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NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Dec 2 17:26:45 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/nyregion/subway-ridership-mta.html


Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

By Christina Goldbaum

Dec. 2, 2020, 4:47 p.m. ET

Just after sunrise at a subway station in Woodhaven, Queens, the rhythm of riders pouring onto the platform echoed life before the pandemic. In the 10 minutes between trains, the crowd swelled until riders lined the platform and filed into an arriving subway car, snatching the few remaining seats.

Though not quite as bustling as last year, stations like this one and others in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx are experiencing a surge as people who work in retail and service industries return to their jobs in person and join the ranks of essential workers riding the subway.

Even as stations in Manhattan that were once the busiest in the city remain eerily quiet — with as few as one-fifth of typical passenger levels — ridership at some stops in the other boroughs has surpassed 50 percent of pre-pandemic levels. The spike has breathed life back into a system that was drained of nearly all its riders when the pandemic hit in the spring.

It has also provided a little bit of a financial boost to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the subway and is facing its worst budget crisis because of the outbreak.

Still, the widening ridership gulf between wealthier Manhattan neighborhoods and lower-income areas illuminates one of the enduring disparities of the outbreak: Many people with white-collar jobs can still work from home while lower-wage workers, who tend to be people of color with long commutes, are venturing to jobs daily even as the virus resurges.

“Everyone is practically sitting on top of each other now and virus cases are spiking,” said Adela Rivera, 45, who works in accounting for a cleaning services company in Lower Manhattan and takes the J train at the 85th Street-Forest Parkway station in Queens. “It all adds to the anxiety for sure.”

Her station — 85th Street-Forest Parkway — is one of a handful in Woodhaven, a middle-class neighborhood home primarily to immigrants from Latin American and Asia, that has experienced a revival.

Ridership at the station plunged to roughly 14 percent of usual in April, as people who work as clerks, waiters, housekeepers and kitchen staff stayed home after the pandemic lockdown shut down stores and limited restaurants to takeout and delivery.

But as the city slowly reopened, they had to go back to work. As one of the most public transit-dependent neighborhoods in the city, they turned to the subway and buses to travel. By October, around 50 percent of the station’s usual commuters had resumed riding the subway, according to an analysis of transit data by Qri, an open source data company.

“When I started commuting again in July, at least it was a bit emptier, there were spaces between people on the train,” Ms. Rivera said as she waited on the platform, the warm sunlight filtering through the windows of a train as it roared past. “Just look — it’s not like that anymore.”

The small station serves a fraction of the riders of the subway’s hubs in Manhattan: 85th Street-Forest Parkway station handled an average of 89,000 people a month last year, compared with a monthly average of 5.6 million riders who traveled through Times Square-42nd Street.

But with ridership at Times Square and other major hubs like 34 Street-Herald Square and Grand Central hovering at just 20 percent of normal times, the surge of riders across many smaller stations has helped push overall ridership to about 30 percent of usual.

In Queens, more than half of stations have seen ridership return to over 40 percent of usual — more than any other borough. At Junction Boulevard on the No. 7 line and the 111th Street station on the J line, ridership has returned from lows around 10 percent of normal in April to over 55 percent in October.

“At the beginning of all of this back in March, we saw that the folks who were continuing to use the system were essential workers,” said Sarah Feinberg, interim president of New York City Transit, which runs the city’s subway and buses. “Today it continues to be those essential workers and folks with the longest commutes who come into work every day because they cannot do their jobs from home.”

The return of rush hour crowds to many parts of the system is a stark turnabout from the height of the pandemic, when the subway’s usual 5.5 million weekday riders had practically vanished.

In Manhattan, where the median household income is the highest of any of the five boroughs, monthly ridership was around 7 percent of usual in April, according to the QRI analysis. By comparison, the Bronx — where many transit-dependent essential workers live — roughly 20 percent of the usual ridership was still using the system.

In the months since, the system’s revival has been similarly skewed: Ridership has returned to about 40 percent of normal in Brooklyn and 45 percent in the Bronx. In Manhattan, ridership is still just 25 percent of what it was before the outbreak.

