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| Re: Canarsie Line (1547160) | |
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| (1547812) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 18:23:42 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by italianstallion on Mon May 18 16:14:43 2020. K for Kings County (Bway Bklyn local), which the R27's and on called the "Nassau Street Local" (which made no sense to anyone). |
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| (1547813) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon May 18 18:25:31 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 18 13:41:24 2020. Nice! I have large and small BMT destination sign rolls but no sign box. - Maybe June 1968 I was railfanning north on the F train with my younger brother Roger & saw the ABs being scrapped from the Avenue X (?)station.I told my brother to hang out and wait on the platform, I left the station crossed the road and went through the open gate - told the scrapping crew what I wanted (they must have been independent contractors), they said sure. One of them gave me a screwdriver, and I went in to two different cars and unscrewed two sets of destination roll signs. Lived out a dream only a NY railfan can have. Trying to take an entire signbox in this situation would been too cumbersome and bulky. |
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| (1547818) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 18:29:49 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 18:22:31 2020. The QT was distinguished from the QB. If there were just one Brighton local it would have been the QQ. Maybe the W would be the NT while the weekend N local via bridge would be the NB. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1547820) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 18:32:38 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 18:23:42 2020. All the other BMT trains at the time served Kings County too. |
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| (1547823) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 18 18:35:12 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Express Rider on Mon May 18 18:25:31 2020. Trying to take an entire signbox in this situation would been too cumbersome and bulky.Yep, my sign box it a bit heavy. I built a wood base so I could hang it on the wall. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1547827) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon May 18 18:47:32 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 18:20:40 2020. IIRC ENY loaned 32 R-16s to Jamaica Yard. Not sure how many BMT standards were given a last-minute stay of execution; probably enough to offset the loss of the R-16s. |
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| (1547828) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 18:48:49 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by BMT Standard on Mon May 18 11:27:55 2020. Some Nassau St services like the Culver would carry Chambers St in one of the boxes also. The Nassau St destination was meant for trains going to the Nassau St Line via the bridge and returning via the tunnel and vice versa. Some signs were a little more descriptive and had readings: Via tunnel and (in small letters above) Nassau Loop ( in large letters) Via bridge to Bkln (in small letters below). Trains going the other direction would have the small “via bridge” and “via tunnel” info reversed. Only the ABs with the large size signs cars 2500 and up would have those readings. The older ABs with the smaller signs merely had “Nassau St” readings. |
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| (1547831) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 18:53:54 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon May 18 18:47:32 2020. Well in August of 1966 when I became a C/R, I broke in on a train of steels on the Bway Bkln Lcl. |
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| (1547835) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 18 19:11:51 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon May 18 13:22:17 2020. I was the one who first suggested they match the crosstown routes in a 1974 letter to The NY Times when they renumbered routes consecutively to eliminate duplicate numbers. |
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| (1547836) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 19:17:09 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 18 11:59:08 2020. At one point I heard that they did sent a D type to the 14 St line for about a week but it never stayed. |
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| (1547837) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 19:18:05 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by randyo on Mon May 18 18:53:54 2020. Did they mix up these Southern Division rescues with the rebuilt ENY ones ? |
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| (1547838) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 19:21:15 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 18:23:42 2020. KK may have been so labeled because it was originally intended to go the Canal St but since they couldn’t use CC they opted for KK (for Kanal?). Another reason might have been since many of the KKs terminated at Atlantic they relayed on the former Fulton St el tks which were designated K. |
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| (1547839) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 19:23:47 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 19:18:05 2020. By the time I started with the TA the only steels in the Southern Div were 2 car trains of A cars on the Culver Shuttle. Also as I recall, the only non rebuilt steels that were still in service were the museum unit 2390/1/2. |
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| (1547841) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 19:31:22 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by randyo on Mon May 18 19:23:47 2020. But what about the 32 pulled from the Sea Beach scrap line and sent to ENY ? |
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| (1547842) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon May 18 19:33:14 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by randyo on Mon May 18 19:23:47 2020. Those were ones (A-types) my brother and I must have ridden on the Culver shuttle, spring of 1968.IIRC seeing the museum B-type in service on the Canarsie - or was it the Jamaica line at the same time. Were there any rebuilt Steels in the 2000-2399 series, or were all the rebuilds done from 2400 series and up? |
