Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle

Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle (1534667)	Home · Maps · About

Home > SubChat

[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]

(1534667)	view threaded
Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 8 09:24:14 2020 When the Standard were used on the Franklin Shuttle what was the rollsign reading? Was it Franklin Shuttle or Brighton Local or Brighton-Franklin? I rode the Standards on the shuttle but I cannot remember what the reading was. Thank you for your responses. Larry, RedbirdR33
Post a New Response

(1534683)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Wed Jan 8 12:09:45 2020, in response to Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 8 09:24:14 2020.* Local Franklin Ave. Local Prospect Park Bill Newkirk
Post a New Response

(1534684)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by SLRT* on Wed Jan 8 12:23:06 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jan 8 12:09:45 2020.* Boring, but true.
Post a New Response

(Sponsored)

iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It

(1534686)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by SLRT* on Wed Jan 8 12:40:48 2020, in response to Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 8 09:24:14 2020.* When SIRT cars were on the Shuttle just before the first R27 deliveries they had plate metal signs in the old BU tradition: BRIGHTON LINE PROSPECT PARK BRIGHTON LINE FRANKLIN AVE Standards on the Franklin-Nassau (alias SSSS) carried EXPRESS FRANKLIN AVE EXPRESS CHAMBERS ST. according to Karl Bernstein, despite the fact that the Standards had "FRANKLIN-NASSAU" on their roll signs. Go figure.
Post a New Response

(1534693)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33* on Wed Jan 8 14:21:50 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jan 8 12:09:45 2020.* Thanks Bill. Larry, RedbirdR33
Post a New Response

(1534711)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by randyo* on Wed Jan 8 16:18:55 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jan 8 12:09:45 2020.* The ABs and probably the D types as well had generic “local” and “express” side signs as did the IRT R types as delivered.
Post a New Response

(1534742)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Wed Jan 8 18:44:19 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 8 16:18:55 2020.* My BMT standard signbox has no shuttle route signs. According to the Encyclopedia of NYC Subway Rollsigns, the Triplexes had no generic Express or Local route signs. They just had all Southern Division routes with express and local designations for each, except Fourth Av. Lcl and Coney Island Exp.
Post a New Response

(1534744)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Wed Jan 8 18:45:46 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 8 12:40:48 2020.* It's possible that the earlier standards with the small side signs may not have had Franklin-Nassau route signs.
Post a New Response

(1534798)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by SLRT* on Thu Jan 9 09:10:20 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jan 8 18:44:19 2020.* Encyclopedia of NYC Subway Rollsigns That's a great book! I don't doubt it's worth the $200+ but it's kind of rich for me.
Post a New Response

(1534824)	view threaded
[PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Thu Jan 9 11:23:19 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jan 8 18:45:46 2020.*
Post a New Response

(1534830)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Joe V* on Thu Jan 9 11:51:54 2020, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 9 11:23:19 2020.* The Standards had 2 route signs, for 4 roll signs in total. Did each route sign have the same read-outs ?
Post a New Response

(1534865)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Thu Jan 9 14:34:14 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 9 11:51:54 2020.* The Standards had 2 route signs, for 4 roll signs in total. Did each route sign have the same read-outs ? randyo would know for sure. Bill Newkirk
Post a New Response

(1534907)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by SLRT* on Thu Jan 9 20:28:10 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 9 11:51:54 2020.* Yes.
Post a New Response

(1534964)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Elkeeper* on Fri Jan 10 12:35:45 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jan 9 14:34:14 2020.* Which trains had, LOCAL VIA LOOP, on their side markers, the R-10's or the R-11's?
Post a New Response

(1534999)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Fri Jan 10 17:09:06 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jan 10 12:35:45 2020.* Which trains had, LOCAL VIA LOOP, on their side markers, the R-10's or the R-11's? AB's 2500-2899 series
Post a New Response

(1535023)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by randyo* on Fri Jan 10 19:04:58 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jan 10 17:09:06 2020.* That’s not the reading he’s talking about. Those signs were only on the 2500 and up steels. The 2000- 2499 steels had simply “Nassau St” on their destination signs for Nassau Loop services that ran via bridge and tunnel in opposite directions.
Post a New Response

(1535035)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Fri Jan 10 21:56:29 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 9 11:51:54 2020.* The top curtain had route signs while the bottom curtain had destination signs. In addition, each top curtain had, "Via Bridge" and "Via Tunnel." One sign would have the route and the other had, "Via Bridge" or, "Via Tunnel" if that train was on the Southern Division. The "Via Bridge" and "Via Tunnel" signs were not used on the Three Stooges Division. I still remember riding on the standards on the Lonesome Larry, and all route signs were set to "14th St. L'c'l."
Post a New Response

(1535055)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Sat Jan 11 08:15:28 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 10 19:04:58 2020.* That’s not the reading he’s talking about. Those signs were only on the 2500 and up steels. The 2000- 2499 steels had simply “Nassau St” on their destination signs for Nassau Loop services that ran via bridge and tunnel in opposite directions. I posted that photo to see you or anyone had the correct answer. That sounded close to what he was asking. Bill Newkirk
Post a New Response