Many of those low-wage workers who are sustaining the subway will likely bear the brunt of the service cuts and fare increases that officials are weighing as the transit agency faces the worst financial crisis in its history.

“The question that the federal government and state have to wrestle with right now is what do we owe those essential workers?” said Nick Sifuentes, the executive director of Tri-State Transportation Campaign, an advocacy group. “Will their commutes to essential jobs get even longer and more unreliable?”

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the city’s subway and buses, has warned of doomsday cuts like reducing subway service by 40 percent and steep fare increases to make up a $15.9 billion shortfall through 2024.

Transit officials have lobbied Washington for $12 billion in federal aid, but after stimulus negotiations sputtered this fall, the agency pinned the future of the system on the outcome of the presidential election.

Even with President-elect Joseph R. Biden’s victory, if Republicans are able to retain control of the Senate, they will likely resist the much bigger rescue package House Democrats have been pushing.

“The outlook is certainly better than we would have gotten with a second Trump administration,” said Nicole Gelinas, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a conservative research group. “But it’s by no means a guarantee that the M.T.A. will get the full rescue package, the whole $12 billion that it’s asking for.”

For most riders still using the system — many of whom are only just finding their footing after being laid off this spring — higher fares and less reliable service that delays their already long commutes would be a severe hardship.

“I spend three hours commuting on the train every day,” said Angela Kerjah, 57. “And I’m already rushing back to my three little kids at home. If it takes even longer to get home, will I get to see them every night? I don’t know.”

Ms. Kerjah and her friend, Geeta Coyoc, 35, huddled under the small overhang protecting the Woodhaven platform from light rain as they waited for a J train. Both women work as housekeepers for families in Brooklyn and were told by their employers to stay home for four months this spring. But in July, they were called back to work and with trepidation returned to the train.

“I think I was more worried to go back out in July than I was before the lockdown,” said Ms. Coyoc. “After being home and looking at the news on a daily basis and seeing so many deaths, that’s got me scared.”

Since then both women say their concerns about commuting have been allayed after a scientific consensus emerged that the risk of coronavirus transmission on the subway was not as high as many assumed at the start of the pandemic, as long as riders wear masks and crowding remains minimal.

But with coronavirus cases climbing yet again in New York, threatening another shutdown, many riders have renewed concerns about their safety on trains, where they have less control over their surroundings and the safety precautions others are taking.

“At work we are distanced, I’m never really close to anyone,” said Walter Fernandez, 26, who works as a cleaner in an office building in Brooklyn and was sent home at the height of the pandemic. “But here all of the seats are full, you’re right up against everyone and people aren’t always wearing masks.”

Earlier this summer he was called back to work, but decided against returning for fear of bringing the virus home to his mother, who lives with him in Woodhaven. But in August, with cases falling in the city, she returned to her work as a housekeeper and he returned to the office he cleans.

As cases creep up, so has Mr. Fernandez’s anxiety. “I don’t even want to think about it,” he said.

Ten minutes down the J line, Sayda Ighmor, 35, sat on a wooden bench at 111th Street Station on her way to work as a home health aide. Every morning Ms. Ighmor takes the train five stops and then gets on the Q54 bus to get to work, which is the most nerve-racking part of her day.

“It’s so crowded on the buses — even more than the train — and some people still don’t wear masks,” she said.

Every afternoon when she arrives home, she carefully places her shoes beside the door, strips off her work clothes and jumps in the shower.

Ms. Ighmor opted to keep her two children home to do remote schooling this fall because it felt safer. But both she and her husband, who works in food delivery, have continued to work throughout the pandemic.

“You have to go to work,” she said. “You have to pay your bills. What should I do?”

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by italianstallion on Wed Dec 2 17:43:02 2020, in response to NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Dec 2 17:26:45 2020.

Workers gotta work.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Peter Rosa on Wed Dec 2 18:51:53 2020, in response to NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Dec 2 17:26:45 2020.

Unfortunately, the recovery of outer-borough subway ridership doesn't help commuter rail, which of course is designed mainly to bring office workers into Manhattan.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Dec 3 09:59:13 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Peter Rosa on Wed Dec 2 18:51:53 2020.

