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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 11 18:56:36 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 18:13:54 2021. Of course, even a major freight railroad isn't particularly concerned about speed. I don't know what the grade on the Manhattan Bridge or the Williamsburg Bridge is, but it certainly seems slow when one is in a hurry. It would seem worse if one were trying to make a plane. No doubt a subway train could make the grade-- eventually-- but it wouldn't be rapid transit. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 11 19:11:11 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 11 18:56:36 2021. For a mile or so, going 20 vs 35 MPH isn't going to make much difference. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 19:15:41 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 11 18:56:36 2021. Major freight railroads have grades that climb thousands of feet over many miles. We're talking about gaining 50 feet over the course of 2,000 feet. This is not a big deal. The #4 train gains 200 feet or so between 125th and Kingsbridge. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 19:17:04 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 11 19:11:11 2021. For a mile or so, going 20 vs 35 MPH isn't going to make much difference.You have an exaggerated estimate of how fast NYCT trains climb grades. More importantly, what about the downhills. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by TonyG on Sat Sep 11 19:26:26 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Ancient Mariner on Sat Sep 11 15:26:19 2021. This is the best solution, IMHO. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 19:35:25 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 19:15:41 2021. The #4 train gains 200 feet or so between 125th and Kingsbridge.Again, according to DeLorme's Topo North America 10.0, Jerome & Kingsbridge is 135 ft above sea level and the Harlem River at Lexington & 125th has a depth of 22 ft below sea level. There just might be an altitude change of almost 200 ft. The distance between the middle of the Harlem River and Jerome & Kingsbridge is approximately 4.6 miles or 24288 ft. That's an overall grade of 0.8%. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 19:42:37 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 11 18:56:36 2021. I don't know what the grade on the Manhattan Bridge or the Williamsburg Bridge is, but it certainly seems slow when one is in a hurry.All the East River bridges were designed for horse drawn traffic. A 5% grade was considered too steep. The War Department force the Brooklyn Bridge to be raised 5' above mean high tide, after construction started on the towers. It was J. Roebling's unwillingness to increase the BB's grade, that forced him to move the roadway into the bridge's lattice work. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 19:50:07 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 11 18:24:20 2021. The TA has 5% grades.Where and for what distance? Be specific. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 20:00:51 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 19:17:04 2021. You are buying into the exaggerated estimate of how much a 50 foot increase or decrease in elevation affects speed. How is this any different from the Sith-9th Street Bridge, except that less altitude gain is involved? |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 20:12:31 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 18:13:54 2021. There are plenty of Class 1 major freight railroads that have 2.2%*.I used the 1% as a measurement to gauge the difficulty of clearing Amtrak's approach to the Hell Gate Bridge. Even a 2.2% grade would gain 44 ft, over 2000 ft. The first 28 ft would be taken up by the gain in ground altitude. That would leave a net gain of 16 feet. The clearance from the road to the bottom of the el is 12'6", as shown in Google's Streetview. There is no such clearance sign for the Hell Gate approach. This means the bottom of the structure clears the roadway by at least 15'. This further reduces the net gain to 13'6". Take a look at the Amtrak structure. The altitude gain would have to clear the catenary. That's more than 20' above track level. There's also the trusswork below the tracks. That's much more than the height of the structure below track level on the Astoria Line. Unfortunately, the initial engineering judgement was correct. Branching out near the Astoria Blv station isn't feasible because of Amtrak clearance problems. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 20:15:26 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 19:35:25 2021. Hmm. This doesn't change your basic argument about the Bronx, but your reference material looks dubious to me. The USGS topo maps on topozone.com show that Jerome Ave crosses the 150' coutour just at Kingsbridge.Much more importantly, the map shows that Astoria Blvd crosses the 40 foot contour, not the 30 foot contour, immediately east of crossing the subway line. And furthermore, 31st street is dropping rapidly as it heads north. Not that much south of Astoria Blvd (a third of a long block south, in fact), it crosses the 50 foot contour. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 20:31:44 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 20:12:31 2021. See my other post for doubt as to how much altitude needs to be gained from the N/R/W. I see that the ground level just south of Astoria Blvd is hardly different from ground level at the Hell Gate crossing.Also, freights have 2.2% gradients. NYCT has higher gradients. The Manhattan Bridge is 135 feet above sea level according to Google. The portal at the northwest end of the bridge is just at the 30 foot contour and about 2000* feet from the center of the bridge. That's about a 5% gradient: 100 feet gain in 2000 feet. * Hard to tell exactly - maybe it's 2500 feet; 105/2500 = 4.2%. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by VictorM on Sat Sep 11 21:08:58 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 19:50:07 2021. Here's some information I downloaded some time ago from someone who seemed to know to know what they were talking about:tracks J1 and J2 on the willy b from station 73+45 to station 77+35 (390 ft) is at 5.5% that's the steepest track H2 on the manny b from station 287+35 to station 278+07 (928 ft) is at 5.4% grade. steinway tubes from station 88+94 to station 101+99 (1305 ft) is at 4.5% grade 60th street tubes from station 102+12 to station 109=97 (785 ft) is at 4.37% grade (this is also the steepest sustained grade in the system: 180 feet vertically over 4500 feet horizontally on the Queens bound track) NYC TRANSIT TRACK LOCATIONS WITH GRADES LARGER THAN 4.0%: • Manhattan Bridge (Brooklyn and Manhattan approaches), Manhattan Bridge and Brighton/6th Avenue Lines • Williamsburg Bridge: Manhattan approach, Jamaica Line • Steinway Tunnel, Flushing Line • 5th Avenue to Grand Central, Flushing Line • S/O 36th St. to the 5th Ave. Cut Portal, West End Line (Open cut portion of West End Line) • 38th St. Yard Viaduct Ramps West End Line (Open cut portion of West End Line) • 60th St. Tunnel, Astoria and 11th St. Cut Lines (connection to Queens Blvd. Lines) • South of Queensboro Plaza Upper Level to Astoria Line • South of Broad St. Jamaica /Nassau Cut Line (to the Montague Street BMT Tunnel to Downtown Brooklyn) • East N.Y. Yard Lead Jamaica Line • North of Eastern Parkway/Broadway Junction Jamaica Line • South of Chambers St. to North of Broadway-Nassau/Fulton St., 8th Avenue Line • Grant Ave. to 80-Hudson St. Liberty Ave. Line • North of South Ferry Loop, 7th Avenue Line (Westside IRT 1 train) The longest continuous upgrade in the system is the 4.23% grade from the deepest part of the Queens bound 60th St tunnel under the East River to the upper level of Queensboro Plaza - 180 feet vertically (the height of an 18 story building) and 4400 feet horizontally. The Queensboro Bridge is not aligned exactly parallel with the Manhattan street grid but angles slightly to the south heading towards Queens. However, the 60th street tunnel is aligned precisely with 60th street, so although the tunnel starts out alongside the bridge, by the time it reaches Queens it's about 130 feet north of the bridge. That's why there's that slight reverse curve which puts the tunnel back alongside the bridge at the switch to the 11th st cut just before the portal. There's also a third rail section gap at the switch. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Sat Sep 11 22:02:44 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Ancient Mariner on Sat Sep 11 15:26:19 2021. I like it, but who knows. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 11 23:09:52 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by VictorM on Sat Sep 11 21:08:58 2021. Thanks for posting that-- it's useful and interesting in this context. |
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Re: “Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain” |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 11 23:41:06 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by VictorM on Sat Sep 11 21:08:58 2021. Why does it say "larger" when "steeper" is meant? |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Sep 12 02:59:07 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 11 14:14:44 2021. If the NIMBYs around Ditmars got too persnickety about it then the MTA could simply route the Astoria Line along the GCP to the airport and demolish the Ditmars branch and station entirely. That should solve their complaints about noisy trains passing their houses and apartments. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Sep 12 03:55:41 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 16:48:08 2021. Exactly, such a project would be a huge and unnecessary waste of taxpayer money. Unless we’re talking about tunneling the SAS to The Bronx, SIR to Manhattan, or LIRR/NJT to Lower Manhattan, I don’t want any of my taxes going towards any new underwater rail tunnels. If the (N) over GCP really isn’t an option (which I doubt save for political folly), Plan B should be the (7) over the BQE to LGA, not a people mover that ends in some industrial area at a train yard. