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VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Feb 6 17:24:33 2019

https://www.rtands.com/passenger/rapid-transit-light-rail/vhb-lands-contract-for-environmental-review-of-proposed-brooklyn-queens-connector/

VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

February 06, 2019

Written by Paul Conley, Editor-in-Chief



A proposal to build the Brooklyn Queens Connector, a streetcar line linking the New York City boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens, took a step toward reality today as the city’s Economic Development Corporation approved a key contract.

VHB Engineering, Surveying, Landscape Architecture and Geology, P.C., an architecture, engineering, and environmental consulting firm, won a contract of up to $7.2 million to conduct an environmental review that is required before construction of can begin.

The Brooklyn Queens Connector, or BQX, would run for 11 miles along the East River waterfront, an area of the city that is underserved by other forms of public transit. The route, which has been revised since the original 2016 study, will link Astoria in the north with Gowanus in the south via Queensbridge, Long Island City, Greenpoint, Williamsburg, Brooklyn Heights and Red Hook. An LRV facility would need to be constructed with capacity for 40 vehicles. An overhead catenary with a 750V DC supply will be installed along the entire route.

“The BQX will link long-disconnected neighborhoods and shorten commutes for over half a million New Yorkers who live and work along the Brooklyn and Queens waterfront. It is a 21st century solution to our city’s transit challenges and we’re excited to move the project forward,” a spokesperson for the Economic Development Corporation said in a written statement.

Plans for the BQX were announced long before Amazon announced it would build its second headquarters in Long Island City, one of the neighborhoods that the streetcar would serve. Even prior to that news, the city estimated some 50,000 riders would use the line daily.

Under the terms of the contract, VHB will “prepare a comprehensive compliant environmental review” as well as helping to prepare and file applications required under the city’s Uniform Land Use Review Procedure (ULURP) rules. An environmental review that adheres to standards set by the federal National Environmental Policy Act would preserve the city’s ability to use federal funds for the construction of BQX and ensure that work meets permitting standards set by the United States Army Corps of Engineers or U.S. Coast Guard related to construction in navigable waters.

Construction of the Brooklyn Queens Connector is expected to begin in early 2024 with the line opening in mid-2029.

Adam Giambrone, the former Toronto Transit Commission chairman whom New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio had hired to develop the BQX, quit late last year to accept a job in Saudi Arabia.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by jailhousedoc on Thu Feb 7 08:06:17 2019, in response to VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Feb 6 17:24:33 2019.

this is a waste - put the money into a new subway line in the area instead of this glitzy thing which might not last long.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Feb 7 09:08:57 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by jailhousedoc on Thu Feb 7 08:06:17 2019.

Just another environmental impact study and design. There have been over 5 different ones and probably more that have been done for Staten Island North Shore busway or returning the rail line over 20 years, still not one shovel of dirt has moved.
Same here, nothing will happen other than paper being generated

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Feb 7 09:19:57 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by jailhousedoc on Thu Feb 7 08:06:17 2019.

I don't know; I look at Long Island City, Williamsburg, Downtown Brooklyn, etc. and see the development. I think of cities like Paris where, for a while, it seemed like every time I took a look at their transit page there was a new tram line built and another under construction and they seem totally fine with that.

It has to be done right of course (avoidance of congestion, properly-spaced station-stops, reliable vehicles, etc.).

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 11:49:58 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Feb 7 09:19:57 2019.

IAWTP

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 7 11:50:34 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 11:49:58 2019.

IDWTP

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Steamdriven on Thu Feb 7 13:34:28 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Feb 7 09:19:57 2019.

It'll be slower than dirt, also slower than grandparents on Citibikes. Not only will it be a waste of money, it'll slow the traffic that's actually moving - all the trucks delivering your stuff, fixing your power-gas-internet-hvac and re-railing the streetcar after teens discover how easy it is to disrupt. It'll also block ambulances, especially after DiBlasio sets it up to impede car traffic.

In a theoretical world, where this is designed and laid out concurrently with the roads AND the stops are far enough apart that it is faster than a bus, it would almost make sense. The missing part is that with today's kleptocracy, it'll cost thousands of millions not ten or twenty million, and for that much you could pay each rider twenty dollars per trip to stay home and do Hello Fresh.

