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| 1957: the trains you could see on every line (1551270) | |
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| (1551274) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Sat Jun 20 16:46:34 2020, in response to 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 15:47:28 2020. The Sea Beach ran Standards as well as Triplexes (D-types) at that time. There weren't enough Triplexes to equip both the Brighton and Sea Beach expresses. |
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| (1551275) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Jun 20 17:23:09 2020, in response to 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 15:47:28 2020. I always remember Triplexes on the Sea Beach |
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| (1551279) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jun 20 17:34:59 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by BMT Standard on Sat Jun 20 16:46:34 2020. I believe you have it backwards. If I recall from my riding the system at the time, the Sea Beach was 100% D types and the Brighton Exp had the mix of D types and ABs. |
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| (1551280) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by bzuck on Sat Jun 20 17:36:33 2020, in response to 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 15:47:28 2020. I am a few years younger than you. I started railfaning on my own in 1965.IND R1/9 on every line but the A. R10 - A Line one time saw an R1/9 BMT 1 - Brighton Express - R32 1 - Brighton Nassau - R32 1 - Brighton Local - R27/30 2 - Fourth Avenue Local - R27/30 3 - West End Express - R32 3 - West End Short Line - R32 4 - Sea Beach Line - R32 5 - Culver Shuttle - Standards 7 - Franklin - Standards 10 - Myrtle-Chambers - Standards 11 - Myrtle El - Q Types 14 - Broadway Short Line - Standards -occasionally an R16 15 - Jamaica Line - R16s 16 - 14th Street Line - Standards |
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| (1551281) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jun 20 17:37:29 2020, in response to 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 15:47:28 2020. In the late 1950s, an occasional R-10 would show up during the rush hour on the AA/BB and an occasional R-1/9 would show up on the A. I guess it depended on what the Yd/Mast at 207 St Yd had available when one or the other of the lines needed it. |
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| (1551284) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 20 18:49:59 2020, in response to 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 15:47:28 2020. What was your favorite line to railfan? |
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| (1551292) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 21:30:47 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by randyo on Sat Jun 20 17:34:59 2020. Yes, you're right. |
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| (1551293) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 21:35:48 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 20 18:49:59 2020. Brighton-Franklin, when it ran through to Coney Island.Also Myrtle, but more for the BUs than the line. Sitting next to the open section and pulling down the shade if it retained. And the guard or conductor almost always let me crank the Johnson Fare Box on weekends. |
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| (1551294) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 21:36:31 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 21:35:48 2020. *if it RAINED. |
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| (1551296) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jun 20 21:52:46 2020, in response to 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 15:47:28 2020. I was born a few weeks after you started railfanning.:) |
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| (1551299) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Jun 20 22:22:12 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by randyo on Sat Jun 20 17:34:59 2020. I agree |
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| (1551301) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 20 23:39:27 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 21:35:48 2020. My family still talks about how great Myrtle Ave was. An Uncle who took the train to Brooklyn Tech from Seneca Ave.The M from Metropolitan to Broad us my favorite. J is great too. |
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| (1551305) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jun 21 08:30:01 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by randyo on Sat Jun 20 17:34:59 2020. Wasn't that arrangement flipflopped by the early 60s? |
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| (1551313) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Sun Jun 21 11:43:52 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by randyo on Sat Jun 20 17:37:29 2020. Also, in the late 1950s, R-10s were not allowed to the Rockaways (pending upgrades to electrical substations), so rush hour A trains to Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park were R-1/9s. |
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| (1551321) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jun 21 15:01:29 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by BMT Standard on Sun Jun 21 11:43:52 2020. Weren't shorter trains and reduced speeds the rule as well? |
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| (1551323) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jun 21 15:42:36 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jun 21 08:30:01 2020. In the 1960s when the R-27/30s started to show up a few moves were made. By the time of the R-32s the Ds were moved off both the Brighton and the Sea Beach to the West End where they spent their last days. |
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| (1551324) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jun 21 15:47:51 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by BMT Standard on Sun Jun 21 11:43:52 2020. Initially, since the R-10s were not allowed in the Rockaways, the mainline Rockaway service was provided by the E which was 100% R1/9s. For a while, they also had to run in series speed till the substations were upgraded. |
