[PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway

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[PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025 Fasten your seat belts for a ride on the IND subway ! The result of a catastrophic collision that claimed #212, #378 & #472. All three units were scrapped on 2/17/1936. Contract R-9 added three cars as replacements. #1880, #1801 & #1802. Original caption for photo states 25th Ave - West End Line. Correct ? R-1's assigned to the #2 Fourth ave local dead heading to Coney Island yard. (undated photo)/b> Interior view of R-6-3 #980 (A.C.F. built 1935-36) Car card that most likely displayed on IND equipment as well as local trolleys advertising LaGuardia Field and their observation deck for the admission fee of 10 cents. November 23, 1948 memo alerting employees that new equipment (R-10s) are equipped with air horns. R-4 #733 was used to test "axflow" ceiling fans that would later appear on IRT R-15 contract. Also as a test bed for a revised interior, what was rumored as R-1 #103 sporting longitudinal seating, fluorescent lighting and smaller ceiling fans. (undated photo) Just outside 20th St shops stands R-4 #535 displaying "BRONX EXPRESS". I wasn't aware of this roll sign of Bronx Express. (Undated photo) The extension of BMT service to Astoria enlisted the help of the IND division that sent R-1's to the #2 Fourth Ave. local service seen here at 14th St. Union Square. Posted notice of subway changes due to water main break (December 7, 1962) This scene at the West 8th St. station was taken sometime after IND takeover shows this neighborhood has changed dramatically. Drill motor #41 (1931 or 32 Magor Car Corp. builder) at 207th St. yard. #41 is preserved while sister car #42 was scrapped sometime after a collision.(Photo: April 27, 1963) Drill motor #42 at 207th St. yard. (undated photo) A test to simplify car cleaning using a gasoline engine vacuum cleaner didn't last long. Exhaust fumes and dust generation would probably cause health issues with employee using it. (undated photo) R-8 cars #66 & #67 were blind motor cars especially made for revenue collection. (207th St. yard April 27, 1963) #67 at the N.Y. Cross Harbor yard at 1st Ave. in Brooklyn awaiting to be sent out for scrap. Don Harold once told me he wanted to have this car rehabbed for use to run with the Nostalgia Specials of the late 1970's as a car selling refreshments, collectibles etc. (April 1986) Interior view of #67 showing how this car was outfitted for collection of revenues. (undated photo) Bare bones interior view of #67 at 1st Ave. yard. (April 1986) MTA paint applied to R-9 cars didn't sit well for some rail fans. Here's one instance of a complete and not mixed consist. Location: Knickerbocker Ave. (M) Myrtle Ave line. (April 7, 1971) And for the final photo, this is what a freshly repainted interior of a silver/blue R-9 looks like. (undated photo) Yes, there will be a part two next week. Thanks for viewing.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by trains61* on Sun Sep 21 10:26:26 2025, in response to [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025.* Very nice photos. Looking forward to part 2. My favorite photo thus far, is the one of LGA and the unmistakable profile of the Marine Air Terminal. Thanks for posting these. The Lurkers' Guild KLGA MAT 1979 thru 1984
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Q4 on Sun Sep 21 14:08:47 2025, in response to [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025. ❤️❤️
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Bill from Maspeth* on Sun Sep 21 14:42:12 2025, in response to [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025.* Fabulous photos and memories
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by W.B.* on Sun Sep 21 14:48:24 2025, in response to [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025.* Count me as being appreciative . . . as for the shot with the "Bronx Express" sign at 207th, I remember seeing that picture in Frederick Kramer's "Building the Independent Subway" book.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Sun Sep 21 14:56:27 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by W.B. on Sun Sep 21 14:48:24 2025.* Count me as being appreciative . . . as for the shot with the "Bronx Express" sign at 207th, I remember seeing that picture in Frederick Kramer's "Building the Independent Subway" book. Thank you. That photo was scanned from a photo and not the book, just to let you know. I've never seen the Bronx Express segment on any roll sign. Bill M.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Sun Sep 21 19:24:44 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 14:56:27 2025.* There is a photo of an old timer sporting a Concourse Fordham Rd front sign. Another holy grail, right up there with the IND World's Fair sign.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by zac* on Mon Sep 22 09:31:45 2025, in response to [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025.* The MTA paint on the R9s was akin to putting lipstick on a pig. It is still a pig.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Wallyhorse* on Mon Sep 22 10:52:38 2025, in response to [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025.* That crash must have been bad in the first photo. The last photo of a newly painted R-9, I doubt they realized that was begging to be tagged with graffiti.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by italianguyinsi* on Mon Sep 22 12:27:11 2025, in response to [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025.* Thank you for sharing these wonderful photos! shame the IND revenue cars were scrapped.....