A lot of this will have to do with the nature and purpose of cities looking ahead. I think there will always be "centers of activity" but will those centers involve lots of people, or just a few people overseeing lots of machines?

If people congregate in cities in any way at all, I would suspect that there would be some kind of "draw" for people on the outskirts to want to come in and be a part of it, and that would be regional rail's place. But it's uncertain at best.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Dec 3 10:19:51 2020, in response to NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Dec 2 17:26:45 2020.

I got it from the Washington Post, but it's credited with Bloomberg online. Go figure.
Working from home must be an "only in New York" thing.
-----------

Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices outfitted with new pandemic protocols meant to keep them healthy and safe. But temperature checks and plexiglass barriers between desks can't prevent one of the most dangerous workplace behaviors for the spread of Covid-19 — the irresistible desire to mingle.

“If you have people coming into the office, it’s very rare for them consistently to be six feet apart,” said Kanav Dhir, the head of product at VergeSense, a company that has 30,000 object-recognition sensors deployed in office buildings around the world tracking worker whereabouts.




Since the worldwide coronavirus outbreak, the company has found that 60% of interactions among North American workers violate the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s six-foot distancing guidelines, as do an even higher share in Asia, where offices usually are smaller.

Most people who can work at home still are and likely will be until at least mid-2021. But as some white-collar workers begin a cautious return — executive recruiter Korn Ferry found about 20% of employees expected to be back in offices after the U.S. Labor Day holiday — it’s becoming clear how hard it is to make the workplace safe. A bevy of sophisticated sensors and data are being used to develop detailed plans; even IBM’s vaunted Watson artificial intelligence is weighing in. In many cases the data can only verify what should be evident: The modern office, designed to pack in as many workers as possible, was never meant to enforce social distancing.

Bloomberg Which I recall over the summer announced they weren't going to be a real news agency anymore. Go figure.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Dec 3 10:39:20 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Dec 3 10:19:51 2020.

One thing I'd like to know is what percentage of workers have to return to the office in order to avoid major cuts to transit service.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:47:58 2020, in response to NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Dec 2 17:26:45 2020.

This article is indicative of why the media is held in such low regard. She's white, she wrote this from home and it'll be read by white people....at home. Everyone involved will pat themselves on the back for being so progressive.....while nothing gets done.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:50:04 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:47:58 2020.

Oh, and working class white folks who have to work? Well, they don't count.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:53:59 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by italianstallion on Wed Dec 2 17:43:02 2020.

Yeah, of all races.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Dec 3 10:54:47 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Dec 3 10:39:20 2020.

In Philadelphia they get the doomsday cut scenario everytime they want a fare hike or tax increase. For some agencies, probably a 300% increase over pre-covid or they won't be happen.
Seems to be a difficult metric in pracitice.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 3 11:21:58 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:47:58 2020.

I have no idea WTF you're talking about. Why is it bad to report on the fact that low income workers are getting back to work in person but high income workers are not?

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Dec 3 11:22:45 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 3 11:21:58 2020.

"getting back"? hahahahahahaahahaha

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Dec 3 11:26:22 2020, in response to NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Dec 2 17:26:45 2020.

I just saw your solution.

===

Deutsche Bank: Workers Should Pay 5% 'Privilege' Tax To Work From Home After Covid

As brightening vaccine prospects tease a return to pre-pandemic normalcy and employers map out when and how remote workers return to the office, analysts at Deutsche Bank are proposing a “privilege tax" on post-pandemic work from home to subsidize lost wages for low-income workers.

Deutsche argues that remote workers contribute less to the economy's infrastructure while still receiving its benefits, and says that a 5% tax on individuals levied against their wages on days they decide to work remotely would "leave them no worse off than if they had chosen to go into the office.”

As a basis for the argument, the bank says working from home is financially rewarding thanks to "direct financial savings" on expenses such as commuting, clothes and lunches, as well as indirect savings from things like reduced work-related socializing and laundry.


You can read the rest.
My comment to this is the same as the chants from BLM spokespeople. "burn it to the ground". Another 5% to keep everything rolling that no one wants to pack into like sardines and be late?
I love trains in the off peak and to do cool stuff. Not rush hour.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 3 12:27:55 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Dec 3 10:39:20 2020.

