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| Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains (1497040) | |
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| (1497454) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Dec 26 20:14:35 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Dec 26 19:41:11 2018. Anything I've ever seen shows the Empire Service DMs as owned by Amtrak, but substantially paid for by NYSDOT. The payments and allocations are in the 5 year plans. I'm not sure it makes that much difference, as you have pointed out, that would go away with any purchase of new power. Aside from the heritage overhauls, didn't NY also shell out for the purchase of some of the Turbos? |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 26 20:38:50 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Dec 26 11:05:09 2018. IIRC the final straw for running in e-mode for longer distances was when one of them hit a shopping cart near a grade crossing and the resulting arc essentially destroyed it (503?)... |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 26 20:48:57 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains, posted by 3-9 on Tue Dec 25 14:50:06 2018. I read somewhere the problem has since been solved for newer locomotives; the electronics are off-the-shelf now and the proprietary bits are in the software rather than hardware.Genesis came about during a time period where off the shelf electronics couldn't possibly control a locomotive, so had to be custom built. I'd imagine the same problem afflicts aircraft of that era as well. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 27 06:08:08 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 26 20:38:50 2018. So it wasn't an issue of outright performance in electric mode? That's what I've been hearing here. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 27 06:10:49 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 26 20:48:57 2018. I really hope so, because I can see this happening with things like NYC subway cars as well. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 07:03:38 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by pragmatist on Wed Dec 26 20:14:35 2018. David Gunn played repo man and hauled the Turbos away, regardless of NYS rebuilding them.Notice the Amtrak P32DM's get hauled to Beech Grove for repainting. |
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| (1497494) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 07:05:28 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Dec 26 19:41:11 2018. Paying for is one thing, having title is another.The Congo coaches than became Adirondack cars were owned by Amtrak, and most have since been sold off. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 27 07:28:23 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 07:03:38 2018. Which NYSDOT paid for |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 27 08:33:58 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by pragmatist on Wed Dec 26 20:14:35 2018. no the Turbo's were owned by Amtrak, dumb part of NYS was to pay for overhaul that Amtrak did not want, but because of politics had to agree on. |
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| (1497522) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 11:14:18 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 27 07:28:23 2018. Yeh, so ? They do not own them. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Pragmatist on Thu Dec 27 11:33:46 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 11:14:18 2018. I don't believe I said they did. They pay for an allocated portion of their use and maintenance. The numbers for the allocation is in Amtrak reports. |
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| (1497544) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 13:13:50 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Pragmatist on Thu Dec 27 11:33:46 2018. Same can be said for Amfleet and P42's used on other Empire trains. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 14:04:03 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 27 08:33:58 2018. never should have bought them. The onboard stench of partially burnt fuel was disgusting. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 27 14:28:00 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 14:04:03 2018. Even a modified Virgin Voyager (BR Class 221, but widened) might have been better than the Turboliners. |
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| (1497561) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 27 14:41:42 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 14:04:03 2018. Never road in the power car/locomotive, which may be why all my rides in Turboliners were quite pleasant. As I said before, it's a pity that at least the coaches couldn't be salvaged. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 14:54:35 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 27 14:41:42 2018. It would cost too much to make the coaches into regular RR cars, you would have spare parts oddballs on a small fleet, and they were made of LAHTS steel. Putting the bathrooms out in the vestibules on trains that run across upstate NY in the winter was not too smart. |
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| (1497566) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 27 15:01:07 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 27 14:41:42 2018. Stupid steel ruined the coaches, they fucked up the HVAC system to were it had less than 60% of capacity, a baffle removed in overhead duct plus they eliminated the floor heat ducting. this was one of main reasons Amtrak refused to accept them, other thing was no drawings or shop manuals, Stupid steel figured despite all the changes that Amtrak was going to wing it of original Rohr documentation. |
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| (1497567) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 15:03:01 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 27 15:01:07 2018. Didn't they also have to shut off the HVAC while on 3rd rail northbound departing NYPS ? |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 27 15:20:15 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 15:03:01 2018. not sure, we never had that restriction when Amtrak ran from GCT only if the Turbines were used in tunnel. |
