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| (1520767) | |
new "elmont" station? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 14:06:57 2019 sorry if this has already been discussed. missed the thread. but i'm not sure of the particulars here. direct train service from east and west on the mainline or shuttle bus service? |
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| (1520773) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 14:56:41 2019, in response to new "elmont" station?, posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 14:06:57 2019. Both, direct rail service to the station, bus service across the property to where people (other than commuter parkers) will need to ho. |
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| (1520774) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 15:01:30 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 14:56:41 2019. so, you'd be able to take a train from ronkknkoma or mineola directly into the new facilities? |
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| (1520775) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 15:30:11 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 15:01:30 2019. I believe that is the intent, but I'm not sure. The idea is to have a station on the main so it can be reached from either direction without a reverse move or backtrack to Jamaica. Adding a park and ride placates the communities a bit (they hope) since the 2 stations in the vicinity are very short of parking. |
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| (1520782) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 16:52:09 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 15:30:11 2019. just wondering, looks like there is a westbound track leading to the belmont station already, from the hempstead branch. |
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| (1520786) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 17:42:31 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 16:52:09 2019. There is a station at Belmont but it requires a user to go back to Jamaica and change if you want to go East. It is used for race service. |
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| (1520789) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by lirr42 on Fri Aug 9 18:30:27 2019, in response to new "elmont" station?, posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 14:06:57 2019. The intent of the new station is to serve both westbound and eastbound trains (Hempstead Branch at all times, additional trains to/from Ronkonkoma, Huntington, and Port Jefferson before and after events): New Main Line Station for Belmont ParkIt's important to note that there will be two phases, though. The first phase involves the construction of only an 8-car eastbound platform on the south side of the tracks. That phase will be ready for opening day of the arena in 2021. The second phase (12-car westbound platform and a 4-car extension of the eastbound platform) will not be be available until after the Main Line Grade Crossing Elimination project and East Side Access are completed. The LIRR will also continue to use the spur station for two Jamaica-BRT round-trips on event days only, so after events you will need to know the difference between "Belmont" and "Elmont" to catch the right train. The Belmont Spur already exists (and was upgraded at the cost of $4.26 million in 2015), and has an east leg of the wye for direct trains to/from points east. There used to be a switch that allowed a train exiting Belmont Park to the east to reach any Main Line or Hempstead Branch track. The LIRR relocated that switch in 2009 as part of the QUEENS Interlocking renewal project, but it would not be difficult to add it back (or incorporate something into the Main Line Grade Crossing Elimination Project). $104 million is a lot of money to spend on a new station when they could instead better use the infrastructure they have now. |
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| (1520790) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 18:52:50 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by lirr42 on Fri Aug 9 18:30:27 2019. How much of that money is theirs versus squeezed from the developers. |
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| (1520794) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 9 19:09:29 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by lirr42 on Fri Aug 9 18:30:27 2019. In 20 years, not a single diesel line platform has been lengthened, and there are plenty that hold 1 or 2 cars, to say nothing of the West Hempstead Branch with a minimum rush hour trains of 6 cars and all platforms are 4 cars. Westwood and Malverne could easily be extended.LIRR does not care about regular service or dwell times, only blowing lots of capital money for special events. |
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| (1520803) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 20:10:48 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 17:42:31 2019. just read that "electric shuttle buses" will run from elmont into the park.yet, from what i read, the existing belmont park station will be upgraded: These upgrades will allow trains leaving the spur after an event to serve stations both east and west of belmont — providing another post-event public transit option for attendees." |
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| (1520804) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 20:36:36 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 20:10:48 2019. They have to run the buses from that side anyway, its where a large chunk of the parking is. I still get the impression the station is all about quelling community opposition, it gives the area much more station parking for commuting. |
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| (1520806) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 21:28:04 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 20:36:36 2019. belmont racetrack is NOT a good spot for a whole new public transit-accessable enterprise like what's planned. the cross island parkway is at crush levels already; the thought of tens of thousands of people all using it from this place at the same time boggles the mind. hempstead turnpike is definitely not equipped to handle those crowds either. it does have decent bus service...but hardly anyone who would attend events there would be inclined to use those buses. and the main line is already heavily used by trains now and even with the third track this is gonna add a hell of a lot more congestion on the rails.i don't get it. |
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| (1520809) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 21:46:48 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 21:28:04 2019. What you say is probably true. On the other hand it doesn't matter since the project is approved and it is unlikely to be stopped. |
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| (1520812) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 22:01:32 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 21:46:48 2019. right. the nassau coliseum area...served by a decent light rail system connecting to, say, mineola or even freeport would be way better.in my humble opinion, obviously. |
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| (1520838) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Aug 10 08:36:23 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 22:01:32 2019. Right. the nassau coliseum area...served by a decent light rail system connecting to, say, Mineola and Freeport would be way better. |
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| (1520840) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 10 09:35:34 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 22:01:32 2019. An unrealistic railfan dream.HOWEVER, a branch to the Mitchell Field Secondary could totally have worked for Nassau Coliseum. And since they're building a new arena anyway, they could have easily torn down the Coliseum and built a new one on site. |
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| (1520857) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Pragmatist on Sat Aug 10 14:41:35 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 10 09:35:34 2019. Except that Nassau taxpayers didn't want to pay for it.....They also didn't support a giveaway land grab at the the time. |
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| (1520875) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 10 18:52:34 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Pragmatist on Sat Aug 10 14:41:35 2019. But the new arena is still in Nassau.Or is it because this time it's all the state's doing? |
