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| Re: R1s-9s (1568153) | |
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Re: R1s-9s |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 11 18:28:22 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 11 18:18:27 2021. The R44 hit 83MPH on the LIRR. |
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Re: R1s-9s |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 11 18:29:53 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 11 18:22:43 2021. Richmond Hill chiropractors probably approved of them. |
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Re: R1s-9s |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 11 18:45:45 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by William A. Padron on Thu Feb 11 10:09:53 2021. I seem to recall seeing R-7/9s with “JJ” stick ons well before the date you mentioned. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: R1s-9s |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 11 18:47:39 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by William A. Padron on Thu Feb 11 09:12:40 2021. The R-11s were rebuilt into R-34s a few years before Chrystie. |
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Re: R1s-9s |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 11 18:49:17 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Feb 11 12:48:43 2021. I agree. I think most passengers prefer cross seating to all side seating. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 11 18:57:49 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 11 10:00:45 2021. The C/Rs especially regarded them as a step backward since the steels and the Multis all had inside door controls as opposed to the caps and triggers of the R-1/9s. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Feb 11 19:13:14 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 11 18:28:22 2021. I think it was 87 and then 77 with motors cut off to simulate a loaded car. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Feb 11 19:18:33 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 11 18:49:17 2021. Thank you |
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Posted by murray1575 on Thu Feb 11 19:18:58 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 11 18:24:11 2021. I rode them on the Lousy Local my last year at Stuyvesant. They ran well enough and were more reliable than the Standards they replaced. However it seemed like they didn't belong there. |
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Posted by murray1575 on Thu Feb 11 19:25:17 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Feb 11 12:47:21 2021. I agree that the R46 turned out to be a very good car after the Rockwell truck fiasco was corrected and they went through GOH. They are quieter than the R160s and ride well. The transverse/longitudinal seating arrangement is better than the 60' cars too. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Feb 11 19:54:13 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by murray1575 on Thu Feb 11 19:25:17 2021. They certainly belong on certain lines especially lines with nice express runs. All those things you mentioned are why I call them Cadillacs. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 12 04:53:48 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by murray1575 on Thu Feb 11 19:25:17 2021. Their compressors sound like the ones used on the freezers at Walmart.:) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 12 04:56:22 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by murray1575 on Thu Feb 11 19:18:58 2021. Back then, I didn't care for the BMT standards. I'd gotten used to seeing route and destination signs up front and those cars didn't have them. I was more than happy to bail at Union Square on Saturday afternoons for a nice, brisk express sprint up Broadway on, as I put it, a BMT train with letters up front. |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri Feb 12 06:45:07 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by murray1575 on Thu Feb 11 19:18:58 2021. If anyone believed that the IND R-1/9's did not belong on the BMT, at least on the Eastern Division, this image may give any one such a thought...R-1/R-9 Series, Marcy Avenue, BMT Nassau Street-Jamaica Line, April 1969. Notes: One can only wonder if the engineers who designed the IND subway ever expected to see one of their R units next to a one-time BRT el platform...  -William A. Padron ["Marcy"] |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri Feb 12 06:54:59 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Asgard on Thu Feb 11 16:48:18 2021. The car number plate changes (or "swaps") had occurred between many of the R-1 to R-9 series fleet. They are numerous to mention here, but one example is that R-4 car #825 was renumbered as #1677 (an R-9 number). This car is at the Trolley Museum of New York in Kingston.-William A. Padron ["a.c.f."] |
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Re: R1s-9s |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri Feb 12 07:04:51 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Feb 11 15:10:30 2021. Yeah, the BMT AB's were probably not in service on the "GG" at all. I am sure during that year of 1965, when that image was taken, R-1/9's were still being seen on the Queens Boulevard line anyway, but R-27/30's also had shared the local trackage (as "RR" trains) as well.-William A. Padron ["QT"] |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 12 08:17:29 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by William A. Padron on Fri Feb 12 07:04:51 2021. In 1955, the Standards had to run to Forest Hills, so someone in the TA must have demanded some IND signs be added just in case they needed an emergency put in.I wonder if an R27 ever ran on a GG prior to Chrystie ? |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri Feb 12 09:33:26 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 12 08:17:29 2021. Well, I did some research, and only these related items came up from a three-volume set of NYC subway history books published during the 1970's.During December 1957, during a labor dispute ("wildcat strike"), special BMT trains operated between Jamaica-179th Street and Whitehall Street via the 11th Street Cut (60th Street Tunnel). Certain tests were being done on various lines. It was reported that BMT AB's were being operated on the IND "F" line in 1958, as some R-16 cars went over to the Brighton Line that same year. As for R-27/30's operating on the "GG"? No documentation exists if that ever happened, although there is one photo from 1966 showing an R-16 operating on the "GG" that was published in a new subway book authored by Matt Herson. -William A. Padron ["71st Ave"] |