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Sep 12 04:08:49 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by randyo on Sun Sep 12 02:59:07 2021. If the GCP LGA extension were to ever be built I would abandon Ditmars station, partially out of pettiness, but mostly because there would probably be very little room if any to build a storage yard for the new extension, and the trackage to Ditmars would be more valuable as storage space than a revenue line at that point. During peak periods local trains could terminate at Astoria Boulevard and relay north of that station while express trains continue to LGA. Put-ins to LGA could also deadhead from Ditmars to Astoria and then reverse direction back to LGA if necessary. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Sep 12 04:15:45 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Sep 12 03:55:41 2021. Actually now that I think about it, if the community is against new elevated lines (which I understand TBH), Plan B could be branch of the Queens Boulevard line east of Northern Boulevard that tunnels under the BQE to LGA, with the (7) being Plan C. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 12 07:02:59 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by VictorM on Sat Sep 11 21:08:58 2021. 4 to 5% subway grades appear to be quite common and accepted, and built when subway cars had anywhere between 0 and 2 powered axles. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 12 07:03:55 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 19:17:04 2021. They go downhill with timer signals just as fast as they go uphill. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 12 07:04:49 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 20:00:51 2021. J train takes just as much time Manhattan bound and Brooklyn Bound over the Willie B. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Sep 12 09:16:10 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by randyo on Sun Sep 12 02:59:07 2021. Great point! |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 12 10:59:13 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by VictorM on Sat Sep 11 21:08:58 2021. Which amply demonstrates that there is no problem with an N-LGA peeling off at Astoria Blvd and climbing enough to go over the Hell Gate Bridge. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 12 17:12:09 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Sun Sep 12 10:59:13 2021. What would be involved if a LGA subway line were to cut under the Hell Gate line - could a Hell Gate Line overpass be constructed to accomodate it ? |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 12 19:30:15 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 12 17:12:09 2021. Then you'd have to raise the Hell Gate Line by 20-25 feet. As we have discussed, it's much easier to have steep grades on a subway than on a freight line.Also, then you'd have to somehow raise the Hell Gate Line without taking it out of service - far bigger bucks doing that. So just do the simplest - subway goes over railroad. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Sun Sep 12 20:48:32 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 12 17:12:09 2021. Why not have it tunnel under the North service road until east of the Hell Gate line? It could in fact be an underground line from Ditmars station until it cleared the Hell Gate line. The transfer from the subway would not be as convenient but it is just a two track line and does not take up a lot of ROW. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 12:36:03 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by randyo on Sun Sep 12 02:59:07 2021. That would be an even better solution: either accept the extension or accept the demolition. Unfortunately the noisy minority will choose the latter while everyone else will be ignored. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 13 12:53:01 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 12:36:03 2021. Better than demolition: Ditmars becomes a layup facility with no public access. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 14:46:35 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 12:36:03 2021. The 2017 Plan for Action suggested extended it to 21st Street/20th Avenue and then building a layover facility on Power Plant property. That scenario is the only way I'd keep revenue service running to Ditmars (and beyond) if the LGA line gets built. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 14:46:36 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 12:36:03 2021. The 2017 Plan for Action suggested extended it to 21st Street/20th Avenue and then building a layover facility on Power Plant property. That scenario is the only way I'd keep revenue service running to Ditmars (and beyond) if the LGA line gets built. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Sep 13 15:13:12 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 14:46:36 2021. Should Rikers actually close, it could potentially fit into long term plans. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 13 15:56:30 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by randyo on Sun Sep 12 02:59:07 2021. The problem with that is getting by that Amtrak/CSX Hellgate bridge approach that runs over the GCP. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 13 16:21:35 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 13 15:56:30 2021. We've just had a long subthread where we've established that with a 4% grade or so along Astoria Blvd from 31st Street there is absolutely no problem getting the subway over the Hell Gate Bridge. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 13 16:54:09 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Mon Sep 13 16:21:35 2021. Huh?? First of all, its about the Hell Gate Bridge approach over the GCP & not the bridge itself we're talking about. Now you want to re-route the BMT Astoria Line OVER that approach to get to LGA?? If I'm reading that right...theres o Effin way that will happen. Besides, Amtrak which owns the ROW there would never sign off on that idiotic idea. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 20:24:50 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 13 16:54:09 2021. Huh? Why would Amtrak have to sign off? |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 13 20:27:30 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 20:24:50 2021. IS this proposal crossing their bridge? |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 13 20:30:20 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 13 16:54:09 2021. I know what it is. I posted a Google Street View of the location.I agree that sending the subway over the approach bridge is highly unlikely to ever happen, but it's not infeasible. And of course, as SP says, who says Amtrak has the air rights over their approach? Obviously any overpass would need to clear the catenary. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Mon Sep 13 20:41:28 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 12 17:12:09 2021. There might be a way to squeeze a track next to or cantilevered over the GCP roadway at the same level as the parkway service road (Astoria Blvd.) . But then you’d have to immediately raise the tracks sharply up again to get over several local street overpasses. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 13 20:45:35 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Mon Sep 13 20:30:20 2021. "...who says Amtrak has the air rights over their approach?"I would say Amtrak does. After all, thats part of Amtrak's golden goose, the NEC. But this subthread is all moot. You'll see the second av subway go to Yonkers before they build a subway/Airtrain over their bridge. I mean during construction and maintenance of the line would incur some service suspension. Amtrak will "what if" it to death to contribute to the argument to prevent it. Just extend the Astoria El to the Airport from Ditmars & be done with it. Thats the cheapest & most practical was to serve the Airport. Screw the NIMBYS. They were overcome when building the Airtrain over the Van Wyck & overcome with the 3d track on the LIRR from New Hyde Park to Hicksville. They are noisy, but their not a brick wall. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 21:12:16 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 13 20:45:35 2021. That is a battle that Amtrak would lose, not only in judicial court, but also the court of public opinion.Just extend the Astoria El to the Airport from Ditmars & be done with it. Thats the cheapest & most practical was to serve the Airport. Why condemn more private property than you need and unnecessarily blight a thriving residential thoroughfare with a noisy elevated line when you can build an AirTrain-style viaduct along the parkway that parallels that street just a block south? The line down GCP would also require less curvature since it's pretty much a straight shot to LGA from the RFK Bridge, and there's no way that a viaduct down the parkway median would be more expensive than a traditional el down Ditmars. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Sep 13 21:31:25 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by qveensboro_plaza on Sun Sep 12 20:48:32 2021. Building a cantilevered viaduct down the median of the GCP would be faster, cheaper, and less disruptive to the area construction-wise than a tunnel. Regardless, the Hell Gate line is going to be Plate C (max height 15' 6") territory for the foreseeable future, so I can't see why Amtrak would be so up in arms about building over it. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 22:17:55 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 13 20:27:30 2021. No, it’s crossing over. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 13 23:15:46 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 12 07:04:49 2021. That’s due to the grade time signals. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Sep 14 07:28:57 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 13 22:17:55 2021. Thats what I meant. |
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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'' |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 14 08:52:37 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 13 20:45:35 2021. But this subthread is all moot.Of course it's a fantasy. And 99% of SubChat fantasies remain that. But you can't be 100% sure. There's always the M to 6th Avenue and the New Haven Line to the East Bronx and Penn Station. |
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