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| (1547854) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 20:12:59 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 18 11:43:24 2020. Bowery would not be a sensible place to terminate service since there were no switches there to turn back trains so any trains terminating there would have to go at least as far as Canal to turn back. |
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| (1547856) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 20:18:49 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Express Rider on Mon May 18 19:33:14 2020. Only 2400 series and up with one 4000 series BX trailer. After that, the TA decided to get rid of the trailers so the 4000s were scrapped and some were replaced with 2600s that were originally A cars effectively making the former BXs int straight Bs. The last group of former BXs (I’m not sure at the moment how many of each group were made) were simply coupled together as 2 car BT units which were used as 2 car butts added the 6 car trains of Bs to make 8 car trains. Since the 2400 series cars had long had their C/Rs button boards decommissioned, BT units could only be used as add ons to make 8 car trains, not as free standing 2 car trains for Culver shuttle service. |
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| (1547882) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 19 08:18:30 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 15:22:04 2020. I've often toyed with the idea of having line names be somehow associated (flexibly, not strictly) with the track names / chaining codes.Where there are combinations, double letters could be used. Canarsie line would be the Q. The D on the West End is a "happy accident" in this regard. I don't advocate this; I just like toying around with the map. |
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| (1547889) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 09:31:32 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 17:04:47 2020. I agree. It is signed Sea Beach Local on the runs that go south of Whitehall anyway. |
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| (1547890) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 09:35:02 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 18:32:38 2020. And Kings County suggests Fulton, at least to historians. Also K chaining was also Fulton; in fact, still is, over Liberty Ave, and its BMT-E chained. |
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| (1547891) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 09:36:17 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by randyo on Mon May 18 19:21:15 2020. Occam's Razor: It was KK for the Broadway Brooklyn as the next letter after J. |
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| (1547892) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 09:40:16 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 19 08:18:30 2020. E - Sea Beach?B - Culver? A - Brighton? F - Fourth Avenue? I don't think so. |
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| (1547893) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 19 10:11:44 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 09:40:16 2020. Culver could be C under the original codes. Bonus points for a Concourse-to-Culver service.I know of course it wouldn't be practical. The chaining codes exist for a different purpose from passenger route designations. |
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| (1547894) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Tue May 19 10:20:27 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 19 10:11:44 2020. Let's build an underwater train station at the IND Zero point! |
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| (1547896) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 10:30:00 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Express Rider on Mon May 18 19:33:14 2020. In addition to what Randy said, the rebuilt cars were 2400-2799 and, I believe, one trailer.2899 was the only rebuilt 2800 car, because it was coupled with 2775-2774. A few steels from the ACF 2300-2399 were rebuilt ONLY because they had been renumbered to replace cars in the rebuilt series that had been wrecked. I have these numbers: 2327 & 2339 became 2nd-2470-2471 (a BT unit) 2351 became 2nd 2576 2399 became 2nd 2714 2189 became 2nd 2791 |
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| (1547897) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 10:33:00 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Union Tpke on Tue May 19 10:20:27 2020. We could call it Ocean Zero. |
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| (1547899) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 10:38:22 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 10:30:00 2020. 2327 & 2329 became 2nd-2470-2471 |
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| (1547901) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue May 19 10:51:50 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 10:30:00 2020. 2327 & 2339 became 2nd-2470-2471 (a BT unit) Here's #2327 ans an A-B work motor, which was a three car set. Comments ? (March 1965) 
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| (1547904) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 11:04:43 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue May 19 10:51:50 2020. That's what I have in my notes, so I can't comment further unless I find mort info. |
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| (1548026) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 20 08:35:40 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Union Tpke on Tue May 19 10:20:27 2020. I've always wondered about that zero point. Who's idea was that? |
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| (1548029) | |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed May 20 09:49:12 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 20 08:35:40 2020. The City's. It was part of the engineering mentality of the time; to set a single immutable zero point, independent of this or that physical station. Not the worst idea. |
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| (1548042) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 20 14:16:48 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 10:33:00 2020. Oceanzone park! |
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| (1548043) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 20 14:39:22 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Wed May 20 09:49:12 2020. I'm ignorant. What's the advantage of having a zero point that is not a physical station? |