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| (1551329) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Jun 21 17:57:21 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jun 21 15:01:29 2020. When I first rode the Rockaway Line (when it still ran only to Wave craft it did run over Jamaica Bay with R9s at half-speed.It took FOREVER. |
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| (1551330) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jun 21 18:13:31 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by randyo on Sun Jun 21 15:47:51 2020. We must know why. Why no R-10s in the Rockaways? |
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| (1551331) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sun Jun 21 18:55:21 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jun 21 18:13:31 2020. They had four motors per car instead of two per car as on all the prewar cars. There was a strike at Westinghouse and some of the electrical equipment needed to equip the substations was not available so some was borrowed from the Dyre Ave. line which was not yet running through service to the rest of the IRT. Once the strike ended full power was provided to both lines so R10 cars could run through to the Rockaways on the A train and eventually the Dyre Ave. line could run the newer R type cars in through IRT service as they were rapidly replacing the old prewar cars. |
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| (1551332) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jun 21 19:47:48 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jun 21 08:30:01 2020. Mom took us to Brighton Beach almost daily that last summer before the R32's were introduced and we always rode DTypes. I never saw a Standard on the Brighton Exp. as I stood in front of the RFW. I remember the West End had all Standards and the Sea Beach was a mixture. |
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| (1551335) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jun 21 21:03:58 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by murray1575 on Sun Jun 21 18:55:21 2020. I wish cell phones and speedometer apps were around in July of 1969, when I went on what amounted to be a rocket ride on a Far Rockaway-bound R-10 Abbott. Once we cleared the bridge, we were off to the races. That train took off as if it had a Saturn V booster strapped to it (Apollo 11 had just blasted off to the moon). We had to be doing 55 at the very least down the straightaway. |
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| (1551336) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jun 21 21:05:24 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by SLRT on Sun Jun 21 17:57:21 2020. I wonder what the gear pitch was. Did it even make it to Middle C? |
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| (1551339) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 22 00:24:47 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by murray1575 on Sun Jun 21 18:55:21 2020. Thanks. |
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| (1551342) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Jun 22 03:42:38 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 20 23:39:27 2020. Probably after reading the Silver Leaf brochure about the Q-types running on the Myrtle (and maybe a source from somewhere else - don't remember - maybe verbal from another railfan from the ERA; quite possible), I rode and photograped the Myrtle a few times - definately remember doing it spring of 1968, maybe a couple of times during the previous 12 months or so; or whenver that Silver Leaf brochure was published. Took B & W photos with my Minolta range finder 35 mm.A totally unique experience, the el, the Q's etc. I never rode it late night when the conductor collected the fares. |
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| (1551343) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Jun 22 03:54:36 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 20 23:39:27 2020. I wonder if the Transit Museum will ever take the restored BU's out on any fan trips like they did years ago. I've only seen the pictures of those.Figuring with the gate cars, they'd be too damned worried about some idiot sticking his arms or head off the platform and getting injured or worse* *getting Louis the XVIth-ed by a signal and someone's head landing on someone's Subaru - massive lawsuit if that ever happened |
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| (1551351) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Jun 22 04:15:47 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 20 23:39:27 2020. I was lucky enough to ride Myrtle-Chambers on the inner J with Standards in the spring of 1968. I missed them on the Southern Division (as well as the D-types) so riding them from Chambers to Metropolitan that spring was like a gift. |
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| (1551357) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jun 22 09:43:23 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jun 21 21:03:58 2020. On June 18, 1999, I had my greatest day of railfanning ever. The PATH zipping across Newark Bay was amazing! I'm guessing your ride across Jamaica Bay 30 years earlier was similar. |
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| (1551358) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jun 22 09:44:42 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 20 23:39:27 2020. The J is my favorite and 7 my second-favorite. |
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| (1551359) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 22 10:04:04 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jun 21 19:47:48 2020. On the cusp of the R32s, I saw a substantial number of Standards on the Sea Beach for the first time in my memory. |
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| (1551361) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by mack c-49 on Mon Jun 22 10:33:49 2020, in response to 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by SLRT on Sat Jun 20 15:47:28 2020. Weren't the multis still running on the Canarsie line in 1957? |
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| (1551365) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by northshore on Mon Jun 22 11:55:13 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by mack c-49 on Mon Jun 22 10:33:49 2020. Correct. the 10 14 St-Canasie Line ran Multi's in 1957 |
