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The Triboro line - a "wish list" item

Posted by BrooklynTrain on Thu Oct 17 20:20:45 2019

https://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/42/43/all-south-brooklyn-commuter-line-2019-10-25-bk.html

Would this accept $2.75 subway fare & Unlimited Metrocard? Hope so, since then people will actually ride it instead of a local bus. You could save the MTA money by running less B9/B11 crosstown buses, less S79/S53 buses over the bridge since passengers could now use the train to SI (followed by any transfer needed at St George), etc. Less buses = savings to the MTA.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by zac on Fri Oct 18 10:18:59 2019, in response to The Triboro line - a "wish list" item, posted by BrooklynTrain on Thu Oct 17 20:20:45 2019.

It doesn't say anything about a train to SI. And the cost of running the train would far exceed the cost of operating a few buses. I'm not saying I don't believe it could be a good idea. It has been discussed endlessly over the years and nothing ever happens. One idea was to extend the Flatbush line onto those tracks.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by GojiMet86 on Fri Oct 18 10:52:30 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by zac on Fri Oct 18 10:18:59 2019.

My copy of the NYC Subway Track Map book has a little asterisk near the Flatbush station, saying there are plans to put a yard on the Bay Ridge line. Of course, my copy is from 2004 so plans just seemed to have disappeared.


The line from Bensonhurst/Bay Ridge to Jackson Heights deserves service of some type. That would be such a great connection to have.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 18 13:30:44 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by GojiMet86 on Fri Oct 18 10:52:30 2019.

Like restoring the RBB, MTA already owns the ROW Even allowing for the usual graft, it still should be relatively cheap to implement. The problem as usual, is not enough money.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Dan on Fri Oct 18 16:38:49 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by GojiMet86 on Fri Oct 18 10:52:30 2019.

' The line from Bensonhurst/Bay Ridge to Jackson Heights deserves service of some type. That would be such a great connection to have.'

Where's the ridership going to come from?

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Oct 18 17:05:03 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 18 13:30:44 2019.

"MTA already owns the ROW"

If you're referring to the line south of the split in Woodside to Bay Ridge, me thinks its owned not by the MTA but by CSX with trackage rights to the NYAR & the LIRR south of Fresh Pond . Amtrak has nothing to do with the ROW south of Woodside as the article said.
But all that is besides the point. If that line is ever built, itl be our grandkids, maybe even great grandkids amongst the first passengers.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 18 19:05:07 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Dan on Fri Oct 18 16:38:49 2019.

every polace it interfacesw/existing subway routes.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 19 17:53:56 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Dan on Fri Oct 18 16:38:49 2019.

All throughout the route... especially in Brooklyn where there are very little subway lines.
Queens,where no subway now exists... and the Bronx, where it can terminate..or use the Old Putnam branch to North Bronx.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 19 17:58:23 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Oct 18 17:05:03 2019.

Maybe..but that's the beauty of it.
There is Trackage available for use.
We don't have to build new ROWs like with SAS.
A new LRT Division can be built using what we already have.
BQT QNS.. TRIBORO are All just ways to get it done.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Oct 19 20:32:54 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 19 17:53:56 2019.

well said. The whole point of new transit routes is opening up new convenient travel patterns.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 11:12:03 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Dan on Fri Oct 18 16:38:49 2019.

It's not so much that there's a huge unserved demand for Bay Ridge to Jackson Heights (well, maybe there is and it hasn't been uncovered yet), but that there may be several demands which could all use some portion of this service: Bay Ridge to Flatbush, or Ridgewood to Canarsie, or Astoria to Rego Park, etc.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 20 12:14:56 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 19 17:53:56 2019.

Like the Rockawy Beach Branch, it has a north-south orientation that is lacking today.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by 3-9 on Mon Oct 21 07:05:00 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 20 12:14:56 2019.

Well, it is getting a little close to what the G train does, but I otherwise agree.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by 3-9 on Mon Oct 21 07:08:05 2019, in response to The Triboro line - a "wish list" item, posted by BrooklynTrain on Thu Oct 17 20:20:45 2019.

Much as I like the idea of Triboro RX, I wonder how anybody is going to set up stations on the Hells Gate bridge. Since Amtrak owns that, I can't imagine them allowing stations to be built on it, if it's even possible (isn't it a national landmark?).

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 07:17:21 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by 3-9 on Mon Oct 21 07:08:05 2019.

2 tracks are Amtrak and future MN service, 1 is for whoever is running freight. That leaves one trackway left. I don't see how there is room for this.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 21 08:31:46 2019, in response to The Triboro line - a "wish list" item, posted by BrooklynTrain on Thu Oct 17 20:20:45 2019.

It certainly seems like a good idea. Unfortunately, I see little to no chance of it materializing.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 10:56:22 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 07:17:21 2019.