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Mark S. Feinman* on Mon Sep 22 13:29:10 2025, in response to [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025.* This is great! Thank you for sharing. The bar car idea for #67 ... that would have been something. --Mark
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Q65A* on Mon Sep 22 15:10:12 2025, in response to [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025.* Great pix; thanks for posting!
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Elkeeper* on Mon Sep 22 15:57:41 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by trains61 on Sun Sep 21 10:26:26 2025.* Too bad that the City did not extend the Queens lines to LaGuardia Apt. It could have been done under the Grand Central Pkwy or via Steinway St and Ditmars Blvd.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Mon Sep 22 19:01:16 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Mon Sep 22 13:29:10 2025.* The bar car idea for #67 ... that would have been something. It was already done: On January 12, 1962, a publicity stunt that failed.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Mon Sep 22 19:04:19 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by italianguyinsi on Mon Sep 22 12:27:11 2025.* Thank you for sharing these wonderful photos! shame the IND revenue cars were scrapped..... Thank you, that car would have fit perfectly on the nostalgia runs to the Rockaways and Coney Island. The NY Transit Museum could have used it a rolling gift shop. Bill M.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Mon Sep 22 19:15:06 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Q65A on Mon Sep 22 15:10:12 2025.* Great pix; thanks for posting! Glad you liked them. Bill M.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Mon Sep 22 19:21:20 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by zac on Mon Sep 22 09:31:45 2025.* The MTA paint on the R9s was akin to putting lipstick on a pig. It is still a pig. OINK !!
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by BLE-NIMX* on Mon Sep 22 19:39:25 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Sep 22 19:21:20 2025.* I see a single track baton in the cab!
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Handbrake* on Mon Sep 22 20:03:15 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Sep 21 19:24:44 2025.* Unfortunately before the era of the Transit Museum, and large scale Transit oriented organized Railfan initiatives, or interest, first generation rollsigns of the IND, and BMT, ended up in trash cans. This true up until the early 80's when the first, and early generation IRT SMEE fleet equipment was replaced by R62 railcars. The R12-22 series cars went to the scrapper with their their IRT rollsigns. The TA crews that dragged the first Gen IRT cars to Cross Harbor for handoff to be scrapped didn't think, except a few of them, to remove the rollsigns before the cars were dropped off on 2nd Avenue Brooklyn. The last licks for roll signs collectors are the R62 & R68 fleet. Once those cars are gone, the fat lady of the roll sign collection society will have sung her final song.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by gbs* on Tue Sep 23 00:49:52 2025, in response to [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Sep 21 09:55:32 2025.* Of all the "modifications" made to the poor old R1/9s in their later years, the worst was replacing the soft padded wicker and vinyl seats and seat backs with hard plastic. The plastic replacements did not have the same shapes, contours, and curves as the originals and were incredibly uncomfortable, the worst offenders being the high seat backs on the transverse seats, which lacked the bottom bulge. I understand why the soft seats were replaced, but the replacements could have been made more friendly to the human body, especially the spine.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by gbs* on Tue Sep 23 01:11:18 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by trains61 on Sun Sep 21 10:26:26 2025.* Everyone should visit the Marine Air Terminal, for its historical significance and its exterior and interior beauty, including the WPA-era murals. Wikipedia article The Q33 now serves the Marine Air Terminal, officially called Terminal A. Q33 schedule