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| (1548044) | |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed May 20 14:49:34 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 20 14:39:22 2020. To avoid the use of negative numbers for chaining numbers on the IND system. They knew they would never build a city subway that far south. |
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| (1548045) | |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 20 14:54:24 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by VictorM on Wed May 20 14:49:34 2020. But why be so obscure about it all? Why not just make West 4th St a nice round number that would be practical for the long-term future and have everything go up and down from that number? I never quite got why the river had to be involved. |
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| (1548048) | |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed May 20 15:50:34 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 20 14:54:24 2020. If you're going to use an arbitrary number for W4, what's wrong with using a number based on a known fixed point. Anyway, it makes for a good trivia question.There is no single dependable zero point that can't be compromised in some way. The Myrtle, Liberty Avenue Line, and Franklin Shuttle are all chained from a long demolished zero point. |
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| (1548052) | |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed May 20 16:33:14 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 20 14:54:24 2020. IND zero is not in a river but in Lower NY Bay just north of Keansburg, NJ |
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| (1548054) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 20 16:46:12 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 20 14:54:24 2020. Whoever came up with it must have been into the idea that measurements should be based on some physical reality and not just arbitrary. Similar to how the meter was originally defined as exactly 1/40,000,000 of the polar circumference of the Earth.Thus the distance to the Raritan Bay was a number based on the actual location of W 4 Street, and also served to prevent the number from ever reaching, being farther south than any land in the city, or even the state. |
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| (1548062) | |
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Posted by murray1575 on Wed May 20 17:34:02 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 17 12:37:14 2020. I heard of one runaway on the Myrtle Ave. line where a train of Multis just would not stop. Fortunately it did eventually stop on its own before reaching Metropolitan Ave. |
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| (1548063) | |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 17:40:51 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by murray1575 on Wed May 20 17:34:02 2020. Odd story. I'd like to know what happened.Usually gravity or collision stops a runaway. |
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| (1548064) | |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 17:40:54 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by murray1575 on Wed May 20 17:34:02 2020. Odd story. I'd like to know what happened.Usually gravity or collision stops a runaway. |
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| (1548067) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 20 18:30:33 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by murray1575 on Wed May 20 17:34:02 2020. Reminds me of the Springfield Monorail. Why there's nothing on Earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, five car multisection. |
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| (1548068) | |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 18:31:43 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 17:40:51 2020. Odd story. I'd like to know what happened. The story appears in James Greller's original book about the BMT Els. Apparently a Queens-bound Multi ran right through Myrtle Avenue (LL) station without stopping and headed up the Myrtle Avenue Line.The quick thinking towerman phoned ahead to the agent at Wycloff. The agent in turn ran up to the platform and told the leading train to get out of town. The dispatcher up at Metropolitan Avenue immediately started to clear the station tracks. Fortunately the runaway Multis came to a stop at Knickerbocker Avenue. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1548072) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed May 20 19:29:41 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 20 18:30:33 2020. LOL |
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| (1548076) | |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Wed May 20 20:30:25 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Tue May 19 10:30:00 2020. Speaking of the BMT Standards, when were the first rebuilt ones retired? |
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| (1548077) | |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Wed May 20 20:37:55 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 18:31:43 2020. That's some story! |
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| (1548079) | |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 21:40:22 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 18:31:43 2020. Thanks.That's an amazing story and one very Tuscarora worthy. I'm guessing gravity of the upgrade at Knickerbocker slowed it down. |
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| (1548089) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 20 23:11:37 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 18:31:43 2020. Somehow I think that story is just pure urban legend. If the Master controller in the cab were in the off position, the control switch cut off and the brakes applied in emergency, I don’t see how the train would have been able to continue. If that had been the case, I’m sure the TA’s legal dept would have had all the Multis pulled from service at that point. |
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| (1548093) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed May 20 23:25:59 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by randyo on Wed May 20 23:11:37 2020. The Multis never operated on the IND, "A" train specifically did they?If so, would they have been faster than anything else at the time for the 59th-125th street run? |
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| (1548094) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed May 20 23:33:45 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 18 18:35:12 2020. I looked at the photo again. It's all polished up and nice!Excellent restoration job! |
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