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| R-211 (1605107) | |
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| (1605107) | |
R-211 |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jun 23 13:58:44 2022 any updates?Are they being built? Willl the one set delivered last year be put into passenger service soon? Thank you. |
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| (1605135) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 23 18:39:08 2022, in response to R-211, posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jun 23 13:58:44 2022. The cars are doing "burn in" tests right now.Filled with passenger simulation equipment. However, I haven't seen it lately, which might mean they are preparing it for service on the A line. The 211T cars are built,awaiting shipment to the system. The outline according to the MTA says delivery was supposed to be JUNE of 2022 for the 211T articulate cars,September 2022 for base order delivery of the 211A. The SIR cars are scheduled for next year. So,any day now..if nothing changes, the new cars should be put in service. Of course, everything can change at the drop of a dime,since the whole 211 program is Years late. It's a wait and see thing right now. |
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| (1605151) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 23 20:29:07 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 23 18:39:08 2022. Are the SIR cars to be link-barred or coupled like PATH cars ? |
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| (1605170) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu Jun 23 22:37:17 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 23 20:29:07 2022. LOL |
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| (1605174) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 23 23:25:22 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 23 18:39:08 2022. I would imagine they would have to qualify A line crews (assuming they do their 30 day test on the A) on the R211 before it makes its revenue service debut. |
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| (1605212) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jun 24 11:01:55 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 23 18:39:08 2022. thank you |
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| (1605235) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 24 14:49:56 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 23 23:25:22 2022. Well, Yes.That was part of the process,I was told. My cousin is a operator,and he said his time is coming very soon for training. The MTA wants these cars in service quickly because of the CBTC program along 8th Avenue. A another two years will complete the instillation, and they want enough cars to test properly. Not to mention the ADA CAPABILITIES,the new cars will actually be a good thing for the A,C,and later E lines. When all is said and done,the R46 will be a memory, just like all the older cars before them. 940 will completely replace the 46s with five hundred more for service improvement. The next up to go is the R68s.. Due to be replaced around 2025..the TA could get a jump on this with a third option order of 500 cars. Even though the eastern division is full of NTT cars,the M and L lines are CBTC routes now,and could use the upgrade. The J has 179s,also equiped with CBTC,but can use the new cars because of the ADA additions and wider doors. The South will need to be completely required replacement cars since it's fully 75footers now. Since 6th Ave is next to get CBTC,and because of the potential reroutes along 8th avenue,the Concourse line will see new rolling stock in the coming years.B and D trains will receive whatever is left over from the swaps,And New cars. Might be tough on the Concourse people and crews,since they had the 68s since the early 80s..almost fourty years. The 211T cars are the most "looked forward to cars" ever,since they will bring new technology into the system. Articulated rail cars aren't new to the system,but they haven't operated on TA tracks since the R32 cars arrived in 1964. This new cars will increase passenger comfort by allowing better movement inside the cars, allowing more riders more space. 600 plus railcars are you be delivered,plus 400 plus more with the second option. It's likely,that these cars will go directly to the Queens Blvd lines,with the spillovers going to the southern division lines. The face of the subway system is about to change again, after the 160s replaced half the rolling stock on the B division. The new cars will almost completely replace all the remaining cars built during the 70s and 80s. Summer is here |
