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GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 20:17:57 2019 Went to Altoona last weekend & stopped by the Museum. Nice & well maintained & interesting railfan outpost & a worthwhile trip for any train geek and his/her kids.However, took a stroll to the back Yd by the old roundhouse and turntable & saw much equiptment just sitting there, rusting away like old rusting car wrecks spotted down the Hunts Pt.Ave auto graveyards. What was painful for me to see was this old GG1 losing its battle to oxidation. Just a damn shame.   This picture says it all with the weeds creeping up to show the losing battle.  |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Oct 8 07:34:59 2019, in response to GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 20:17:57 2019. 
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by chuchubob on Tue Oct 8 09:11:52 2019, in response to GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 20:17:57 2019. Also the famous 4876 at the B&O Museum, photographed in October 2014. 
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Oct 8 14:05:20 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by chuchubob on Tue Oct 8 09:11:52 2019. Ugh, it looks like it's been heavily vandalized. Are there any plans to restore it? |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Tue Oct 8 14:11:52 2019, in response to GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 20:17:57 2019. AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWOH MAN HORRIBLE TO SEE |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by chuchubob on Tue Oct 8 14:38:02 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by 3-9 on Tue Oct 8 14:05:20 2019. I don't think so. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 8 16:07:01 2019, in response to GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 20:17:57 2019. Sad looking engines😩 |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:26:56 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by chuchubob on Tue Oct 8 14:38:02 2019. It would be nice, but it would probably be prohibitively expensive to restore. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 8 16:48:54 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:26:56 2019. That’s what I was thinking,also! |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Oct 8 16:54:37 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 8 16:07:01 2019. This one is in the backyard of the Museum in Strasburg Pa. Pic taken last month. This old warrior in well on its way to rust city. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by murray1575 on Tue Oct 8 17:54:30 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by chuchubob on Tue Oct 8 09:11:52 2019. That 4876 has had a hard life. That is the GG1 which crashed through the floor of Washington Union Station in January 1953 just before Dwight Eisenhower's inauguration after the brakes failed on the consist it was pulling causing it to crash through the buffer stop. Fortunately the engineer sounded his horn to warn of the runaway and no one was killed. The GG1 was cut into sections and sent to Altoona to be rebuilt and it served the PRR for many more years. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by chuchubob on Tue Oct 8 22:36:20 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Oct 8 16:54:37 2019. 4800 on Sept 27
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Wed Oct 9 01:25:07 2019, in response to GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 20:17:57 2019. I take it that any and all remaining GG-1's have had their transformers, electrical components and traction motors removed ( all that copper cannot go to waste )so none of them are in operational condition - would it be a problem if one was operational for say, a museum or some such thing ? |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Bill West on Wed Oct 9 02:59:30 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by jailhousedoc on Wed Oct 9 01:25:07 2019. 3-9, I think the visual damage is just rust through, not vandalism.Jailhouse, reviving a GG1 has been discussed at Railroad.Net more than once. The transformers and attached contactors were removed because of PCB but the survivors are otherwise intact. The other physical issue is that the frames have cracks that resisted repair efforts. Bill |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Wed Oct 9 05:45:31 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Bill West on Wed Oct 9 02:59:30 2019. Thanks for telling me about that. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Oct 9 07:37:45 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Bill West on Wed Oct 9 02:59:30 2019. I'm just basing it on the fact that the windows and at least 1 door appear to have been knocked out. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Oct 9 07:39:26 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Bill West on Wed Oct 9 02:59:30 2019. What caused the cracks in the frames? Decades of wear and tear? How severe? |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Bill West on Wed Oct 9 13:04:49 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by 3-9 on Wed Oct 9 07:39:26 2019. It sounds like it was just fatigue. Near 50 years of 90mph running on a big casting. Similar New Haven units only ran for 20-30 years at 70mph. There was picture around that showed a steel plug welded into the access holes around the journal pedestals to counter the cracks. If the pedestals were the limiting part of the design then you've got 12 places on each loco for the end of life to start showing up. By contrast, if EMD's diesel truck had a limiting design point like this, the fact that they continued to make new locos for decades gave them the opportunity to catch up those limitations in the design.Bill |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 9 17:50:20 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Bill West on Wed Oct 9 02:59:30 2019. If the money could be found (doubtful) the internal workings of the engine could probably be restored with the asbestos and PCB replaced with more environmentally friendly components. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 10 08:47:32 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 9 17:50:20 2019. The RR Museum in Strasburg let a Pennsy MP54 rot away and ooze asbestos until they finally cut it up 10 or 15 years ago.LIRR had an arch roof MP54 used for de-icing until the 1980's. They eventually offered it to one of the LI RR museum entities, but they refused it because there was a gash in its side oozing asbestos. With the scrapping of the 4900 in Watermill about 10 years ago, the LIRR arch roof MP54 is now extinct. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Oct 10 12:47:37 2019, in response to GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 20:17:57 2019. Even when you leave the bigger musuems of the northeast, the entire country has equipment rotting away in nearly every city and small town.Almost every museum I go to feels like a graveyard. I wonder why they can't be tarpped or have a roof put over them? This one here actually had a roof to cover at least a few pieces.  |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Oct 10 13:01:01 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Oct 10 12:47:37 2019. $$$$$$$$$$$ |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Oct 10 13:21:06 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Oct 10 13:01:01 2019. I wish some pieces would at least get a blue tarp. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Oct 10 13:45:43 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Oct 10 13:21:06 2019. indeed. Illinois Railway Museum has a large "backlot" of rust buckets. They have a simple but realistic way of deciding what gets put indoors--entailed donations. When enough $$ are donated to preserve a sppecific item it gets a berth. That said, the deficit at ALL museums is huge. Literally we need several billion $$ to house , de-rust, halt rot. The money isn't there. We are extremely lucky that NYC, SF, and recently CTA have stepped up with historic programs.The museum for the DC area suffered both arson early on and a freak fire more recently, losing most of the actual DC area pieces (Fire damaged cars were scrapped rather than restored) |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Oct 10 14:16:04 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Oct 10 13:45:43 2019. The Illinois Railway Museum fortunately put their GG1 in a barn. I took this picture a couple of months ago when I went up to Chicago to meet CMM and chase the Big Boy: |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Oct 10 15:21:02 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Dave on Thu Oct 10 14:16:04 2019. NICE !!GOOD SHOW |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Oct 10 15:21:17 2019, in response to GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 20:17:57 2019. PLEASE RESTORE HER |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Oct 10 17:35:40 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Oct 10 15:21:02 2019. Thanks! I tell you what, save up your dimes and make a visit one day to IRM. It's well worth it. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Oct 10 17:49:25 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Dave on Thu Oct 10 17:35:40 2019. Savannah has a roundhouse with a bunch of pieces in it, so they're fortunate enough to have an already existing roof.I don't have a good picture, but I have seen a structure of just I-beams and a metal roof, no walls. Actually that, and a larger open like barn in Georgia as well. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by kp5308 on Thu Oct 10 18:16:39 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Oct 10 17:49:25 2019. The Reading Railroad Heritage Museum is in the process of putting up a structure to protect some of our equipment. We have run into site issues that have raised the cost by about 30 percent. We are fortunate that we have membership that is willing to loan the Society the cash to cover this at no interest. The possibility exists that some of these museums raise funds for structures but when the site is inspected or other costs are not properly calculated price tag becomes prohibitive. This is what happened to the URHS down in Tuckahoe NJ. The building is on site in pieces along with 2 20' containers of parts. They don't have the funds to prep the site & erect the shell, much less outfit it with the basics to house equipment. I don't know the particulars of what went wrong but I do know a group can do their homework & still run into problems. Railroad equipment restoration is a tough deal in a lot of ways. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Oct 10 19:18:19 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by kp5308 on Thu Oct 10 18:16:39 2019. Although I bet everyone here knows what's out there, two examples.And I really should post some of these pictures: Alabama:   Georgia: Outside Atlanta. I'd totally recommend this place, the inside building scene was awesome: Buses and Trains which I'm sure costs more since there's a concrete pad 
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Oct 10 19:54:28 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Oct 10 15:21:17 2019. If I had the $$$ I would. I don't know what balls I need to win the big bucks to complete the restoration. Maybe power, maybe mega, maybe both. Now if I win the pair of balls, that GG-1 is mine!:) |
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Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Oct 10 20:18:25 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Oct 10 19:54:28 2019. ME TOOIAWTP |