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| (1520878) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Aug 10 20:59:30 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Pragmatist on Sat Aug 10 14:41:35 2019. This is on land controlled by the State, and Nassau taxpayers were not asked to foot the bill for the arena. At the other location, they tried to give away development rights worth far more than the cost of rebuilding the Coliseum, and failing that wanted Nassau taxpayers to foot the bill for an arena far bigger than the county needed. They voted against it. |
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| (1520880) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 10 21:25:56 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by pragmatist on Sat Aug 10 20:59:30 2019. Fucking stupid all around. |
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| (1520920) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by lirr42 on Sun Aug 11 19:34:38 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 9 18:52:50 2019. The arena developers will be putting up $30 million out of the $104 million for the LIRR upgrades (leaving a balance of $74 million).The taxpayers will finance the rest. NYAP will repay $67 million of the $74 million balance over the course of 30 years after the arena opens. |
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| (1521041) | |
Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 13 12:33:18 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by ntrainride on Fri Aug 9 20:10:48 2019. What is really needed there is this:1. A Flyover that allows trains coming from points east to go over the existing tracks and more easily access the existing station. 2. A rebuild of the existing bridge to the Belmont Park Station to two tracks. This will allow for more frequent service and also allow that station to be a park-and-ride for commuters when there aren't major events going on. |
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| (1521043) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 13 12:36:36 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 10 21:25:56 2019. Well, without that new arena, the Islanders are by now in Kansas City. |
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| (1521044) | |
Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Aug 13 12:36:38 2019, in response to Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 13 12:33:18 2019. bridge has been 2 tracks since it was built.get with the program,kid. |
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| (1521045) | |
Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 13 12:38:33 2019, in response to Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Aug 13 12:36:38 2019. Bridge as I remember has always been ONE track, not two (unless they rebuilt it in the last 10-12 years). I remember that because I used to ride the LIRR out to Belmont that way for years. |
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| (1521047) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 13 12:43:28 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 13 12:36:36 2019. Not the point. The point is that they couldn't have built the new arena at the Coliseum site due to politics. |
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| (1521048) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Q4 on Tue Aug 13 13:06:09 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 9 19:09:29 2019. The new station, along with the Arena, is the Governor's baby, the LIRR has to go along for the ride. If not, they would have just left the improvements made a the Belmont station and moved on. |
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| (1521049) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Q4 on Tue Aug 13 13:08:15 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 9 19:09:29 2019. The Elmont Station, the new Arena and the development around it at Belmont is Governor Cuomo's baby. The LIRR has to go along for the ride. |
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| (1521052) | |
Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Aug 13 13:37:17 2019, in response to Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 13 12:38:33 2019. I,ve benn "buffing" in the yard for over 20 years,always was 2 track. |
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Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 13 13:47:00 2019, in response to Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 13 12:38:33 2019. You're partially right as I did look at it on satellite. Most of the bridge is two tracks, but there is a small stretch where only one track is usable near the station.I would re-do it where both tracks are usable to the station and do major improvements as noted. |
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| (1521054) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Tue Aug 13 14:01:30 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 10 09:35:34 2019. Except there is and will never be public transport to the Nassau Coliseum. |
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| (1521056) | |
Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 13 14:10:24 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by MATHA531 on Tue Aug 13 14:01:30 2019. Mitchel Field Secondary. |
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Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Aug 13 18:58:05 2019, in response to Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 13 12:33:18 2019. I think they need a flyover from the east and another one to the west, like this
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Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 13 20:43:12 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 13 12:43:28 2019. Nassau collesium site made much more sense. But yes politics. |
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Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Aug 14 00:23:23 2019, in response to Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Aug 13 18:58:05 2019. Exactly what I was thinking! |
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Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Wed Aug 14 03:06:04 2019, in response to Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Aug 13 18:58:05 2019. Good idea. |
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Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Aug 14 05:29:14 2019, in response to Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Aug 13 12:33:18 2019. The issue is that it would still be special trains. The new station would allow any train going by to stop. |
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Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by K. Trout on Wed Aug 14 07:21:47 2019, in response to Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Aug 13 18:58:05 2019. I'd rather make the Hempstead branch a flyover, since it gets used much more frequently, then the remaining at-grade tracks can be used from both the main line and Hempstead to access Belmont. |
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Re: new ''elmont'' station? |
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Posted by Q4 on Wed Aug 14 10:44:57 2019, in response to Re: new ''elmont'' station?, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Aug 13 20:43:12 2019. Politics and Nimby |
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Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by lirr42 on Wed Aug 14 20:55:13 2019, in response to Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by K. Trout on Wed Aug 14 07:21:47 2019. Yes, a Hempstead Branch flyover at QUEENS would be much more worthwhile. We would gain a lot more from a grade separated junction for Hempstead trains than a east leg flyover We can get a little of both worlds, though...if the westbound Hempstead Branch track raises up and over the two Main Line 'express' tracks, one could probably hook in a west leg flyover from Belmont Park. That would allow eastbound and westbound trains to enter and exit Belmont Park conflict-free, as well as the Hempstead Branch.Something like this... (you can see a full-size version here) 
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Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction |
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Posted by K. Trout on Thu Aug 15 11:37:25 2019, in response to Re: Belmont Park Station/Junction, posted by lirr42 on Wed Aug 14 20:55:13 2019. That makes a lot of sense. I was imagining something more elaborate with two tracks like the Montauk flyover, but this is a very reasonable plan.The nice thing about this proposal is that the C1 track flyover is useful today, and it would be easy to build it to allow for the CW track connection to be added at a later time, depending on demand. |
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