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Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 28 07:59:14 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Oct 28 07:36:40 2020. People running to the center or end of the platform would increase dwell time and lengthen the schedule, like on a long trip of the A, D, F, or R. Maybe an extra train set would have to be added, though might still be worthwhile. |
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| (1560391) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Q23 on Wed Oct 28 09:52:49 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Oct 28 07:36:40 2020. Wouldn't you have to compensate for time between the split shifts though? |
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| (1560393) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Oct 28 10:24:17 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 28 07:59:14 2020. Why would people be running to the center or end of the platform? |
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| (1560394) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 28 10:34:42 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Wed Oct 28 10:24:17 2020. People are generally distributed along the entire platform expecting full length trains. If trains are half length, people will head to the center or other half as the train is spotted, increasing dwell time. With 600' platforms, that could be 150' or 300' |
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| (1560417) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 28 15:55:41 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 28 10:34:42 2020. Install signs like the BMT used to have indicating the “trains stop at center of platform.” In the event that the principal entrance is at one end of the platform or another then similar signs can direct passengers to the part of the platform where the trains actually stop. |
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| (1560419) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 28 16:26:57 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Q23 on Wed Oct 28 09:52:49 2020. There was a formula for determining what portion of the between shift time is paid but I don’t recall what it is although I seem to recall that only up to 2 hours of swing time was paid. Dept of Buses still uses split shifts (commonly referred to as “swings”) although Buses tends to label all off vehicle time as a “swing.” There are rules governing what the maximum total spread between the first start time and the final clearing time can be and as I recall Subways and Buses had and still have different sets of rules. On Subways, a run working 8:30 is paid at 8:45 because all time over 8 hours id paid time and a half. On buses a job working 8:30 is paid only 8:30 because the off vehicle (lunch or swing) time is only paid at straight time. In any case, Buses still has runs with a significant amount of swing time so there is some sort of basis to work with. As a bit of historical info, Prior to the Chrystie merges of 1967, IRT and IND Divisions had swing runs intermixes with the straight runs. How far back in went, I don’t know but the BMT was the first division to do away with swing runs in favor of all straight runs with a few exceptions like the remaining 2nd position C/Rs (second carmen) who still had swing runs due to only being needed during rush hours when longer trains required an additional C/R (or even more in the case of the gate cars on the el). Additionally while the IRT and IND used switchmen to relay trains at terminals and out in and lay up trains from.to yards, the BMT runs used the road crews to relay trains at locations where needed and to prepare trains for service and make put ins and layups listed on work programs as “transfer cars" or simply "T/C.” As originally practiced, runs with T/C in the program generally did not make the full complements of normal trips for the line but have some sort of T/C substituted for one of the trips. The way it usually worked was the if the T/C were at the end of the run, the crew would simply lay up their train and barring any additional drilling leave the property without having to sign out. This seemed very attractive to the crews so when it came time to merge the BMT and IND, union members voted overwhelmingly to go with the BMT system and completely eliminate swing runs. Over the years due to confusion as to whether or not crews could be required to make road trips on T/C time if needed, the term T/C was changed to “work as assigned” or WAA and with “productivity” being given increased priority, total spread time on runs was substantially increased so that instead of the WAA time being a hidden break for crews, many runs now require crews to do the full complement of trips the line calls for as well as a put in or lay up and in rare cases both. |
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| (1560440) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Wed Oct 28 22:17:45 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 27 20:32:38 2020. If MTA and the City both want to put stuff somewhere, they can put stuff somewhere, including on, over or under somewheres that have other somethings on themt. |
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Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Oct 28 23:06:52 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Steamdriven on Wed Oct 28 22:17:45 2020. Really? For over 25 years the NYCT has been trying to expand Jamaica yard on the west side. For over 25 years they have not been allowed to. |
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| (1560443) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Oct 28 23:08:23 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 28 10:34:42 2020. Once people know to expect shorter trains, they will adjust. |
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| (1560460) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 29 06:34:32 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Steamdriven on Wed Oct 28 22:17:45 2020. Where do they use express tracks for storage anymore other than the IND east of Forest Hills ? |
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| (1560463) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 29 07:53:19 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 28 15:55:41 2020. I remember those signs on the Larry. |
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Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Oct 29 08:48:18 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 26 16:54:43 2020. How about creating several consists of variable car lengths to match the passenger/time demands.1) Four car sets. 2) Five car sets. 3) six car sets. 4) eight car sets. 5) Nine car sets. 6) Ten car sets. Try it on one line on each Division, A and B first for a test. Use the remaining R/110 A and R/110 B to make up some of these smaller consists. |
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| (1560473) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 29 08:55:29 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Oct 29 08:48:18 2020. That is a lot of breaking and re-making trainsets, now 4 and 5 cars. What will you do with 6 and 9 car sets rush hours ?What are consist limits for OPTO ? |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Thu Oct 29 17:12:10 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Wed Oct 28 23:06:52 2020. |