Yeah I'd rather ride a nice new streetcar rather spend $ on a grubby cab, but only in an imaginary world where it actually works, picks me up where I want to get on, is going when I want to go not only when the city thinks I deserve to have mobility, doesn't shut down when there's snow, or possibly maybe wind later that day, doesn't make 20 stops for everyone else to get on, doesn't have druggies and MS-13, 14, and 19 making life more interesting and doesn't cost so much that other things get silently cut. For the cost of one streetcar, you can convert about ten thousand Citibikes to electric-assist.

Yes we have too much density of construction for car traffic to work. We also have too much density of corruption for the streetcar to work.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:05:31 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Steamdriven on Thu Feb 7 13:34:28 2019.

LOL.

"Yeah I'd rather ride a nice new streetcar rather spend $ on a grubby cab, but only in an imaginary world where it actually works, picks me up where I want to get on, is going when I want to go not only when the city thinks I deserve to have mobility, doesn't shut down when there's snow, or possibly maybe wind later that day, doesn't make 20 stops for everyone else to get on, doesn't have druggies and MS-13, 14, and 19 making life more interesting and doesn't cost so much that other things get silently cut. For the cost of one streetcar, you can convert about ten thousand Citibikes to electric-assist"

You could say the exact same about subways.


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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Thu Feb 7 19:49:18 2019, in response to VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Feb 6 17:24:33 2019.

Too bad the Sunset Park leg was dropped.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Steamdriven on Thu Feb 7 20:37:19 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:05:31 2019.

You could, but I would not. Subways and this sinkhole are nearly opposite.

Subways can

Bypass surface traffic, terrain and weather. About the only thing that shuts an underground or elevated is a politician who travels by motorcade.

Handle massive numbers of people. A simple two-track subway has more than enough capacity for all but the highest density areas, such as NYC.

Move faster than a sharp rider on a bicycle (~25mph). Maybe not in NYC today, try China.

A subway is not designed to fully replace walking + car travel. Typically the stops are placed a half mile or more apart; the closer the stops are placed, the shorter the distance you can reasonably travel on it. For example, stopping every half mile from Dulles to D.C. would totally defeat the function of that line.
Unlike a subway, a streetcar or transit bus is meant to get you pretty close to where you're going. Those things run on the streets, not under and over them.

If the streetcar network from the 1930s were still here it could be a great way to do modest length trips, at least if they weren't constantly vandalized like the ones I remember. It's gone, it's not coming back, and if we built it now it would become a recurring cash bonfire costing a bazongillion times what it did then. But only until the next recession when it gets shut down.

I've seen this story before. In Boston, the entire Arborway line was rebuilt, which involved ripping up the road, disrupting traffic and business, laying new track, etc etc etc. After a few test trains were run the line was shut down and permanently abandoned. It was never intended to provide transit, it was intended to provide graft. You paid for it.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 20:43:30 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Steamdriven on Thu Feb 7 20:37:19 2019.

Interesting take, since many other cities have had nothing but positive experiences with new streetcar lines.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Steamdriven on Thu Feb 7 22:35:27 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 20:43:30 2019.

If the surface street layout has room for streetcars it can work. It did work in NYC at one time, and you could get from anywhere to everywhere in the city on rails.* This ain't that.
The plans I saw for the BQ trolley all got hung up in side streets; there was room to run for part of the route, then the street layout forces them into a made-to-fail routing. Even then it's going to run slower than car traffic, not faster, because it's gotta run in street, not above or below.

Do the boosters in those other cities count the total system cost vs the passenger-miles used? Trolleys/LRVs are logical, but we don't live in a logical world. Instead, prices for any public works with rails come in far above what they did originally, while power equipment and 100 years of labor saving methods should make them cheaper. I suspect the fans in some cases are real estate developers and transit fans, not Joe Taxpayer.

Personally I'd be happy to use it, but I will not demand that everyone else pay, say, $10 per ride so we can have our toy train.


* Not literally everywhere .. some people ... sheesh.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 00:51:02 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 20:43:30 2019.

They should build new streetcar lines to transit-starved areas.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 00:51:31 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 00:51:02 2019.

Maybe streetcar up an SBS route instead of saying “fuck you” to the G train.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Feb 8 08:58:41 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 00:51:31 2019.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter of logical thought.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 8 17:28:00 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 00:51:31 2019.

Yeah - the Bx12 would be a perfect streetcar ROW.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Feb 8 18:41:05 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 8 17:28:00 2019.

Fully agreed. Also, the Q46 on Union Turnpike.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Feb 8 18:43:51 2019, in response to VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Feb 6 17:24:33 2019.