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Posted by kp5308 on Thu Oct 10 20:25:03 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Oct 10 19:18:19 2019. That is all well & good but do you have an estimate of how much those sheds cost & how they were paid for? All appear to have no electric or plumbing so how about this: where was the equipment that is now undercover restored? We are doing our restorations outside at present. None of the current projects were started until we had a good amount of cash to actually protect what we work so hard to bring back from the grave. All this takes at least a healthy six figures to do and I don't think that is taken into account when the dream is contemplated. There is plenty of evidence besides the GG1 at the beginning of this thread to support this view.This will be going in the new building. MP&RE members started working on it when the contract for the structure location was agreed upon 2 YEARS AGO:  We did some cosmetic work around the same time to raise awareness of protecting what we consider important pieces of Reading equipment. The U-Boat & GP7 were cosmetically restored & the 5308 (the last operational ALCO C630 left) was partially repainted. That was also 2 years ago. None of this would have been done if we didn't have a plan to get them out of the elements FIRST. We lost a lot of restoration talent when we had to leave the Hall because who wants to waste time:  Now if the group doesn't OWN the property & the building THIS:  Can turn into THIS real fast:  |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by zac on Thu Oct 10 20:32:32 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by kp5308 on Thu Oct 10 20:25:03 2019. Unfortunately it comes down to a basic fact, trains are BIG! |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Oct 10 20:34:07 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Oct 10 12:47:37 2019. Hundreds or even thousands of disused airliners and military aircraft are stored at airfields in Arizona. The very dry climate staves off deterioration. I'm sure there are sidings in the area that can be used as temporary storage while railway museums work on building storage structures. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Oct 10 20:57:17 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Oct 10 20:34:07 2019. And BNSF and UP would "donate" the storage? Buffet, maybe, the UP folks, not a chance. |
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Posted by kp5308 on Thu Oct 10 20:59:45 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by zac on Thu Oct 10 20:32:32 2019. For us it came down to priorities. When we went looking for a new home it was suggested by a professional museum consultant that our immediate objective was to secure our extensive archives and artifacts collection which were stored in locations all over Berks County PA. The decision was a tough one but since our archives go back as far as 1835 (I think) I understand the rational. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by kp5308 on Thu Oct 10 21:07:21 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Oct 10 20:57:17 2019. You would stand a better chance with CSX. Reading Tech just received this GP39-2 as a donation...ex RDG #3412: The carrier has been quite generous lately. Kentucky Steam Train Association got a shop building plus an SW1500 for a shop switcher! |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Oct 10 21:11:45 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Oct 10 20:34:07 2019. That's if the railway museums had the funds and volunteers to build said storage structures. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu Oct 10 21:15:55 2019, in response to GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 20:17:57 2019. By coincidence, I was there on the 25th of September and saw and felt the same thing. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by kp5308 on Thu Oct 10 21:51:07 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Oct 10 21:11:45 2019. In this day & age I would be surprised if volunteers would be allowed by the local building codes department, particularly for a structure that size. Then there is the issue of insurance on the building and all the documentation on the construction (including who actually raised the framework) that goes along with it. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Oct 10 21:52:34 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by kp5308 on Thu Oct 10 21:51:07 2019. I can't disagree. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 11 01:01:59 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by kp5308 on Thu Oct 10 21:07:21 2019. which (pleasantly) surprised me. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by kp5308 on Fri Oct 11 15:59:43 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 11 01:01:59 2019. We may not be done with CSX yet. We at RCT&HS are ALWAYS on the prowl.... |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 11 17:19:36 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by kp5308 on Thu Oct 10 21:51:07 2019. Then how are volunteer allowed in any sort of building since many other types of building pose some sort of risk? |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by kp5308 on Fri Oct 11 18:05:03 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 11 17:19:36 2019. I don't quite understand what you are asking...can you elaborate? |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Oct 11 21:20:54 2019, in response to GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 20:17:57 2019. DD1 3937 from the Strasburg back yard. Too bad they can't resurrect one of these bad boys for a fan trip or two. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by kp5308 on Sat Oct 12 10:32:32 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Oct 11 21:20:54 2019. IIRC both would need to be done. They are a bride & groom set with a drawbar. I don't know if they can be operated independent of each other outside of short shop hostler moves. |
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Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Oct 12 14:57:25 2019, in response to Re: GG1 Sadly going back to Nature, posted by kp5308 on Sat Oct 12 10:32:32 2019. Yes. I meant that the two would run together as one DD1. I never heard of or saw at any time one half of a DD1 running anywhere. |
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