New rolling stock for NJT

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New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Dec 13 08:14:57 2018 Railway Age Article
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Lou from Brooklyn* on Thu Dec 13 08:56:58 2018, in response to New rolling stock for NJT, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Dec 13 08:14:57 2018.* Local NBC carried the story this morning
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by chuchubob* on Thu Dec 13 09:11:10 2018, in response to New rolling stock for NJT, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Dec 13 08:14:57 2018.* ...nearly 650 new Multilevels, many of which will be powered electric vehicles, the first of their type in North America. Apparently NJT distinguishes between "Multilevels" and "bilevels".
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Joe V* on Thu Dec 13 09:22:58 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by chuchubob on Thu Dec 13 09:11:10 2018.* Those are really Gallery cars. Bi-levels term is generically applied to what LIRR, MBTA, and MARC have, though MARC has some of the NJT type ones as well.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by TransitChuckG* on Thu Dec 13 09:28:05 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by chuchubob on Thu Dec 13 09:11:10 2018.* Thanks, chuchubob
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by pragmatist* on Thu Dec 13 10:06:20 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by chuchubob on Thu Dec 13 09:11:10 2018.* The terminology does get mucked up, for sure. I guess the fundamental point is that the LIRR and NJT run cars that can run into NYP.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Joe V* on Thu Dec 13 10:16:18 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 13 10:06:20 2018.* But LIRR cars cannot run in the Hudson River.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Thu Dec 13 11:42:28 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 13 10:16:18 2018.* I did not know that any train could run in the Hudson River. ROAR
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by nasadowsk* on Thu Dec 13 11:47:42 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by chuchubob on Thu Dec 13 09:11:10 2018.* They also seem to ignore the fact that motor/trailer/trailer/motor sets are pretty much the norm in Europe these days. I'd be more interested in details - weight, power, and what the seating on the 'power' cars will be like, interior arrangement, performance, etc. The whole 'power car', i.e. a car pulling a few coaches, is not an untested concept - the Swiss had single level ones, and they fucking suck in the summer. Power output will be the key, here - assume about 10-15% of the output will be emitted as heat. Anyway, at 6 million a pop, they better fucking work well...
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by italianstallion* on Thu Dec 13 11:55:43 2018, in response to New rolling stock for NJT, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Dec 13 08:14:57 2018.* Thank God the Christie days are over.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by pragmatist* on Thu Dec 13 11:59:54 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 13 10:16:18 2018.* The HR tunnels are a bit more of a challenge than the East River Tubes, the NJT cars have an adjustment in the roof profile at the ends for that reason...
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by pragmatist* on Thu Dec 13 12:03:02 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 13 11:55:43 2018.* One of the articles mentioned Christie having NJT on a "starvation diet" Obviously not likely something he has much personal experience with......
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100* on Thu Dec 13 12:04:31 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 13 11:42:28 2018.* Probably not....they'll sink like a metallic rock. lol
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by r33/r36 mainline* on Thu Dec 13 12:32:35 2018, in response to New rolling stock for NJT, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Dec 13 08:14:57 2018.* Meh, I was really hoping for a single level Arrow IV to replace the Arrow 3. NJT which had the most diverse commuter rail fleet in the country will now be entirely made up of multi levels, yuck.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Dave* on Thu Dec 13 13:08:00 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 13 12:03:02 2018.* LOL!