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Re: R1s-9s |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 12 17:21:30 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 12 04:56:22 2021. You should have been riding the IRT in the early 1950s. With the exception of the 1939 World’s Fair cars none of the IRT prewar cars had any end destination or route signs so passengers had to learn the marker lights to determine what train they were boarding. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 12 17:29:11 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by William A. Padron on Fri Feb 12 06:45:07 2021. At the time the R-1s were being designed, Hylan was out of office and the city had approached the BMT about operating the new lines under construction. Had the BMT accepted the offer, the R-1s through 9s would probably have been running on BMT lines long before they actually were. Of course a merger of what became IND lines and existing BMT lines back them would have been different from the way it was eventually done. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 12 17:36:17 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 12 08:17:29 2021. The problem with that is that prior to Chrystie, IND crews were not qualified to operate any prewar BMT equipment. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 12 20:17:15 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 12 17:21:30 2021. True. That's one thing I never paid any attention to, much to my regret - marker lights. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 12 20:18:33 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by William A. Padron on Fri Feb 12 06:54:59 2021. 401 was disguised as 491 when it served as a schoolcar. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 12 20:19:50 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 12 17:36:17 2021. Yeah, the controller and brake stands were flipflopped.:) |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 13 01:36:30 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 12 20:17:15 2021. Well, I was a towerman. I had to know them. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 13 01:40:03 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 12 20:19:50 2021. That was the least of it. Even though they were much older, the BMT steels were much more advanced that the R-1s through 9s. They had tripcocks that could be rest from the cab, running lights that changed from red to white when the reverser was thrown and a door interlock to prevent power from being applied when the doors were open, none of which any of the prewar R types had. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Feb 13 08:14:05 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 12 17:21:30 2021. I remember that the 2 was Red/White. I think the 6 was White/White, but not 100% sure about that. I seem to remember a line that was Green/White, but I don't recall the route (maybe the 4). The others I have no clue. Now this was in the era when all the cars had destination signs, but it was just something I noticed. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 13 08:21:42 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 13 01:36:30 2021. Point taken.:) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 13 08:23:58 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 13 01:40:03 2021. The BMT standards were state-of-the-art for their time. IINM the city would have had to pay royalties to the BMT if they were to incorporate any of those features into the R-1/9s."I don't think so, Tim." |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Feb 13 15:18:31 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 13 01:40:03 2021. So the Arinines can operate even if they don't have indication? |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sat Feb 13 18:21:04 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 12 04:56:22 2021. The end signs weren't needed on the LL since it didn't share tracks with anything else and all trains simply made all stops. |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Feb 13 19:10:19 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by murray1575 on Sat Feb 13 18:21:04 2021. THEY SHARED TRACKS WITH THE JAMAICA EL GOING INTO LOWER MANHATTAN. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 13 19:50:49 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Feb 13 19:10:19 2021. Pops is right. Canarsie and Jamaica Standards shared the Broadway-Brooklyn el to Manhattan from 1917-1928. |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Sat Feb 13 21:40:43 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 11 10:34:37 2021. I remember the oldies on the D around 1969. It was interesting looking out the front when there were no sealed beam headlights. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 14 09:43:07 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by jimmymc25 on Sat Feb 13 21:40:43 2021. That was the coolest thing. The only lighting was provided by tunnel lights and those I-beams between the tracks were reduced to silhouettes. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Feb 14 09:50:13 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 14 09:43:07 2021. That must have been so much fun to ride! |