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| (1497569) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 15:24:55 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 27 15:20:15 2018. I think after the rebuild of the 3 of them, they did. They had to be hauled by an FL9 or a Meatball to SSY also. |
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| (1497570) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 27 15:37:45 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 27 08:33:58 2018. Yes, I confused paying for the overhaul with paying for them. |
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| (1497575) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 16:48:52 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 26 20:48:57 2018. They could keep around a half zone trains in the small yard west of the station. An Amtrak Yard Engineer had to drive the train west of the NYPS platforms. That was another expense. Coming east, the LIRR crew would get on and have to do another brake test.They deadheaded to just about everywhere except West Hempstead. There were slightly fewer trains then since it predated Ronkonkoma. But soem of those and the dual mode slots were taken from Hempstead, Far Rockaway and combining some Babylon zone trains. Some train got the axe, others bumped to Brooklyn. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 20:17:15 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 27 14:28:00 2018. the whole idea was daft. Electrics are simply cleaner. Very sad that the NYC from Spuyten Duyvil to (the real) Albany was not electrified to be compatible w/either the 60 cycle NH to BOS or the PRR/NJT. from the GCOR rulebook. |
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| (1497600) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 20:22:03 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 27 14:41:42 2018. you didn't need to be in the lead car to get the fumes.from the GCOR rulebook. |
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| (1497604) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 27 20:53:15 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 20:17:15 2018. Electrics are simply cleanerDepends on where you're standing. And what you mean by "clean(er)". Very sad that the NYC from Spuyten Duyvil to (the real) Albany was not electrified to be compatible w/either the 60 cycle NH to BOS or the PRR/NJT Well, that simply was not going to happen. Never mind even the present-day frequency to/from Rensselaer (yes, the loss of Albany Union Station is lamentable to this day, never mind the elevated Syracuse station) not making electrification viable now. Further never mind it taking a couple of decades for the PRR to be convinced to adopt the New Haven's form of electrification anyhow. |
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| (1497608) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 27 21:11:16 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 27 20:53:15 2018. I suspect if the NYC were ever going to electrify it would have been done with their existing underrunning third rail. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 22:08:27 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 27 20:53:15 2018. less dirt whether one speaks of the cab, the coach seating areas, the neighborhood. Electrics do not put out combustion fumes. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 22:11:06 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 27 21:11:16 2018. there was talk about electrifying the 'Empire Corridor in the 80s IINM. |
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| (1497617) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 27 22:20:09 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 22:08:27 2018. What we perceive to be much cleaner (electric) may not be as favorable as one thinks when looking at the big picture. It is very dependent on what means are used to generate the electricity. If you have fossil fuel generated electricity, particularly if it comes from older generally dirtier plants, it will likely lose to a tier 4 diesel electric. Not in the path of the electric, but in the broader sense absolutely. Generate with hydro, different story. |
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| (1497618) | |
Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 27 22:20:22 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 27 06:08:08 2018. I rode the 4:19 PM Port Jeff a few times when DM30ACs were brand new, as far as Jamaica. I remember they wouldn't immediately switch it in Harold like they had been with the FL-9s (as I would hear the A/C cut out while going through Jay). Didn't seem to be struggling on the 80MPH portion past Forest Hills and Kew Gardens, but that wasn't stop and go. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I've ever been on one in e-mode from a dead stop apart from Penn, and that is (1) under a 15MPH speed restriction until (2) most of the train is facing downhill towards the East River. Westbound they switch over while at speed, and for the acceleration after Harold once again they are headed downgrade towards the river. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 27 22:32:11 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 27 21:11:16 2018. Most likely. Barring a severe change in culture at upper management. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 22:58:34 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 27 22:20:09 2018. While you may be correct in the extreme case of a properly functioning T4 v a completely dirty coal plant, these are not what we are dealing with here.First, unless everything I read is wrong, Tier 4 road locomotives are not a hot market item; in fact the RRs are using rebuild loopholes to avoid buying the new stuff. Second, as anyone who has stood trackside knows, not all diesels in service on any given day would "pass smog" if they were randomly "pulled over". Third, controlling the dirty output of a large single source (generating facility) is much easier than the same policing of several thousand locomotives. Fourth, as you note, hydro (though that, too, has issues), solar PV, wind, regen use in electrified systems, all provide cleaner energy than a tired diesel. BTW, my thought about "cleaner" comes from a trip on the PRR on xmas day when the RR laid on advance sections of heaily loaded trains to adequately serve the holiday travelers. I got a 'cab ride' w/ the motorman on a string of PRR Silverliners running ahead of a GG1 pulled DC-NY train starting at 30th St. Perhaps the only time I saw an"engineer" in a white shirt, overcoat, and a bowler hat. He was proud to be doing a job where he could walk off still relatively clean. The other thing I learned that day was how much better EMUs handled than a GG1 hauled train. We slowed down later and speeded back up earlier on curves.from the GCOR rulebook. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 27 23:37:11 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 22:58:34 2018. The primary focus of this thread has been been about what will be coming, not what is in service. New power will be T4 or electric. Site versus source energy ratios for any fossil fuel plant handicap them even if newer and cleaner, because they lose so much of the released energy as something other than electricity (in addition to transmission losses)Even if your plant is a relatively clean plant, it needs to release much more energy from fuel than ends up as site energy for the ultimate consumer. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Dec 28 00:05:51 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 24 19:06:22 2018. One who is likely disoriented, crawling around for his life in a cab rapidly filling with smoke.And I don't see any reason to assume that firefighters can easily find the door. Most have not trained on locomotives. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 28 00:43:17 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains, posted by R30A on Fri Dec 28 00:05:51 2018. And just how often does that happen? Not to mention a disoriented person would not be able to see any "Exit" sign much less focus on it no matter how visible. Smoke would obscure the sign anyhow. A seated engineer somehow falls on the floor and gets disoriented? Make-believe scenario.Firefighters can recognize a door quite easily, and they would not be looking for an "Exit" sign either. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Dec 28 07:30:19 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 28 00:43:17 2018. Cruise ships must carry lifeboats , how likely is they will ever be used for what they were built for ?? |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 28 07:44:13 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 28 00:43:17 2018. We don't often have MARC/AMtrak Kensington like fiery train crashes, but we have reflectorized stripes and signs along with manual door option designed in anyway. That crash is why.Don't count on fireman being able to smash the glass easily. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Dec 28 07:47:15 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 28 07:44:13 2018. on railcars 95% of glass can not be smashed, fire dept is trained on how to remove glass by pulling locking rubber out of rim. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 28 08:24:34 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Dec 28 07:47:15 2018. I was thinking of various locomotive cab windows. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 28 08:43:46 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains, posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 27 06:10:49 2018. I know … Will they really be able to service the FINDs and the CBTC equipment in 15-10 years? I can easily envision the NTTs having unnecessarily short lives. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Dec 28 09:47:28 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 28 00:43:17 2018. Have you ever tried to recognize a door in a burning room? Do you have any idea what things look like from the point of view of a firefighter? |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 28 10:14:12 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 27 23:37:11 2018. Seems to me that not all T4s are clean burning... |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 28 10:14:26 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 27 23:37:11 2018. Seems to me that not all T4s are clean burning... ROARING |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Fri Dec 28 10:14:49 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 28 10:14:26 2018. lol cute little guy |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 28 10:15:29 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 20:22:03 2018. Besides aren't they on the NORAD rule book? |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Dec 28 10:19:38 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Diesel locomotives for LD trains, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 24 19:06:22 2018. The thing that you and the other stupids don't realize that is that there are laws and regulations regarding emergency signage. Add a whole bunch of exceptions and exemptions and the rules become difficult to follow. Then when someone dies because of a poorly marked exit, people will complain.IOW, it's easier to mark exit doors even where no one would benefit from the marking than it is to carve out exceptions. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 28 10:49:53 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 14:54:35 2018. they were made of LAHTS steelThat is pretty odd, in the age of stainless steel. I wonder why they did that. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 28 10:52:31 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 27 15:24:55 2018. They had to be hauled by an FL9 or a Meatball to SSY also.They needed another locomotive to pull them to Sunnyside? Oh, brother. :-( |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 28 10:54:40 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 27 20:22:03 2018. Odd then, I never encountered the fumes on the few times I rode Turboliners, and I hate being stuck in a compartment with diesel fumes. |
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Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Dec 28 11:12:11 2018, in response to Re: Amtrak orders 75 new Siemens Charger locomotives for LD trains, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 28 10:14:12 2018. don't confuse smoke with harmful particles . |
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