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| Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works (1524058) | |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 20 12:10:29 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 19 19:01:09 2019. That makes sense, thank you.But the perfect is the enemy of the good. I can understand lamenting the loss of the Congress L and its replacement by the current Congress/Forest Park line, but median transit to new areas sure beats nothing. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 20 12:13:35 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Sep 20 11:37:10 2019. That wasn't a coincidence, it was ironic. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 20 12:14:09 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Sep 20 11:50:30 2019. IAWTP |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 20 12:16:53 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by 3-9 on Fri Sep 20 05:05:17 2019. That is speculation. Look at Brooklyn Heights. The BQE actually improved the neighborhood (thanks to the promenade). I'm not sure what public amenity the LoMex could have provided, but removing traffic from street level is something. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 12:49:36 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 20 12:10:29 2019. The way the project worker, a large swath of older buildings were erased (communities abolished), and an un needed IMHO expressway built to encourage auto comuting to the Loop. As "urban renewal" this, too, was destructive social engineering which has taken years to recover from. In the bargain the Chicago, Aurora, & Elgin was destroyed reducing transit service and pushing more auto usage. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Sep 20 12:52:57 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by randyo on Thu Sep 19 16:26:12 2019. I grew up in a 2-fare zone, having lived in Kew Gardens Hills from 1970 to 2000. The advent of the MetroCard and the elimination of the 2-fare zone was nothing short of amazing. Too bad my dad didn't live to see it. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 12:57:32 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 20 12:07:12 2019. Decreasing housing stock by building Lomex would have exacerbated the unaffordability of Manhattan. When I lived on 7th between A and B 66-70, I could actually squeak by working in bookstores. Comfortable? well off? no, but enough disposable income to afford art films and concerts--which is to say, the culture which cities foster. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Sep 20 13:00:41 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 20 12:16:53 2019. LoMex would have sunken a huge trench within Delaney St...cut a swath across lower Manhattan, transitioning to a elevated road..to access the Manhattan. Bridge and Holland Tunnel..Out of all the work done,the only visible portion is the vaccant lots on the south side of Delaney St...and the road extension on the Manhattan Bridge. The tunnel that stopped the Christie St subway construction is under Broome St.. still unusable. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 13:00:44 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Sep 20 12:52:57 2019. My years on Tompkins Sq Pk, likewise--either a bus fare or a longish walk to whichever subway. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Sep 20 13:07:43 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Sep 18 11:30:38 2019. Thanks for the suggestion. I just did with a few slight modifications so it reads better. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Sep 20 14:18:07 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Edwards! on Fri Sep 20 13:00:41 2019. I will say this about you. You certainly are a walking encyclopedia of the New York Subway. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Sep 20 14:33:07 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 13:00:44 2019. I lived a little over a mile east of the Union Turnpike station. Not a terribly long walk but very hilly. I did it several times in my youth. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 15:29:20 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Sep 20 14:33:07 2019. I have always enjoyed walking, but when either burdened by a full backpack, or as my 75yr old knees remind me I am overweight,less happily.While in SF, BART is semi fare integrated, in the East Bay, BART does noone any favors neither transfers nor passes. . |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Sep 20 16:44:53 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Sep 20 13:07:43 2019. Good for you! Did they print it yet? |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Sep 20 16:53:04 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Edwards! on Fri Sep 20 13:00:41 2019. LoMex would have sunken a huge trench within Delaney St...cut a swath across lower Manhattan, transitioning to a elevated roadThat trench, but especially the elevated portion, is what I meant about damaging the area. A highway is pretty bleak to be the most prominent feature in the neighborhood. Brooklyn Heights got away with it because the highway is way below the Heights, and the view of Lower Manhattan is much more prominent. I remember hearing that it was another area where Moses didn't quite get his way. Out of all the work done,the only visible portion is the vaccant lots on the south side of Delaney St...and the road extension on the Manhattan Bridge. Just an FYI - those lots ain't empty any more. Essex Crossing (or whatever they're calling it) filled or is filling every one of those empty lots. The entire section is pretty much unrecognizable now, including where Essex Market used to be, on the south side. I heard the buildings were demolished due to urban renewal. I didn't see any articles which attributed it to LoMex. Sheldon Silver and a Jewish lobby made sure those lots stayed empty until Silver was thrown in jail. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Sep 20 16:53:47 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Sep 20 11:37:10 2019. Yeah |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 17:02:34 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Sep 19 17:07:57 2019. I remember that night. I was coming back from a gig in NJ and came through the Holland Tunnel intending to take the West Side Hwy home to Was Hgts. As I turned from Canal St to get under the Hwy I looked down the block and saw what looked to me to be an upside down truck in the street beneath the roadway and the street was blocked off. I turned on the radio traffic report and learned that the roadway had collapsed and a truck fell through causing the hwy to be closed. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Sep 20 17:03:27 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Fri Sep 20 07:57:54 2019. Which didn't make much sense.Same land fill built up the shoreline of Manhattan... created Battery Park City... Battery Park itself..land used for the FDR. The trade off,mass transit..that didn't happen. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 17:05:07 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 19 16:51:30 2019. 7 Av was punched through for the building of the lower 7 Av IRT subway the same way that 6 Av was punched through from W 3 St to Canal for the IND subway a few years later. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 17:07:49 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Edwards! on Fri Sep 20 13:00:41 2019. I never heard about any tuunel stopping Chrystie St subway construction. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Sep 20 17:24:31 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by 3-9 on Fri Sep 20 16:53:04 2019. Yup.They were part of the same con job that cleared out the land between Allen St and Chrystie St. The land was cleared for the expressway/subway tunnels. The LoMex tunnel was built,along side the only portion of the SAS to be constructed..but nothing else. The giant hole in Delancy St would have relocated the subway, ripped an entire sections of blocks on top of city block ..not to mention the absolutely HORRIBLE wall of Towers flanking the Williamsburg Bridge...and along the entire project. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Sep 20 17:34:45 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 17:07:49 2019. It was interrupted by Moses's auto tunnel under Broome and Chrystie.. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 17:35:25 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 12:49:36 2019. From what I have read, the problem with the CA&E was that in order to access its Wells St terminal, part of the original el structure would have had to be retained and a ramp built from the median to the structure which is something one of the local politicians didn't want. However despite the local objections, a ramp had to be built anyhow to connect the subway to the Douglas branch which isn’t even used anymore. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 17:38:36 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 15:29:20 2019. That’s the problem wit trying to establish a large regional transportation system. Nobody does their homework to look at the disadvantages. When any large rapid transit network is planned, legislation should be passed to ensure a completely seamless system for the absolute convenience of the passengers. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 17:40:26 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 13:00:44 2019. When my mother lived near Tompkins Sq Pk, her walk was to the 2 Av el which was on 1 Av at that location. After it was torn down, the walk was to the 3 Av el. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 20 17:51:18 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 17:35:25 2019. My understanding is the CA&E would have used the current Blue Line and Dearborn Subway (for which there is a tunnel Portal at its south end for the extra CA&E tracks), and terminated at the first stop on the Humboldt Park Branch, beyond which that branch would have still been demolished. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 20 17:57:09 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Fri Sep 20 07:57:54 2019. There were plans to use the embankment of the Lackawanna Cutoff in western NJ to use as landfill for Westway. Basically, one destructive project to support a bad highway project. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 18:10:47 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 20 17:51:18 2019. You are indeed correct that there were two extra portals where the (now Blue) line leaves the median to meet the previously built tunnel. As to running to the Humboldt, never heard that before, but altogether a possible plan. Chicago was indeed a victim of anti elevated disease.The good news backgound of disuse of the ramp to the Douglas Park branch is that Blue Line ridership needed tighter headways to the west, so the Pink Line was invented. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 18:12:51 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 17:38:36 2019. part of the problem is the lame fantasy that transit shouldn't need subsidy which drives high fares. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 18:16:28 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 17:40:26 2019. right. in my time there 66-70, I headed to 1st & Houston if I wanted the IND, Astor Place for east side, 8th Broadway to change at T Sq for UWS (Thalia or New Yorker theaters for films), During a brief winter on 11th btwn B& C 1st and 14th, then transfer... |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 20 18:21:34 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Sep 20 03:05:15 2019. Probably uileann pipes although historically, the larger pipes often called “warpipes” are actually Irish in origin. There is a story that the Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scots as a joke but the Scots haven’t gotten the joke yet. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Sep 20 18:23:35 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by randyo on Wed Sep 18 18:14:15 2019. Isn't the deck of the Verrazzano too curved (too sharp grades heading toward the midpoint) for rail service? Of course, Moses had it built that way on purpose, or at least that's what I heard. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Sep 20 18:52:34 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Sep 20 18:23:35 2019. Isn't the deck of the Verrazzano too curved (too sharp grades heading toward the midpoint) for rail service?The grade of the railroad doesn't have to be the grade of road surface. The tracks can take a longer distance to come back down to earth at the two ends. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Sep 20 20:04:58 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by AlM on Fri Sep 20 18:52:34 2019. How? Certainly not if you want it to fit on a lower deck. It would be difficult even on (or above) the top deck. I also thought of having the tracks below the road deck, forming a chord across the arc of the road deck, but that would be very difficult too, probably impossible. The bridge probably could not support the structures needed to support flat tracks in either configuration. And Robert Moses probably made sure it couldn't. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Sep 20 20:35:19 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Sep 20 20:04:58 2019. Look at the subway tracks on the WillyB. The grades are sloping & not as intense as the roadway on either side. Point being, if they wanted subway tracks on the VZ bridge, It could have been done. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Sep 20 20:43:43 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Sep 20 20:04:58 2019. Obviously it doesn't work with the lower deck. But why not above the upper deck? You might need to be elevated a long way into Brooklyn and SI, of course. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 20 21:21:25 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Sep 20 12:57:32 2019. A lot of areas of NYC have re-gentrified to the point most of us can't afford to buy or rent there, that has nothing to do with not building a highway. No reason to blame Lomax for Greenwich Village's ascent. A lot of the GLBTQ folks and small businesses that were forced out of there went to Chelsea, but now have been priced out of that and have either scattered, or moved to Hell's Kitchen. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Sep 20 23:37:57 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Sep 20 20:35:19 2019. 1600 feet vs 4200 feet? |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 21 00:22:09 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Edwards! on Fri Sep 20 17:34:45 2019. No. It was built simultaneously. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 21 00:22:31 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Sep 20 14:18:07 2019. No. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Sep 21 04:05:46 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Sep 18 11:30:38 2019. No. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 21 12:41:33 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Sep 21 04:05:46 2019. Why not? |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 21 19:13:06 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 21 00:22:09 2019. I believe this is more accurate. It was another small provision, much like the upper level of Roosevelt Ave or the S 4 St and Utica Avenue shells. Unfortunately, like those, it may never see use, though including it while other work was being done was lots easier that a retrofit. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 21 20:49:34 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 21 19:13:06 2019. Just like the Nassau connection at Chrystie St.No lower SAS,so the provision is useless. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Sep 21 22:00:11 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Sep 21 04:05:46 2019. Why not? |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 21 23:57:34 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Sep 21 22:00:11 2019. Because he doesn't like dissent. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Sep 22 00:28:36 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 21 23:57:34 2019. Ok. I hope he responds to one of us. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Sep 22 07:14:15 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by 3-9 on Wed Sep 18 17:19:31 2019. The pediatric ward at Columbia-Presbyterian is now called Morgan Stanley Children's Hospital.Morgan. Stanley. Some things just shouldn't be named for corporations... |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 22 07:21:44 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Sep 22 07:14:15 2019. Money talks, literally. |
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Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 22 12:15:09 2019, in response to Re: NY Daily News: Robert Moses’ Name Should Be Removed from Public Works, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Sep 22 07:14:15 2019. So what? |
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