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by BILLBKLYN* on Tue Sep 23 02:49:04 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Handbrake on Mon Sep 22 20:03:15 2025.* I was dumb, as I had the chance to get rollsigns from the old cars in the mid-late 80s that were on the scrap line at the 1st Avenue NYCHRR yard.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Tue Sep 23 08:49:30 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Sep 22 19:39:25 2025.* see a single track baton in the cab! Yep, clear as day. Bill M.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Tue Sep 23 08:51:04 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by gbs on Tue Sep 23 00:49:52 2025.* I understand why the soft seats were replaced, but the replacements could have been made more friendly to the human body, especially the spine. Yep, the R-16 hard seats were just as bad for the back. Bill M.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Bill from Maspeth* on Tue Sep 23 10:01:31 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Sep 23 08:51:04 2025.* And even worse by the protruding panels that housed the door controls.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by trains61* on Tue Sep 23 14:47:04 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by gbs on Tue Sep 23 01:11:18 2025.* I was there when they restored the murals. Smelly, terrible process but worth it. Thanks for posting these photos. Late evenings I swear you could imagine hearing the drones of Pan AM Clippers, off of Flushing Bay. To bad the nimbys prevented the Astoria line from being extended to KLGA.The Q47 used to run from 74th/B'way to the MAT. Has this changed? The Lurkers'Guild Air New England.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by X-Astorian* on Tue Sep 23 17:57:43 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by trains61 on Tue Sep 23 14:47:04 2025.* The Q47 used to run from 74th/B'way to the MAT. Has this changed? Yes, now it's served by the Q33 24/7.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Wallyhorse* on Tue Sep 23 18:51:33 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by trains61 on Tue Sep 23 14:47:04 2025.* That is too bad. Maybe they could have done it by continuing past Ditmars to 20th or 21st Avenue or so and then run along that to get to LaGuardia where fewer residents are (or at that time, were). Now, I would look to extend past Ditmars with the idea of getting the (N) and (W) to The Bronx.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Wallyhorse* on Tue Sep 23 18:52:15 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Sep 22 19:04:19 2025.* That I agree.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Tue Sep 23 18:58:47 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Sep 22 19:21:20 2025.* I can hear Curly now: Nrrrmmmppphhhhhh!!!!!
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Tue Sep 23 19:07:43 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Handbrake on Mon Sep 22 20:03:15 2025.* There was a place known as Cityana Gallery on E. 53rd St. in the late 70s that sold mostly IND rollsigns, still intheir mechanisms. Well, IND mechanisms with Three Stooges Division side destination signs. I did foind one that had an older BMT Southern Division north terminal curtain spliced to the newer Three Stooges Division curtain. Still have it, too. For years I tried to figure out where that older curtain was used. Then it dwaned on me - this curtain came from one of the R-1s that was sent over when the R-10s first arrived! They also had IND front route and destination signs with mechanisms. The side signs were $25.00 each while the front signs were $40.00 each. They had one front curtain with a Queens-Kew Gardens sign, but it was incomplete. I ended up buying one that was complete, minus the "interim" signs, with Coney Island painted over. I also grabbed a front route curtain whose signs were laminated from C on. A, AA, B and BB were not laminated. It doesn't have D-6th Ave-Houston or F-6th Ave-Houston, though.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Wallyhorse* on Tue Sep 23 19:25:33 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Sep 22 19:21:20 2025.* Looks like that silver painting didn't age well. I suspect this was one of the first painted that way and one of the last such cars still in operation.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Wallyhorse* on Tue Sep 23 19:27:55 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Sep 23 10:01:31 2025.* Yep. Those R-16s as I remember had those which made it worse.
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by trains61* on Tue Sep 23 20:07:26 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by X-Astorian on Tue Sep 23 17:57:43 2025.* Thank you. The Lurkers'Guild
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by gbs* on Tue Sep 23 21:25:56 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Sep 23 10:01:31 2025.* 1967, original seats and door panels: 1973, plastic seats, original door panels: 1981, plastic seats, expanded door panels: 2000 (Museum):
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R-16 Cars
Posted by Wallyhorse* on Wed Sep 24 00:36:44 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by gbs on Tue Sep 23 21:25:56 2025.* Why were the door panels expanded in the '70s?