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| (1551375) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon Jun 22 14:37:21 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jun 21 21:03:58 2020. Those R-10 cars were some of the loudest cars ever to run on the system. At least outdoors on the flats that was not a problem. I don't think they could go that fast as 50 mph is often quoted as the top speed of subway cars. In an enclosed tunnel the perceived speed is much faster. |
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| (1551378) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 15:30:49 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by murray1575 on Mon Jun 22 14:37:21 2020. The balancing speed of the R-10s, as delivered was 55 MPH on FLT. There were several spots where they could exceed that speed. |
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| (1551386) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jun 22 17:14:59 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 15:30:49 2020. I always thought that they had speed govenors on their traction motors that held them (and any other post war equiptment) to a max allowable speed of 55?? |
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| (1551387) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 17:23:36 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jun 22 17:14:59 2020. Actually not true. In DC propulsion, there is a point known as balancing speed. I did not see a good explanation on Google but its the point at which the motor is running at its most efficient. For all NYCT equipment R10 Thru R68A, except for the R44 and R46 the balancing speed was 55 mph.Now you car slow down the max speed by reducing the field shunting but even so, the trains could exceed 60 mph down grade. On the R44 and R46, the balancing speeds were 75 and 80 mph IIRC but I don't remember which was which |
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| (1551388) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Westcode44 on Mon Jun 22 17:30:56 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 17:23:36 2020. R44 was 80 MPH Regulated Speed-WE-44 |
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| (1551389) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 17:40:06 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Westcode44 on Mon Jun 22 17:30:56 2020. Thanks |
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| (1551397) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 22 19:38:48 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by northshore on Mon Jun 22 11:55:13 2020. You mean 16/14 St Line. Sometime after the Fulton St el was turned over to the IND and the Multis were no longer needed for the 14/Fulton service, the TA decided to transfer the Multis to the Myrtle/Chambers so the could keep up with the R-16s on the Jamaica Line. At the time the Myrtle/Chambers ran all day Mon - Sat so by putting Multis on it the trains wouldn’t hold up the Jamaica trains like the steels did. |
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| (1551400) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 22 21:27:02 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 22 19:38:48 2020. I heard the R-16s could hold their own, speed-wise, when they were new. |
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| (1551401) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jun 22 21:50:07 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 17:23:36 2020. Was the balancing speed usually the same as the max speed?? |
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| (1551402) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Jun 22 22:15:22 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 22 21:27:02 2020. They had one of their power resister grids removed as part of a fleet modification for the WH cars sometime in the 70s before they were mothballed. not related to the Ge failures |
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| (1551403) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 23:00:37 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jun 22 21:50:07 2020. I went back and checked and made 2 errors in my previous post. The balancing speed for all cars From R10 up to R68A but excluding the R44 & R46 was 50 MPH. The max operational speed on flat, level tangent track was listed as 45 MPH. The balancing speed for the R44/R46 was 80 MPH but max operating speed was 45 on existing lines but could operate up to 70 MPH on hew lines.Of course, after GOH, with larger traction motors and different gearing, all bets were off. |
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| (1551404) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jun 23 01:41:31 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 17:23:36 2020. I once clocked a train of R-16s on the Jamaica Exp between E/Pky and Bway/Myrtle at 60 MPH. |
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| (1551405) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Jun 23 04:32:41 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 23:00:37 2020. Thank you for this information! It's all in the details. Good stuff. |
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| (1551411) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 23 08:06:02 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 23:00:37 2020. Thanks much. Interesting and informative!! |
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| (1551423) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by K. Trout on Tue Jun 23 13:55:41 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 22 23:00:37 2020. Where did they expect to operate at 70mph? The 63 St super-express? |
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| (1551425) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 23 14:35:34 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by K. Trout on Tue Jun 23 13:55:41 2020. IIRC it was in the 60th St BMT tunnel. |
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| (1551426) | |
Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 23 14:40:33 2020, in response to Re: 1957: the trains you could see on every line, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 23 14:35:34 2020. The 63rd St express was one of the them. Also, the extension of the E line to Rosedale along the LIRR ROW was another possible consideration. Keep in mind, the 70 MPH option "expired" in 1990 when the R46s went to GOH and were retrofitted with the SCM-1 controller. |
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