If 100% comes back next week, that does not compensate for the last 10 months, which can never be made up for.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Dec 3 12:46:40 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Dec 3 11:26:22 2020.

As a basis for the argument, the bank says working from home is financially rewarding thanks to "direct financial savings" on expenses such as commuting, clothes and lunches, as well as indirect savings from things like reduced work-related socializing and laundry.

Work-related socializing may cost workers money but it also provides significant psychological benefits. Humans are social creatures and need to interact with other people. This lack of daily interaction is a HUGE drawback of working from home.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Dec 3 12:47:53 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:47:58 2020.

This article is indicative of why the media is held in such low regard. She's white, she wrote this from home and it'll be read by white people....at home. Everyone involved will pat themselves on the back for being so progressive.....while nothing gets done.

And she's earning well into the six figures.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 3 14:19:35 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:50:04 2020.

This is why Democrats keep losing important elections.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 3 14:39:51 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:53:59 2020.

Who said otherwise?

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 3 14:41:31 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:47:58 2020.

She may have written this from home, but she was out there on the street interviewing.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 3 14:42:35 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Dec 3 12:47:53 2020.

You think young reporters make well into six figures? LOL.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 3 14:43:48 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:47:58 2020.

Why do you make everything about race?

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 3 14:48:06 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 3 14:43:48 2020.

To be fair, the article did mention race. But the fact the author is white is irrelevant.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 15:23:08 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 3 14:48:06 2020.

No it's not. It's directly related to why this article is crap.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 15:24:48 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Dec 3 12:46:40 2020.

Yep. During the lockdown I couldn't wait to get back to work.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 15:27:01 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 3 14:39:51 2020.



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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 15:27:02 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 3 14:39:51 2020.



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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Dec 3 15:29:24 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 3 14:42:35 2020.

You think young reporters make well into six figures? LOL.

At the NYT I'm sure they do.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 3 15:35:56 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 3 14:19:35 2020.

Unfortunately it doesn’t look like they lost the most important one!

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 15:38:33 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 3 15:35:56 2020.

They barely won against an utter moron.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Dec 3 17:43:16 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 10:47:58 2020.

That makes no sense.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 3 17:44:39 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 3 15:38:33 2020.

An utter moron with a spectacularly loyal following.

And I wouldn't call Biden's win "barely." This would have been called at 10 PM if the mail-in ballots had been pre-counted.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 3 18:04:33 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 3 17:44:39 2020.

And I wouldn't call Biden's win "barely."

Same electoral vote count as Trump in 2016, and a 6.8% higher popular vote margin.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 3 19:21:43 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 3 18:04:33 2020.

Trump called his 306 a landslide, yet lost the popular vote.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 3 19:22:21 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Dec 3 15:29:24 2020.

Not recent graduates.

With 15-20 years experience, yeah.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Dec 3 20:07:47 2020, in response to NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Dec 2 17:26:45 2020.

It lost me with the "people of color" comment. No need to needlessly interject race into everything

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 3 20:08:02 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Dec 3 10:19:51 2020.

One of the biggest issues is elevators in these big buildings with them being crowded, the stale air in the elevator shafts, the number of people in them per hour and all the people touching the buttons. A real petite dish. You can't realistically speaking take an elevator out of service every 10 minutes for cleaning.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 3 20:15:47 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 3 20:08:02 2020.

Petrie dish.

Damn spell check!

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 3 23:30:19 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Dec 3 20:07:47 2020.

The racist left alawys needs to do that.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 4 07:02:41 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 3 20:08:02 2020.

Merrill Lynch normally has 450 people in the Metlife(Pan Am) building. There have been 20 there since March to basically handle the teller window, scan or fax the snail-mail, and service the IT hardware. There are currently NO plans to have them return.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Dec 4 07:59:38 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 3 14:42:35 2020.

I have a friend who was an on-camera reporter for a TV station in Columbus, Georgia, the job he went to J-school for. Before getting hired there, he was a flight attendant for a legacy airline.

He went back to being a flight attendant after a year, because the TV news gig paid less than the airline did.