I swear, this proposal’s got more lives than a cat!

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 8 18:49:42 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 00:51:02 2019.

They should build new streetcar lines to transit-starved areas.

The "transit-starved areas" or transit deserts lie mostly beyond the terminals of the existing subway lines. The problem is that areas around these subway line terminals are already clogged with surface traffic.

Much of this traffic is buses. Adding streetcars to the surface traffic mix isn't going to speed up the trips any more than substituting buses for streetcars did 70+ years ago.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 8 19:54:52 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 8 18:49:42 2019.

Uh, if you add streetcars, ipso facto you would subtract buses.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 20:09:04 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 8 18:49:42 2019.

Toronto style underground loops.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 20:50:15 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 8 17:28:00 2019.

Which is exactly what I was thinking of when I posted that.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 20:50:49 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Feb 8 18:41:05 2019.

Disagree although it would be an excellent corridor regardless. That corridor should be subway, though.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 9 14:31:00 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 00:51:31 2019.

Excellent post.

There are plenty of great places for streetcar or LRT lines in NYC.

Duplicating an already underutilized subway line is not one of them.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 9 16:37:54 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 9 14:31:00 2019.

However, there are some former streetcar routes that are now bus that do parallel subway lines, like upper Bway in Manhattan which would also make a great LRT route due to its center median.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 9 17:15:42 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 9 14:31:00 2019.

If anyone in the city government had any imagination, they would have built an LRT along the West Side Highway from 59th to the Battery when it was all reconstructed a few decades ago. It could have been like the Embarcadero line in SF and a great tourist attraction as well as a transit link for the far West Side.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 18:20:20 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 8 18:49:42 2019.

Light rail and trolleys leads to economic development. Buses don't. That's why there are street car systems popping up all over the country. It's not for fun.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 18:22:06 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 9 14:31:00 2019.

G train is too fa way to be considered redundant.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 9 18:28:15 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 18:20:20 2019.

IAWTP.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 9 18:44:11 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 9 18:28:15 2019.

IAWTP.

Mind you, should we spend scarce resources on expensive real estate speculation tools versus usable transit in corridors screaming for capacity increases? Nearly every other Select Bus Service screams streetcar before this.

And if we're going to do this, for the love of God, I hope we do it right, don't cheap out on the engineering, and enforce traffic regulations to ensure that it moves quickly.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 18:51:50 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 9 18:44:11 2019.

SBS is not what it's cracked up to be.
What has IT done for real estate ?

We are to spend, it terms of tax incentives, $1.5 Billion on Amazon HQ2 on 25K jobs that will likely come from other sources anyway if Amazon backs out. (Bezos is the richest man in the world).

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 9 18:55:56 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 18:51:50 2019.

SBS is not what it's cracked up to be.
What has IT done for real estate ?

We have bus routes with the ridership level of light rail lines in other places, yet they languish as bus routes. Why aren't we upgrading those lines to streetcars?

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 19:00:16 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 9 18:55:56 2019.

I suppose we could, but that is not on the table.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 9 19:02:12 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 19:00:16 2019.

I suppose we could, but that is not on the table.

Streetcars for real estate speculation tools, but never for actual transit in North America. :-/

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 19:11:33 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 9 19:02:12 2019.

I don't know about that. The streetcars in Portland and Seattle have become something far more than just other than a tourist attraction to visit coffee eateries.

Toronto's are a solid part of the TTC system. Only the insane Late Mayor ford tried to get rid of them.

The one between Minneapolis and ST Paul runs right down the street, and replaced a bus. NIMBY's at the University tried to kill it and failed.

The replica trolley on LRV tracks in Portland is gone, as is Seattle's Waterfront trolley, when its founder died. But who wants to rid a Gillig route 99 bus now ? Nobody.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 9 21:07:38 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 19:11:33 2019.

The streetcars in Portland and Seattle have become something far more than just other than a tourist attraction to visit coffee eateries.


Portland Streetcar is probably the only "new" streetcar system in the country that's relatively fleshed out and somewhat usable. Seattle's South Lake Union is still a real estate tool, and the First Hill Streetcar can come across as somewhat poorly designed.

FWIW, if DC ever builds out their planned system, they'd actually have a decent transit system that complements Metro.

Toronto's are a solid part of the TTC system.