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[PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Wed Sep 24 06:40:33 2025, in response to R-16 Cars, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 24 00:36:44 2025.* Why were the door panels expanded in the '70s? To replace the door motors which had a larger profile. (May 1973)
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway
Posted by Q4 on Wed Sep 24 10:07:28 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odds & Ends Of The IND Subway, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Sep 23 18:51:33 2025. NIMBYs and the politicians in the area killed the idea of extending even though extension was heavily supported by the Mayor and Governor. The opposition was even against a proposed route extending the Astoria Line along 31st Street onto Con Edison's property at the edge of Astoria and then east along 19th Avenue to the Marine Air Terminal.
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Bill from Maspeth* on Wed Sep 24 12:43:51 2025, in response to [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Sep 24 06:40:33 2025.* The modification allowed the R16's to have each door with it's own motor so that you would no longer have 2 adjacent doors not opening anymore if one door had to be cut out. On these and all cars up to the R42, the corner doors had their own motor and the others had 2 door leafs using one motor. So each car had 5 door motors on each side, 4 for the IRT. With this modification all 8 doors on each side of the car had it's own motor. The panels behind the seats were slanted because all the hardware could not fit in there. The modification was bought to the R44's and all new cars in both divisions.
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Catfish 44* on Wed Sep 24 17:25:51 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Sep 24 12:43:51 2025.* Those mods made those cars look pretty cool
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Bill from Maspeth* on Wed Sep 24 18:18:14 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Sep 24 17:25:51 2025.* They were very unique cars to the B Division. Unfortunately they couldn't survive the poor maintenance practices we had during their operating lives.
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Catfish 44* on Wed Sep 24 18:48:09 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Sep 24 18:18:14 2025.* Knowing me I would have been a big fan of them. That fixture gives that tapered look and I can dig that. Better than the flat sides of everything else.
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by BILLBKLYN* on Wed Sep 24 21:47:39 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Sep 24 18:18:14 2025.* The RR used them in the 80s for the NassaubStreet Banker's special.
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by sloth* on Thu Sep 25 00:33:24 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Sep 24 21:47:39 2025.* Near the end they made an afternoon trip on the yellow B to Ditmars Blvd
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Q65A* on Thu Sep 25 08:57:18 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Sep 24 18:48:09 2025.* I rode the R16s regularly on the EE back in the day. I thought they looked good in the MTA's "Nordic Blue/Platinum Mist" livery. Those porthole windows in the storm doors were distinctive and (unlike the R30s) they had a mix of crosswise and longitudinal seats in dark grey. They were "vintage-looking" as compared to the R38s, R40s, R42s and R44s that also were running on QBL at that time. Relatively dim fluorescent lighting and lack of A/C did not endear them to us passengers but they got us where we needed to go.
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Catfish 44* on Thu Sep 25 13:50:10 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Q65A on Thu Sep 25 08:57:18 2025.* Yes I forgot about the seating arrangement. I like that and I would have liked the dim lights.
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Q65A* on Thu Sep 25 16:23:04 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Sep 25 13:50:10 2025.* Those guys in Car Equipment kept them going all throughout the War Years.
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Thu Sep 25 18:21:45 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Q65A on Thu Sep 25 16:23:04 2025.* The R-16s arrived on the scene in 1955. They did last through the Vietnam War. The good folks at ENY Yard knew how to take care of them. Had the R-16s spent their entire careers on the Three Stooges Division, they might have held up better.
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Q65A* on Fri Sep 26 09:04:09 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Sep 25 18:21:45 2025.* True. Even with crazy levels of graffiti those cars still made service as proudly as they could. I also remember seeing them on what still was called "15" on the Jamaica Avenue line (eventually JJ then QJ). At that time in the late '60s, many of them were still painted in dark green but some were bright red like the R27s. The other thing I remember about the R16s was their sound. As they accelerated they made a slight whining sound; nothing like sounds of the R160s today. There were R9s still working on QBL at that time and their sounds were very noticeable (someone once commented that those old cars sounded like cows mooing when they pulled away from a stop).
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars
Posted by Bill from Maspeth* on Fri Sep 26 12:26:54 2025, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: R-16 Cars, posted by Q65A on Fri Sep 26 09:04:09 2025.* The whining sound you heard on the R16's were probably many of the GE cars. Many of the GE R17's also made the same sound.
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