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Thu Dec 13 13:10:38 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Dec 13 12:32:35 2018.* NJT was an amalgam of many different railroads, voltages, hertz etc. Now it is a single system it makes sense to have a standard car with standard parts. ROAR
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 13:20:03 2018, in response to New rolling stock for NJT, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Dec 13 08:14:57 2018.* Very cute pic. More shiny new cars for MMC to fail to maintain. I'll believe it when I see it. (Is that supposed to be a low platform of the height used at Hoboken?) And no, Christie allowing the options for the push-pull MLVs and a plethora of new buses was not a "starvation diet" by far. Railway Age lies.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 13:25:44 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 13 13:10:38 2018.* Nope; there were only two railroads that were electrified on the NJT system (PRR and DL&W), and only two different electrification systems (11kV 25Hz and 3kV DC respectively). NJT turned the 3kV DC system into 25kV 60Hz; now this was in anticipation of Amtrak converting the 11kV 25Hz to that system, but it's still only two systems.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 13:29:32 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Dec 13 12:32:35 2018.* NJT which had the most diverse commuter rail fleet in the country It didn't really. Unless you're counting the Alstom Comet V, which was nothing like the predecessor Comets from Bombardier (themselves outgrowths of the original Pullman Standard design). Comet 1A and 1B cars were mongrels of a sort. It could be argued that the Arrow IIs ought to have been themselves rebuilt instead of retired after a mere 23 years of service too. "Diversity" means increased spare parts inventories too.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 13:32:34 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 13 11:55:43 2018.* Like so many Subchatters say, don't go political. And no, the Murphy days are worse. ACRL reopening pushed back. Hogger shortages. The list will grow.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 13:35:17 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by nasadowsk on Thu Dec 13 11:47:42 2018.* They also seem to ignore the fact that motor/trailer/trailer/motor sets are pretty much the norm in Europe these days That was also "the norm" on the DL&W. And on the PRR for that matter. It was "the norm" in lots of places, even in Europe, not just "these days". Anyway, at 6 million a pop, they better fucking work well Aw, that's just the price of a new diesel-electric "these days". And the ALP-45DPs cost double that amount a pop; we don't seem to get any reports of their performance either.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 13:39:19 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 13 10:06:20 2018.* No, it's not that. Take note of the intermediate level at the ends of the cars. Notwithstanding, "multi-level" is NJT's term.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Ian Lennon* on Thu Dec 13 13:44:45 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 13:25:44 2018.* Isn't Amtrak balking also why the NH is 60hz?
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by pragmatist* on Thu Dec 13 13:51:49 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 13:39:19 2018.* aren't the corners "cut" to provide for clearance on turns?
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by italianstallion* on Thu Dec 13 14:25:31 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 13 12:03:02 2018.* Hahahaha
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by italianstallion* on Thu Dec 13 14:25:57 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 13:32:34 2018.* You are a barrel of laughs.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 14:31:05 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 13 13:51:49 2018.* That's not what I was talking about. The intermediate level for high-platform ingress/egress at the ends of the cars is what I was referring to.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 14:32:30 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Ian Lennon on Thu Dec 13 13:44:45 2018.* Metro-North converted that to 60 Hz, FWICS. All has to do with making the railroads more dependent on the grid more than generating its own power.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Bill from Maspeth* on Thu Dec 13 15:58:03 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 13:35:17 2018.* The ratio of trailer cars to power will be on power car pulling TWO trailers. I am quite skeptical of that working out along with Bombardier building the cars. Will they be delivered on time? I doubt it.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Bill from Maspeth* on Thu Dec 13 16:04:44 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 13 12:03:02 2018.* Do you make fun of a person with a big nose? Or big ears that stick out? So why an overweight ex-governor who I admittedly don't like either? Making fun of a fat person is the equivalent of calling a person by an ethnic slur. It is just not kind and hurtful.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 16:05:09 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 13 15:58:03 2018.* I'd say one power car with two trailers wouldn't be a problem with enough horses and tractive effort. None of the power cars ought to be "blind" (aka "B-units"), though, but it looks like that may be the plan. The Dinky gets the short end of the stick, obviously. A single power car with cab at each end would be just fine, if such a thing got built. (But frankly, NJT could have rebuilt the entire original New Jersey RR line through Kingston with an underground section diversion through Princeton, for/with all of the money they've blown on extravagant new rolling stock through the years.)
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Thu Dec 13 17:14:27 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 13 16:04:44 2018.* I disagree. People can control their weight. They can’t change their nose and ears without difficult surgery. Also, making fun of weight, where it encourages weight loss, promotes good health. Having a big nose or ears isn’t unhealthy.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by AlM* on Thu Dec 13 17:24:15 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 13 17:14:27 2018.* People can control their weight. Some can, some can't.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Thu Dec 13 17:41:00 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 13 17:24:15 2018.* #PutDownTheFork
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Far Rockaway A Train* on Thu Dec 13 17:50:26 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 13 12:03:02 2018.* You know you're wrong. HA HA HA HA HAAA!
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Joe V* on Thu Dec 13 18:05:31 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Thu Dec 13 13:51:49 2018.* No. They are for clearance in the Hudson River tunnels. (LIRR C-3 cars wouldn't fit).