That's a traditional streetcar system. FWIW, if it's one system that really should have invested in streetcar tunnels, it's them. A streetcar tunnel for the King and Queen street routes would help so much in making the streetcars service faster and more reliable in the core.

The one between Minneapolis and ST Paul runs right down the street, and replaced a bus. NIMBY's at the University tried to kill it and failed.

It's weird that you'd consider that to be a streetcar given that by North American standards, it's considered to be light rail. Mind you, one could argue that shows the limitations of our nomenclature for this type of public transport. In France, there isn't much difference between old and new networks, so both are called "tramway".

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 9 22:35:02 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 9 19:02:12 2019.

Streetcars, elevateds/subways, and mainline commuter rail lines were built to induce development--sometimes even by the real estate speculators themselves. The Van Sweringens built the Shaker Heights line to afford residents in their suburban development a way to access Cleveland's CBD. The Illinois Central built the South Chicago branch into a nearly empty neighborhood but once it was there housing was quickly built (TOD before we had the term). And we have all seen pix of the Flushing line being built out into empty land.
The other minor but common reason for early transit lines was to access amusement parks, ball parks and race tracks.
So why is it now so odd to construct transit to encourage development?

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 9 23:16:22 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 9 22:35:02 2019.

It's not odd. But the BQC corridor does not need the support. There are places in NYC that do.

Before WWII, instead of coming up with "affordable housing" schemes that either don't solve the problem or make it worse, they built transit lines to new areas opening up new land to affordable housing. It's a crime that commutes are so long from certain areas of the city itself.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 9 23:49:59 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 18:20:20 2019.

Rail is attractive to developers because it signifies a capital commitment to transit in that area. They are not going to reroute the thing away from your development on a whim a few years later, nor are they going to stop service a few years after opening day.

Rail is attractive to customers because they are more user-friendly: it is blatantly obvious where the route runs. When trying to find a bus stop or bus route, sometimes you need to wait until one happens by and watch what it does. Streetcars have infrastructure that make them intuitive to find and figure out the possible route. They also are not going to reroute the streetcar to arbitrary sidestreets with unknown stopping locations for parades and whatnot; the parade is routed such that it does not interfere with the line.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by ntrainride on Sun Feb 10 02:34:00 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Feb 7 09:19:57 2019.

it does seem dumb. utica avenue still needs a subway extension...and would serve a bigger "transit-starved" population.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by ntrainride on Sun Feb 10 02:43:40 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 8 00:51:31 2019.

the humble little "gg" train is still my favorite after the sea beach. i love that it has a real subway station on broadway.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 10 07:26:55 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 8 19:54:52 2019.

if you add streetcars, ipso facto you would subtract buses.

That's not going to reduce traffic in the traffic clogged streets around the subway terminals. It will only change the vehicle type.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 10 07:37:05 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 9 18:20:20 2019.

Light rail and trolleys leads to economic development.

The areas around the subway terminals are already over developed. The land prices and the amount of surface traffic attest to that.

Development beyond these terminals into the transit deserts is hindered by the amount of surface traffic. Expansion of the subway system into the transit deserts is what's required.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 10 08:30:28 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 10 07:37:05 2019.

No one is going to spend several times what BQC would cost to make it a subway. So we are down to a bus that will not doing anything economically.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 10 08:34:54 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 10 07:26:55 2019.

There are no subway terminals here causing clogged streets. We are talking about a streetcar that is not on a subway line that would replace a bus. Street car induces local economy; bus doesn't.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 10 11:38:31 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 10 08:34:54 2019.

There are no subway terminals here causing clogged streets.

Which street intersections have the most daily scheduled bus trips traversing them? Where are they located?

Hint: the busiest such intersection in Manhattan ranks 16th citywide and down by over 1000 from the busiest.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 10 11:53:58 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 10 08:30:28 2019.

No one is going to spend several times what BQC would cost to make it a subway.

I agree. Nobody should spend any money on the BQX. Almost all the stops are within walking distance of an existing subway station. The number of people for whom the BQX would provide a 1 seat commute (live and work on the route beyond walking distance) is vanishingly small.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 10 11:57:52 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 9 23:49:59 2019.

True.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 10 11:59:28 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 10 07:26:55 2019.

Most streetcars, LRVs, have greater capacity than buses.

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Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 10 13:04:41 2019, in response to Re: VHB lands contract for environmental review of proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector, posted by italianstallion on Sun Feb 10 11:59:28 2019.

Turns are also less clumsy thanks to the guide rails.

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