminal, uncovered, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 22 18:36:33 2026. Obviously before we had the level of "ambulance chasers" we have now. |
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