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| (1605237) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 24 14:57:02 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 23 23:25:22 2022. Well, Yes.That was part of the process,I was told. The MTA wants these cars in service quickly because of the CBTC program along 8th Avenue. Another two years will complete the instillation, and they want enough cars to test the program properly. With improved ADA CAPABILITIES,the new cars will actually be a good thing for the A,C,and later E lines. When all is said and done,the R46 will be a memory. 940 will completely replace the 46s with five hundred more for service improvement. The next up to go is the R68s.. Due to be replaced around 2025..the TA could get a jump on this with a third option order of 500 cars. Even though the eastern division is full of NTT cars,the M and L lines are CBTC routes now,and could use the upgrade. The J has 179s,also equiped with CBTC,but can use the new cars because of the ADA additions and wider doors. Since 6th Ave is next to get CBTC,and because of the potential reroutes along 8th avenue,the Concourse line will see new rolling stock in the coming years. B and D trains will receive whatever is left over from the swaps,and New cars from the 211 contract. Might be tough on the Concourse people and crews,since they had the 68s since the early 80s..almost fourty years. The 211T cars are the most "looked forward to cars" ever,since they will bring new technology into the system. Articulated rail cars aren't new to the system,but they haven't operated on TA tracks since the R32 cars arrived in 1964. This new cars will increase passenger comfort by allowing better movement inside the cars, allowing more riders more space. 600 plus railcars are to be delivered,plus 400 plus more with the second option. It's likely,that most of these cars will go directly to the Queens Blvd lines,with the spillovers going to the southern division lines. The face of the subway system is about to change again, after the 160s replaced half the rolling stock on the B division. The new cars will almost completely replace all the remaining cars built during the 70s and 80s. Summer is here |
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| (1605245) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by zac on Fri Jun 24 16:33:17 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 24 14:57:02 2022. I don't understand why they would put these on QB since they are already entirely NTT. If they want the entire original IND to be CBTC why not just put the cars on the ABCD? The 68s can go to CI to replace the 46s, and maybe some of the 179s from the A/C too if they want a consistent fleet on those lines. My guess though is they want the 46s gone ASAP and don't want to move the R68s from Concourse for the very reason you state until absolutely necessary. |
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| (1605250) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Jun 24 17:06:22 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by zac on Fri Jun 24 16:33:17 2022. The R211 have larger doors than the older NTT. I guess the TA wanted R211 on the E & F lines cause those lines have high ridership and would help with passenger flow in and out of the cars.I wouldn't be surprised if due to lower ridership cause of the pandemic Jamaica yard just simply keep the NTT they already have and the R211 go elsewhere. |
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| (1605251) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jun 24 17:29:20 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 23 20:29:07 2022. They're going to be link-barred according to Section 4.3.2.11 (Page 4-6) procurement. Looks like they'll still be easy to uncouple though that being said. |
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| (1605253) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 24 18:11:01 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jun 24 11:01:55 2022. You are welcome. |
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| (1605263) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 24 20:53:31 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Jun 24 17:06:22 2022. Yeah, that Could potentially be a solution.But the additional benefits the 211 cars would provide wouldn't cancel out some from going there...especially the 211Ts. |
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| (1605347) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jun 26 19:57:38 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 24 14:49:56 2022. The open gangway cars will not be articulated, but merely have connecting passageways. |
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| (1605348) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jun 26 20:04:29 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 24 14:57:02 2022. I still think that the R-46s will outlast the 68s due to the more advanced amenities they received during GOH. For one thing they have electronic side signs so that can be used on lines like the B m N and W where sign changing is often required. They also have OB drawheads instead of H drawheads so they don't need adaptors in the event they have to be coupled iron to iron to a disabled NTT. |
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| (1605350) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jun 26 20:18:36 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by randyo on Sun Jun 26 20:04:29 2022. Maybe it will be a mixture, which cars give them the most trouble, out they go that month. |
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| (1605360) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by gbs on Sun Jun 26 22:53:37 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by randyo on Sun Jun 26 20:04:29 2022. Sad to say but the R46s are looking tired, worn, and dated. The electric side signs are so unreliable and inconsistent that they can't really be called an advanced amenity any longer. When cars in the same linked unit display different destinations it's not the crew's fault. They were quite beautiful when new, and because of a few intelligent tweaks to the R44 designs, were much better than the R44s.  