(1535086)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by randyo* on Sat Jan 11 16:23:29 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 10 21:56:29 2020.* I suspect that prior to 1956 when the 14St/Fulton service ended, the few steels than ran express carried 14 St Exp although in those days the principal equipment used on all the 14 St service was Multis.
Post a New Response

(1535111)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Express Rider* on Sat Jan 11 19:09:34 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 10 21:56:29 2020.* I've posted this before, I was lucky enough to ride the Standards on the Canarsie line in 1966-67 after they were gone from the Southern division; and also lucky to have ridden them in Myrtle Chambers rush hour service, around June of 1968.
Post a New Response

(1535122)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Sat Jan 11 20:59:23 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Express Rider on Sat Jan 11 19:09:34 2020.* I rode on them for their last two years of service, 1967-69, and exclusively on the Larry.
Post a New Response

(1535126)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Sat Jan 11 21:03:58 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 11 16:23:29 2020.* They also had, "14th St. line." Never saw that displayed. One Saturday we were waiting for our train to leave 8th Ave. and I noticed one of the route signs wasn't set to 14th St. L'c'l. I started turning the crank handle while my mother was freaking out, and stopped when it got to Local. She was terrified that I'd get caught.
Post a New Response

(1535223)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Jan 13 06:08:09 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Jan 11 08:15:28 2020.* The Bankers Specials on the Brighton Line used Standards (6-cars with the bullseye, and we're signed EXPRESS BROAD ST EXPRESS NASSAU ST
Post a New Response

(1535224)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Jan 13 06:14:51 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 11 20:59:23 2020.* Those were the years I was in the Army, so I missed most of the end of the Standards. :(
Post a New Response

(1535227)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Jan 13 07:12:07 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 13 06:08:09 2020.* The signs on the Standards really were a disorderly mess.
Post a New Response

(1535268)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by randyo* on Mon Jan 13 17:17:47 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 13 06:08:09 2020.* I think that the reason Nassau St was used instead of the traditional via bridge or via tunnel signs is because during rush hours trains operated in one direction via the bridge and returned via the tunnel or vice versa depending on the service.
Post a New Response

(1535275)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Jan 13 17:51:58 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 13 17:17:47 2020.* You'd expect to see a Route sign, a Via sign, a South Terminal, a North Terminal But in this case, you can't tell how the train as routed. EXPRESS BROAD ST EXPRESS NASSAU ST
Post a New Response

(1535285)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Jan 13 18:52:04 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 13 17:51:58 2020.* Broad Street was the last stop in Manhattan as the a.m. Bankers were via Bridge to Chambers and then south to the Tunnel.
Post a New Response

(1535291)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by randyo* on Mon Jan 13 19:16:50 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 13 18:52:04 2020.* Then that would probably mean that the PM Bankers’ specials which operated N/B via tunnel and S/B via bridge carried Chambers St as the north terminal.
Post a New Response

(1535383)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by BrooklynBus* on Tue Jan 14 18:28:44 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 8 12:40:48 2020.* I thought I remember Lo Vs on the Brighton Franklin local. Were those SIRT cars. I remember SIRT cars on the Culver which had bars on the windows so you couldn't stick your hands out the window. There were no bars on the Franklin cars. Also, what's the Franklin Nassau?
Post a New Response

(1535392)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33* on Tue Jan 14 18:53:58 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 14 18:28:44 2020.* I thought I remember Lo Vs on the Brighton Franklin local. Were those SIRT cars. I remember SIRT cars on the Culver which had bars on the windows so you couldn't stick your hands out the window. There were no bars on the Franklin cars. IRT Lo-Vs ran on both the Franklin and Culver lines for about a year prior to the arrival of the R-27s. The SIRT cars ran here as well. Regarding the "Franklin-Nassau": Tuscarora Almanac – May 10, 1924 – The Book of First Runs Brooklyn and Manhattan, New York Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit Corporation No. 7 Franklin-Nassau trains begin service. They will operate on weekends during the summer between Franklin Avenue Terminal in Brooklyn and Chambers Street Station in Manhattan. Trains will operated via the express tracks of the Brighton, Sea Beach and Fourth Avenue lines and the tracks on the south side of the Manhattan Bridge. This service lasted until 1952. Larry, RedbirdR33
Post a New Response

(1535399)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Express Rider* on Tue Jan 14 19:27:15 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jan 14 18:53:58 2020.* I have a picture of Lo-V's on the Franklin shuttle with those slanted extenders added to the car sides to cover the gap. What was the passenger volume like on Franklin-Nassau after it left Coney Island for Chambers St. It's easy to assume crowds on the Brighton line since this was CI bound. But CI - Chambers? on the weekends were there that many people leaving throughout the day who would want to travel northbound (non RR directional) ?
Post a New Response