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Posted by jabrams on Sun Feb 14 16:26:10 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 13 19:50:49 2021. From the 1950's, I was still a child and when I went on the subway with my grandfather, (BMT Standards)he would look down on the Jamaica line at B'way Junction at the marker lights to know if it was a Broadway Brooklyn local. Also in the early 60's the short run LL Myrtle Ave. trains had different marker lights than the Canarsie trains.When did the TA assign double letters to the Eastern Division (LL's), from the #16 which would have been displayed on the R1-9's or higher, but they did not run on the Canarsie line until the late 1960's. When Chrystie Street opened the double letter for locals was removed. |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sun Feb 14 18:12:13 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by jabrams on Sun Feb 14 16:26:10 2021. The double letter for locals actually continued until 1985. Letters were assigned to BMT lines when the R27 cars were introduced around 1960 anticipating the unification that took place in 1967. Even the Myrtle Ave. line which didn't have end signs on its Q cars was assigned the letters MJ. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 14 22:42:09 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Feb 13 08:14:05 2021. Sometime in the mid 1970s if I recall, the TA embarked on a project to make the marker lights a bit more logical. At that time, trains originating at different terminals carried the same markers different markers even though they were going TO the same place. For example a 1 train going to So/Fy would carry double red from Vc but white/red when originating at 137 St. Of course trains returning to those locations needed different markers. A trains going to Lefferts carried, double red and A trains going to far Rock carried green/red and those same trains carried the same markers N/B even though they were both going to 207 St. The TA decided and rightly so that trains going TO the same terminal should carry the same markers regardless of where they originated. Another change was that for years light trains, wrk trains and other specials displayed yellow/yellow markers. After the changes, all work trains layups or other special trains were to carry red/red which of course now meant that certain lines like the A which carried red/red markers for years even back when it terminated at Chambers St in 1932 would have to be assigned a new set of markers. The only exception was that shuttles would carry red/red markers at all times. Of course, the whole system became moot a few years later when due the the large number of cars being delivered with no marker lights at all the TA decided to do away with marker lights all together and require that on cars that still were equipped with marker lights red/red was to be dieplayed |
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Re: R1s-9s |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 14 22:48:29 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Feb 13 15:18:31 2021. Correct. Actually the steels and the SMEES can also, provided the bypass button is used. On the BMT prewar cars, the bypass button was called the “door control cutout” or simply the “door control” button by the crews, the same terminology used by the CTA according to one of their instruction books I read. On the bMNT equipment also, the door control (bypass) button had a wire seal on it that had to be broken in the event that it had to be used. In that case, car equipment personnel would have to be notified at the first opportunity that the train was operating on C/R’s buzzer signals so that corrective measured could be taken when the train arrived at the terminal. After repairs were made the button was again sealed. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Feb 14 22:55:26 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 14 22:42:09 2021. it does kind of make sense to have different markers for trains originating from different terminals. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 14 23:06:13 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Feb 14 22:55:26 2021. Not really. A Tw/O couldn't cars less where the train came from as long as it can be routed TO the proper line and/or terminal. |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Feb 14 23:09:37 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 11 18:15:42 2021. I remember seeing these, maybe photographed one during the spring 1968. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 14 23:11:52 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by murray1575 on Sat Feb 13 18:21:04 2021. However, in rush hours alternate trains terminated at Myrtle/Wyckoff, and there were a couple of AM layups that terminated at Atlantic Ave. Canarsie trains carried red/red, Myrtle short lines carried green/green and the Atlantic drop outs carried green/red. Interestingly, the green/green duplicated the Jamaica Line and the red/green duplicated Myrtle/Chambers, since the 2 lines never intersected, there was no problem. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 14 23:17:26 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Feb 14 09:50:13 2021. That was what it was like when I first started railfanning. For some reason the 3 systems in NY along with the H&M and the Boston transit system believed that tunnel lighting was sufficient for the M/M to operate safely and for years never installed any sort of headlights on their equipment. I suspect that the only reason the early H&M Newark cars (MP38s) and the K cars had headlights was to comply with ICC (pre FRA) rules and also because they shared the ROW with the PRR west of Journal Sq. |
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Re: R1s-9s |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Feb 14 23:33:45 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 14 22:48:29 2021. Wow- didn't know that about the Arnines. I did know the safety system can be overridden in newer cars.I also like the BMT concept of sealing the override button, so that its use can't be disguised. Did the BoT and TA keep replacing any broken seals after unification? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Feb 14 23:40:06 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 13 19:50:49 2021. Also some rush hour JJ trains switched over to the Canarsie line at Broadway Junction. I'm sure immediately prior to the JJ, some other BMT service did the same. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Feb 14 23:41:36 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 14 22:42:09 2021. I remember the Sea Beach was yellow yellow. The West End was white white. The 4th Avenue Local was green green. |
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Re: R1s-9s |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Feb 14 23:46:57 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Feb 14 23:41:36 2021. I never knew any of the |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Feb 15 00:15:30 2021, in response to Re: R1s-9s, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Feb 14 23:46:57 2021. I love the IRT New Lots line. I think it's an underrated section for railfanning. |
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