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| (1605364) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jun 26 23:38:57 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by gbs on Sun Jun 26 22:53:37 2022. Agreed. |
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| (1605366) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 27 00:13:52 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by gbs on Sun Jun 26 22:53:37 2022. The R-46's current MDBF is at 53,000 miles. The R-179's now have the second best MDBF on the B division, at 244,000 in April 2022. The R-160's are currently at 277,000.The best on the A Division are the R-142's at 237.000, and none of the other classes are above 200,000 miles MDBF. The typical average MDBF overall is 144.000 as of April 2022. -William A. Padron ["They went that away!"] |
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| (1605373) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 27 08:13:48 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by William A. Padron on Mon Jun 27 00:13:52 2022. I still remember their analog speedometers. |
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| (1605377) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jun 27 09:43:56 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by gbs on Sun Jun 26 22:53:37 2022. Is the side sign issue only on the cars that have not had SMS yet?You can usually tell if the light fixtures are clean and the car is bright. Because while undergoing SMS the cars are unlinked......the time to troubleshoot why the signage code does not agree trainline. |
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| (1605380) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 27 10:55:46 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by gbs on Sun Jun 26 22:53:37 2022. Did the 46s ever have those panels separating the seats-next-to-doorways from the doorways themselves? I liked that aspect of the 44s. |
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| (1605383) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by The Silence on Mon Jun 27 12:58:41 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 23 18:39:08 2022. one of the sets was in the barn at Pitken a week ago Friday, I did not see where the other half was parked. earlier that week the whole train had been at CI for instructor training. |
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| (1605385) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by The Silence on Mon Jun 27 13:05:09 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by randyo on Sun Jun 26 20:04:29 2022. the only thing about the 46s that are better than the 68s, in my opinion, as a conductor in school car:I have fewer doors to unlock in the event I need to walk through the train. I am not allowed to use the trainline door unlock switch unless I'm getting people off a disabled train and I have walked all the way to the rear car. I do not have a second cab to inspect in each car. |
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| (1605392) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Mon Jun 27 14:01:54 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 27 10:55:46 2022. yes they did.THey also had a frosted glass with a red fire icon on the side of one of the wall panels near the end of the car. They also had a small red glass or plastic covering of a chrome framedsafety switch at the top right of the end doors. YOu coudl theoreticlaly break this glass and there was a switch inside to open the doors in an emergency. And letsnot forget the blue stripe and racoon mask |
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| (1605393) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Mon Jun 27 14:03:08 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 27 10:55:46 2022. sorry inside that frosted glass was a fire extinguisher |
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| (1605414) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by gbs on Tue Jun 28 03:51:24 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 27 10:55:46 2022. Yes, but they were removed during the major overhaul (but kept on the R44s). Because the panels were clear, they're hard to see in this photo of car 513 from 1975, but you can see the black gaskets and square poles holding the panels in place.  Post overhaul, no panels:  Compare R44 car 110 from 1971:  Post overhaul, still with panels: 
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| (1605415) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Jun 28 07:19:36 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by gbs on Tue Jun 28 03:51:24 2022. Thanks for all of that. . .I wonder what the reason was for getting rid of the panels. |
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| (1605416) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 28 07:40:25 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 27 10:55:46 2022. For the record, they were called Wind Screen panels. They were omitted from the GOH contract in 1990. |
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| (1605417) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 28 07:44:15 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Jun 28 07:19:36 2022. Likely financial. When new, each R-46 cost less than $300,000 but when the contract was signed with M&K to overhaul the cars, each car cost $495,000 and that was before change orders. |
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| (1605444) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jun 28 16:14:57 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Jun 28 07:19:36 2022. Vandalism. Many of the panels were being broken although that was also the situation with the R-44s so I don’t understand the difference. |
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| (1605445) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jun 28 16:16:08 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by gbs on Sun Jun 26 22:53:37 2022. Despite the unreliability, that can be addressed during SMS. There is still the issue of the drawheads. |
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Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 28 16:54:04 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 28 16:14:57 2022. Different project managers during GOH is the answer. Also, the cost of the R-44 GOH was less so the windscreens were not a budget buster. |
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Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 28 16:57:42 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by gbs on Sun Jun 26 22:53:37 2022. Maintenance of the Luminator Side signs was given to the centralized electronics Dept. Before that shops had their own facilities and would troubleshoot down to the board level. At the same time, the CES began to repair inverters as the new tech cars came off warranty. Side signs became a low priority. |
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| (1605456) | |
Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jun 28 17:26:39 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 28 16:54:04 2022. I'm wondering why the LAHT belly band wasn't replaced on the NYCT R44s,but were replaced on the SIR versions.The SIR REBUILD was far more intensive,it seems. |
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Re: R-211 |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 28 22:20:34 2022, in response to Re: R-211, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jun 28 17:26:39 2022. At the time, I was doing acceptance and warranty on the R-46s. Wad not involved with the R-44s until 2005. |
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