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Joe V* on Thu Dec 13 18:06:11 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 16:05:09 2018.* I think the Dinky will be toast.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Joe V* on Thu Dec 13 18:07:39 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Ian Lennon on Thu Dec 13 13:44:45 2018.* MN converted it. Amtrak has no intention of converting its portion. The are fine with their hydro power generation in Pennsylvania.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT?
Posted by Joe V* on Thu Dec 13 18:08:49 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 13:20:03 2018.* On the power car, where the high level doors would have been are to be just vents.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Bill from Maspeth* on Thu Dec 13 18:44:47 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 13 17:14:27 2018.* Not necessarily. Some peoples' metabolism causes the excessive weight. I'm talking about cyber bullying of strangers, people who we don't know, it should be none of anyone's business how much the person weighs. If Chrystie was skinny as a rail would people on this board be making fun of his appearance? Nope, we only cyber bully overweight people, never those who look like a toothpick! People who we know, our loved ones, are those who we should encourage to lose weight if that is necessary.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 19:57:12 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 13 18:08:49 2018.* I see that. Interesting computer model.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT?
Posted by Henry R32 #3730* on Thu Dec 13 20:56:17 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 13 18:08:49 2018.* The extra doors are useless anyway. With the quarter point doors people ignore the end doors. Delete them and same number of people are still handled by the same number of doors. Should use a design similar to MBTA and MARC's Kawasakis.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 21:18:51 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 13 20:56:17 2018.* MARC ended up buying some of those MLVs with the eight doors. I doubt they're getting MLV power cars for the Penn Line, however.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 21:20:20 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 13 18:07:39 2018.* Amtrak has no intention of converting its portion. The are fine with their hydro power generation in Pennsylvania You sure they had a change of heart? After all, those were their plans, and NJT converted to 25kV 60Hz to match up with Amtrak's plans.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Olog-hai* on Thu Dec 13 21:21:39 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 13 18:06:11 2018.* A lot of people are foreseeing a permanent bustitution there. After all, NJT boasted about it in one of their BRT proposals.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Henry R32 #3730* on Thu Dec 13 21:40:06 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 13 17:14:27 2018.* People can control their weight. I used to think that. Problem is, certain drugs slow metabolism to a crawl. Also, an excess of insulin combined with inadequate food will result in the body literally destroying its own organs in order to store more fat.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Nilet* on Thu Dec 13 23:28:03 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 13 17:14:27 2018.* People can control their weight. Not really. Losing a substantial amount of weight permanently through choice alone isn't something people are generally capable of. Also, making fun of weight, where it encourages weight loss, promotes good health. There's two assumptions in that one sentence. First, fat-shaming does not, in any way shape or form, contribute to weight loss. Second, weight loss does not generally promote good health. Having a big nose or ears isn’t unhealthy. Nor is having a few extra pounds on. The idea that obesity is unhealthy traces back to studies that found a correlation between obesity and poor health and assumed an incorrect causal relationship (ie, that obesity causes poor health; in actuality, poverty causes both obesity and poor health). However, the study and the conclusions drawn therefrom are actually part of a deeper bias intrinsic to our culture. For nearly all of history, society has tended to assume that beauty means health, and "beauty" is defined in a manner associated with the rich. For most of human history, food was scarce and expensive, so a paunch was a trait associated with rich people who could afford it and therefore beautiful. That society as a whole switched over to believing that being fat is "ugly" at exactly the point in history where being fat became more associated with the poor than the rich is no coincidence; that society produced, with the aid of biased or misinterpreted science, a "study" showing being fat to be unhealthy is no coincidence either.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by K. Trout* on Fri Dec 14 00:21:46 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 13 23:28:03 2018.* Losing a substantial amount of weight permanently through choice alone isn't something people are generally capable of. And when they do, it's often called anorexia or bulimia, which comes with its own set of attendant problems.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Jersey Mike* on Fri Dec 14 08:36:39 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 13 09:22:58 2018.* Those are split levels as they have 3 different levels.
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Re: New rolling stock for NJT
Posted by Jersey Mike* on Fri Dec 14 08:38:35 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by nasadowsk on Thu Dec 13 11:47:42 2018.* I don't know why NJT is suddenly allergic to single level stock. A 3-2 car with no center door and no bathrooms can seat only 10 or so people less than one of the new 2+2 multi levels.
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