(1535427)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by BMT Standard* on Tue Jan 14 21:23:05 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Express Rider on Tue Jan 14 19:27:15 2020.* I am sure that there were few through rides from Franklin to Chambers. The Franklin-Nassau served traffic to Brighton Beach and Coney Island from both ends - connection to the Fulton St. line at Franklin Ave. and to IRT lines at Chambers St.
Post a New Response

(1535431)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Tue Jan 14 21:59:29 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by BMT Standard on Tue Jan 14 21:23:05 2020.* Chances are that, depending on the time of day, they were jam packed in one direction and empty the other way to and from Coney Island.
Post a New Response

(1535433)	view threaded
[PHOTO] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Tue Jan 14 22:32:49 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jan 14 18:53:58 2020.* Could this be the same service AKA "bulls eye" Brighton -Franklin Express, or did this replace the Franklin-Nassau ?(July 4, 1953)
Post a New Response

(1535434)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33* on Tue Jan 14 22:34:02 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Express Rider on Tue Jan 14 19:27:15 2020.* I don't have the figures for that. Coney Island drew hugh crowds back in the day. In addition to the beach Steeplechase and Luna Park Amusement Parks were both open. The special only ran on sunny days. Larry, RedbirdR33
Post a New Response

(1535435)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33* on Tue Jan 14 22:37:11 2020, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Jan 14 22:32:49 2020.* Bill: In addition to the Franklin-Nassau trains there were always weekend express to Brighton Beach or Coney Island. The train is this picture is carrying a white disc. I believe that this means its a Franklin-Nassau special to Chambers Street. Larry, RedbirdR33
Post a New Response

(1535437)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Tue Jan 14 23:12:00 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jan 14 22:37:11 2020.* Bill: In addition to the Franklin-Nassau trains there were always weekend express to Brighton Beach or Coney Island. The train is this picture is carrying a white disc. I believe that this means its a Franklin-Nassau special to Chambers Street. The photo date year is 1953, but your source stated the service lasted until 1952. Which do you think is right ? Bill Newkirk
Post a New Response

(1535438)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Tue Jan 14 23:13:09 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jan 14 22:34:02 2020.* The special only ran on sunny days. As in the "Sunny Summer Sunday Special" ? Bill Newkirk
Post a New Response

(1535445)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by randyo* on Wed Jan 15 01:04:13 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Jan 14 23:13:09 2020.* Exactly. Now other than Sundays during the summer, the Fkln Shuttle ran as Brighton Lcl to Stl on weekends. During the Sunny Summer Sundays, they ran Exp on the Brighton Line and the Fkln crews were relieved at Stl by special crews that only operated between Stl and Chambers St.
Post a New Response

(1535446)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by randyo* on Wed Jan 15 01:11:00 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jan 14 18:53:58 2020.* The Fkln Shuttle had a few variations in equipment over the years at some point, I believe circa 1956, Multis (other than the Zephyr) were assigned to the Fkln Shuttle for about a week but for some reason they were withdrawn and replaced by ABs and SIRTs. Circa 1958 Qs were placed on the Fkln Shuttle for about a week but they were withdrawn supposedly because with the maximum traction trucks they retained from their time on the IRT they had troublg going from PPK to Fkln which was mostly up grade. Why a few C types weren't retained for use there instead of the Multis I don’t know since it was about the time the Fulton St el got turned over to the IND.
Post a New Response

(1535465)	view threaded
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33* on Wed Jan 15 10:43:15 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Jan 14 23:12:00 2020.* Bill: The original reference was from a 1966 article written by Mr. Bernard LInder. He wrote a further series of articles in 2003 again using 1952 as the last year of service. However in an article written in May 2003 he states that an ERA member recalls riding the service on June 28, 1953. Since the Franklin-Nassau ran intermittently on Sundays only it might be possible that it ran a few times in 1953 as well. Larry, RedbirdR33
Post a New Response

(1535631)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by BrooklynBus* on Thu Jan 16 16:06:02 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jan 14 18:53:58 2020.* Thanks, never knew about Franklin Nassau. Guess at 3 years old, I was a little too young to remember them.
Post a New Response

(1535632)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by BrooklynBus* on Thu Jan 16 16:11:20 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jan 14 22:34:02 2020.* Brighton Beach also had huge crowds. Now there are six exit doors from the stairways to the mezzanine level. When I was a kid, there were 12 exit doors to accommodate the crowds exiting the trains to keep the platforms from getting too crowded. Over the years, half the doors were removed and the bottom of the stairways narrowed with the space converted to storage space.
Post a New Response

(1535646)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33* on Thu Jan 16 17:06:07 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 16 16:06:02 2020.* Your very welcome. There were a lot of those quirky services that were not well known. Larry, RedbirdR33
Post a New Response

(1535792)	view threaded
Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle
Posted by BrooklynBus* on Fri Jan 17 20:35:06 2020, in response to Re: Standard Rollsigns on the Franklin Shuttle, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Jan 16 17:06:07 2020.* Off topic, but did you know Brooklyn trolley companies ran special Beach routes in the summer using existing trackage?
Post a New Response

[ Return to the Message Index ]