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| (1560520) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Oct 29 17:23:06 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 29 06:34:32 2020. 4th Ave Subway between 36 and 59 St. |
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Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 29 17:36:26 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 29 17:23:06 2020. I also remember seeing R-1/9s stored on the Concourse express track years ago on a Saturday. I don't suppose they use that track for storage anymore, do they? |
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| (1560528) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Oct 29 17:54:33 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 29 08:55:29 2020. Not only that but if I recall, the short sighted MTA had the various car types set up so they can only be coupled in certain configurations so you can’t just remove a car from one 5 car unit and add it to another. |
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| (1560535) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 29 18:24:23 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 29 17:54:33 2020. The R188's have some 6 car sets, though got rebuilt from R142's. |
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| (1560536) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Oct 29 18:32:37 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 29 17:36:26 2020. What time of year was it? Even now with most trains being laid up in Yards instead of unused exp tks, during certain cold weather plans trains are still laid up on unused underground express tks. During the winter of 1969/1970, I had a run on the KK which was supposed to report at ENY Y. I lived uptown in Wash Hts at the time and found out that due to a cold weather plan 3 my put in was on the S/B 6 Av exp tk N/O W 4th St. I merely had to report to the T/D at W 4th to find out where my train was, OK it and put it in. |
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| (1560540) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu Oct 29 20:29:02 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 29 17:54:33 2020. That is true as only certain cars have equipment that the others in the link rely on but do not have. |
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| (1560549) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 29 22:49:20 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 29 18:32:37 2020. To be honest, I don't remember. More than likely it was sometime during the winter months, so it's quite possible there was a cold weather plan in effect. Two cold weather plans that I remember very well were the use of the Brooklyn-bound track on the Larry between 8th Ave and 3rd Ave. and the BMT Broadway express tracks south of Times Square. |
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| (1560551) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 30 02:15:58 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 29 22:49:20 2020. I remember those also. The one on the BMT Bway Line brings to mind when I was extra and would get the last midnight run out of Astoria reporting at 3:35 Am which normally had a put in from S/O Astoria Blvd. A couple of times when I had that run there was a cold weather plan and was told to report early to 57 St for my train. The times that happened, I signed in at 57 St and was told to deadhead to Astoria and my train would be already there. |
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| (1560553) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Oct 30 04:27:09 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 29 18:32:37 2020. Always great stories from the men in the "trenches". Thank you, Randyo |
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| (1560571) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 30 11:08:19 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 30 02:15:58 2020. We used to transfer to the Broadway line at Union Square on Saturday afternoons so we could ride on, as I put it, a BMT train with letters up front. Shows you how I felt about those BMT standards.On one particular Saturday, we reached the uptown platform and I saw an EE train parked on the n/b express track just inside the tunnel. I'm like, what's going on here? Then an N pulls in on the local track, we boarded and it made all local stops to Times Square. I was not happy. |
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| (1560587) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Oct 30 13:53:12 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 30 11:08:19 2020. Oh, my goodness! |
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| (1560603) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 30 18:40:54 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Oct 30 13:53:12 2020. When the R-42s showed up on the Lonesome Larry, it made things a bit less confusing when a train wrong railed on the 8th Ave.-bound track to 3rd Ave. The conductor would announce, "Brooklyn train, Brooklyn train. This is an LL train to Brooklyn!" |
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| (1560703) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Sun Nov 1 11:46:33 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by AlM on Sat Oct 24 16:43:14 2020. The mta needs updated contracts with the unions . Never will happen . Most conductors should be cross trained as train operators . When you are operating as a train operator get train operator pay , when you are working as a conductor get conductor pay Have your pick , the high seniority gets the higher paying runs. If you cut the trains in two , The conductor has the chance to make more money operating their half of the train opto.I work for a u ion , they are only interested in total membership dues . The Marxist city council and state assembly will drive tax payers out of state more and more . The mta is heading to the sad old days until the remaining people had enough and the next Rudy gets elected . The subways are doomed for the next 30 years . Sad People forget that parts of Europe were occupied by Arab people for centuries and Europe returned |
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Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 2 00:53:07 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Brightonr68 on Sun Nov 1 11:46:33 2020. As I mentioned in another post on this subject, AFAIK, the Canadian transit systems have all T/Os. One operates the train and the other works the doors in one direction on on the return trip the duties are reversed so both get the same pay. |
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Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 2 10:00:34 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 2 00:53:07 2020. Aren't Montreal subway trains OPTO ? |
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Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 2 20:55:13 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 2 10:00:34 2020. I’m not sure since I received that info things might have changed. |
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