Those men and women on your TV screen are NOT rich, not even close, unless they're anchors.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Fri Dec 4 09:37:59 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 3 14:48:06 2020.

And they chose to use that mention to summarize the article on Twitter.



Provoking some not-unexpected responses:
  • "Theres a word for this. Privilege."

  • "You every day try with some racis newspaper article. Is that some agenda in NYT? I think it is."

  • "That's is because they decided to drop school or not pursuing a career with a higher level education. It has nothing to do with skin color.
    Its a matter of personal decision. So stop the victimhood."

  • "It doesn't mater what colour you are- you can't clean, cook or drive remotely. Or what would you suggest?"

  • "White liberals who never missed a paycheck and can work on Zoom in their pajamas love lockdowns."

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Dec 4 09:38:46 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 3 20:08:02 2020.

I saw an advertisement in the Wall Street Journal about a special elevator in New Jersey that solves that.

Actually, I think I saw some video in Europe.


China solved this problem back in March though. The local hospitals obviously haven't figured it out and don't bother where I am however (outside of the NE).

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Dec 4 09:43:29 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 3 20:08:02 2020.

We need people to get out of the static dying mindset that nothing can change because it was arbitrarily a certain way in 1980.

We have touchless elevators, every company came out with them.

This one uses QR Codes, which I know Spider-Pig has a tough time with:





There are tons of these in operation now. There are others as well of varying technologies.


There are solutions to everything other than laying down and playing dead. There was a time where elevators werne't invented yet.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Dec 4 09:44:26 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 4 07:02:41 2020.

When I get the chance, I'll drive and go downtown or check out the office parks. I've only seen one empty building, it's European, and they're being sold now to a Pittsburgh company. So we'll see if they continue to work from home after that is over.

But covid may go away long before then.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Dec 4 09:48:14 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 4 07:02:41 2020.

Merrill Lynch normally has 450 people in the Metlife(Pan Am) building. There have been 20 there since March to basically handle the teller window, scan or fax the snail-mail, and service the IT hardware. There are currently NO plans to have them return.

Shameful behavoir from a company that's always been a major employer in the city. Keeping their people out of the office not only hurts transit, but also deprives smaller businesses of the money the employees might have spent.


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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Dec 4 10:02:24 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Dec 4 09:44:26 2020.

When I get the chance, I'll drive and go downtown or check out the office parks. I've only seen one empty building, it's European, and they're being sold now to a Pittsburgh company. So we'll see if they continue to work from home after that is over.

As best I can tell from the parking lots most of the suburban office buildings on Long Island have at least some of their workers back in the office. I suppose in part it's because the workers drive and do not have to worry about crowded transit, but more likely it's because the buildings tend to have multiple smaller tenants who have more trouble that huge Manhattan companies in setting up WFH arrangements.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 4 10:19:50 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Dec 4 09:48:14 2020.

Customer service and health of their employees and comes first. They do exist to keep the MTA and local businesses afloat. If there were 50% occupancy, their rush hour would have to be stretched to 5 hours in either direction PLUS WFH 50% of the days. Normal business hours could not be kept.

As it is, 2 of my financial advisors likely had Covid in February, due to their loss of senses of smell, taste, and fever. One commuted from Brooklyn, the other on the MN Upper Hudson Line.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 4 10:21:43 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 4 10:19:50 2020.

They do NOT exist to keep the MTA and local businesses afloat.

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Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Dec 4 10:30:34 2020, in response to Re: NYT: Crowded Subways? Yes, in Neighborhoods Where People Have to Go to Work, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Fri Dec 4 09:37:59 2020.

Crying "privilege" is another reason Democrats keep losing elections. There is no such thing as white privilege and even to the extent that there are things that could be described as such, it clearly alienates people who have derived no noticeable benefit from any such privilege.

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Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices

Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Dec 4 10:38:46 2020, in response to Re:Millions of workers in recent months have returned to offices, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 4 10:19:50 2020.

As it is, 2 of my financial advisors likely had Covid in February, due to their loss of senses of smell, taste, and fever. One commuted from Brooklyn, the other on the MN Upper Hudson Line.

Given that they "likely" had the virus means that neither one was particularly ill and both recovered quickly and completely.



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