Assuming any new service is heavy rail, the service can use the abandoned trackway (restored) plus share one or both of the 2 existing passenger tracks. With 3 tracks available, there should be plenty of room. MN and Amtrak will hardly fill 2 tracks as it is.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 11:00:04 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 11:12:03 2019.

Of course. And there would be many opportunities for people to connect within the outer bores - now they have to enter Manhattan if they go from Queens to Bronx, for example. Plus new tracks create new development; we all know that. Most major cities overseas have circumferential lines. I'm thinking London, Paris, Moscow, Berlin, Tokyo.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 21 11:08:46 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 11:00:04 2019.

I'm thinking London, Paris, Moscow, Berlin, Tokyo.

I'm only familiar with London and Paris. In neither of those cities is commerce so heavily centered as it is in NY. Neither London nor Paris allows the huge center-city skyscrapers that NYC allows.



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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 11:22:27 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 21 11:08:46 2019.

That may be, but the city is trying to increase density in the outer boros here. And perhaps some of that non-central development in those other cities was spurred by transit expansion.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 11:47:42 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 21 11:08:46 2019.

London does.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 21 11:52:27 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 11:47:42 2019.

I don't think of the Canary Wharf area as the center of the city. Maybe it has become so de facto.



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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by 3-9 on Mon Oct 21 11:58:48 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 10:56:22 2019.

The question is how they intend to build stations on the bridge. The proposal had at least 2.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 12:35:03 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 21 11:52:27 2019.

Iím referring to the City of London.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 12:58:30 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 12:35:03 2019.

Isn't that also known as the "Bank" area ?

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Q4 on Mon Oct 21 13:32:03 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 10:56:22 2019.

Wouldn't they need an FRA waiver in order to share tracks with MNR and Amtrak otherwise NYCT would have to come under FRA jurisdiction?

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 14:01:01 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 12:58:30 2019.

No. There are more stations in the City than just ďBank.Ē

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 21 14:12:29 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 12:35:03 2019.

Geez, the City of London allows buildings taller than St. Pauls's now?


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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by 3-9 on Mon Oct 21 14:39:39 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Q4 on Mon Oct 21 13:32:03 2019.

Not if Triboro RX was also under FRA jurisdiction.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Oct 21 14:53:37 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 21 14:12:29 2019.

the City of London allows buildings taller than St. Pauls's now?

At least since 1967.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_London

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 21 15:37:44 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 11:22:27 2019.

Yes.

New York has more than one CBD.
Downtown Brooklyn has grown at a rapid rate in just 20 year's time.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 21 16:35:56 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 21 15:37:44 2019.

the more accuirate term would be recovered. In the 60s downtown Brooklyn was a major CBD.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 16:39:00 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 21 16:35:56 2019.

Dating from when Brooklyn was its own city.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 21 16:47:35 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 21 16:35:56 2019.

True.
Municipal seat and all.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 17:41:56 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by 3-9 on Mon Oct 21 14:39:39 2019.

Right. It could be run by LIRR or MNRR.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 17:43:05 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by 3-9 on Mon Oct 21 11:58:48 2019.

The latest proposal I saw got rid of the proposed Astoria station at Ditmars, for technical unfeasibility. I don't know what the second one was.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 17:44:55 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 17:43:05 2019.

There's a hell of vertical separation.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Q4 on Mon Oct 21 17:51:16 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 17:41:56 2019.

Plans that I reviewed was for NYCT service so my comment was based on that. I agree that you are both correct if it is run by LIRR or MNR which would make it under FRA.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 17:53:54 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 17:44:55 2019.

Thatís certainly the major part of the technical infeasibility.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 17:57:51 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 21 16:35:56 2019.

LIC is becoming CBD #4.

Also now the 7 train reminds me of the Chicago Loop.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 21 18:00:37 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 17:44:55 2019.

It would have worked if the station used Ditmars N platforms(direct transfer) and station house for

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 21 18:01:31 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 17:44:55 2019.

It would have worked if the station used Ditmars N platforms(direct transfer) and station house for entrance/exit.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 21 18:01:56 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 16:39:00 2019.

yes. A&S, Gage & Tollner...

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 21 18:14:40 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 21 18:01:31 2019.

doubt the vertical dimension is any more than the elevator at Fort Tryon Park or Metro at Dupont Circle.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 18:15:38 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 21 18:14:40 2019.

Underground is different.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 21 18:15:49 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 17:57:51 2019.

+1

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 21 18:16:56 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 21 18:15:38 2019.

I am aware of that; but my comment on the dimension stands.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 19:12:15 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 21 18:00:37 2019.

It means having a very tall and narrow building with elevator shafts and some stairs that zig-zag. Maybe a fat Washington Monument.

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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 21 19:22:20 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Oct 21 14:53:37 2019.

Almost none of these are in the City of London.

This is street view from London Bridge. Only 3 seem to be in the City.



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Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 21 19:29:47 2019, in response to Re: The Triboro line - a ''wish list'' item, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 21 19:12:15 2019.

well, the issue is convenience.

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