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| Re: Tour of funeral train (1494790) | |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 22:47:50 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 6 18:55:21 2018. As bizarre as this sounds to say on SubChat, you're actually both right.The south fought to preserve slavery, even if that meant destroying the Union. The north fought to preserve the Union even if that meant allowing slavery (though in practice, secession guaranteed its nominal abolition). |
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Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train) |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 22:47:52 2018, in response to Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train), posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 6 18:51:17 2018. I'm pretty sure Lincoln would have been happy to allow slavery in order to restore the Union if such an option were ever realistic. It wasn't, of course— the south objected to Lincoln not because he was seriously pushing to abolish slavery, but because the fact that he was elected without a single slaver's vote was in and of itself an unforgivable offense to them. As such, they seceded in the name of maintaining slavery, and once they did, the only way to bring them back was by force— and since they seceded and thus gave up their representation in the Union government, the political pressure to abolish slavery (on paper, if not in practice) became insurmountable. |
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Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train) |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Dec 6 23:38:10 2018, in response to Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train), posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Dec 6 22:13:48 2018. Of course! |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 7 00:37:53 2018, in response to Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train), posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Dec 6 15:57:42 2018. There were two types of slavery going on back then, namely indentured servitude (where the servant is released after seven years with pay) and chattel slavery (for life; only recompense room, board and marriage to other chattel slaves of opposite sex for breeding purposes). There was large agreement even back then that chattel slavery was highly immoral. |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Bill West on Fri Dec 7 04:12:00 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 22:47:43 2018. "society as a whole has allowed" is in the sense that society believes that what people do with their own resources is their own business, that no one else has any say over it. Others can express their opinion on what they would do but it is not theirs to argue that one's own use of one's own resources wrongs anyone. People have the right to even squander their own resources."No one has offered a coherent rebuttal" uh, I've made calm counterpoints 5 posts in a row. In answering be careful not to vindicate those that have rebutted you much more strongly than I have. Be smarter than their reactionary approach. Bill |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Dec 7 05:56:22 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Bill West on Fri Dec 7 04:12:00 2018. "society as a whole has allowed" is in the sense that society believes that what people do with their own resources is their own business, that no one else has any say over it.Society also believes that criminals can be denied the right to use their own resources as they see fit, or even denied the right to call the resources theirs. That society has allowed three generations of Bush to commit crimes without calling them criminals is a choice society has made. Others can express their opinion on what they would do but it is not theirs to argue that one's own use of one's own resources wrongs anyone. On the contrary. If I elect to use a gun I rightfully own to relocate a bullet I rightfully own to the interior of your skull, you have every right to tell me that is an illegitimate use of my own resources because it wrongs you. If I did it anyway, everyone would have the right to call me a criminal and deny me all further rights to use my resources as I see fit, or even to call them mine. And if society instead called me a hero and heaped accolades upon me, then that would be a choice society has made. People have the right to even squander their own resources. Yes, but if the Bush crime family had been arrested long ago, then the choice to squander resources on a special train for them would never have been made. "No one has offered a coherent rebuttal" uh, I've made calm counterpoints 5 posts in a row. They were certainly calm and polite, which is a rarity on SubChat these days. However, none of them directly addressed my point. In your first post, you mentioned details about UP's decision to run the train, but that's unrelated to my main point that we shouldn't have ended up in a position where such a thing was realistic— if society were just, then Bush would be so toxic that UP wouldn't dare risk the PR fiasco of heaping accolades upon him. Your second and third posts were based on a slight misunderstanding of why I originally brought up Amtrak (which was unclear, so I apologise). Your fourth post (and this current post) sought to address my point about what society allows, but didn't reach quite deep enough to address my underlying concerns about the shape of society; I mentioned both UP's provision of a funeral train and Amtrak's lack of diner cars not as standalone issues but as a broader commentary on the shape of society as a whole. In summary— the fact that a dead criminal is treated as heroic and heaped with praise says some nasty things about us as a society. The provision of a luxurious funeral train nicer than what most non-criminals will ever ride in is a small, if somewhat emblematic, part of that. |
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Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train) |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 7 07:39:34 2018, in response to Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train), posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 6 18:51:17 2018. So how did a thread about G HW Bush's funeral train degenerate into another war? I know- because Lincoln had a funeral train...and downhill from there.So did RFK. Can we talk about that one? |
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Right from the Second Post!!! |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 7 07:41:43 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Nilet on Wed Dec 5 22:36:52 2018. So this thread turned into a political flame war right on the second post about it? SERIOUSLY?? |
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Re: Right from the Fifth Post!!! |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Dec 7 08:14:18 2018, in response to Right from the Second Post!!!, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 7 07:41:43 2018. It was the fifth post. Fourth if you exclude doubles. Twelfth if you use a strict definition that requires an explicitly insulting word to count as a flame.If you click view flat, it's easier to see. |
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Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train) |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Dec 7 08:23:14 2018, in response to Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train), posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 7 07:39:34 2018. So how did a thread about G HW Bush's funeral train degenerate into another war?Because authoritarians hate it when anyone criticizes the authority figures they worship. I know- because Lincoln had a funeral train...and downhill from there. Lincoln's funeral train was a ridiculous excess that made Bush's seem halfway reasonable by comparison. There are monarchs that got less undeserved ceremony when they died. It was actually scarily reminiscent of the funeral festivities for Kim Jong-Il. |
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Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Dec 7 08:50:43 2018, in response to Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train), posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 14:47:19 2018. Iraq was a huge blunder. |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 7 08:51:05 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Alan Follett on Thu Dec 6 09:55:47 2018. Pretty nice perk, your own heritage luxury passenger train. :-) |
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Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 7 08:53:56 2018, in response to Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train), posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 22:47:48 2018. I believe he was trying to phase slavery out, but the South wouldn't have it and seceded, so he went all out. |
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Re: Right from the Second Post!!! |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 7 11:25:49 2018, in response to Right from the Second Post!!!, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 7 07:41:43 2018. Well, that is the LEFT for you!Zero Tolerance ROAR |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 7 12:51:04 2018, in response to Re: Boycott (was:Tour of funeral train), posted by Mitch45 on Fri Dec 7 08:50:43 2018. No; not finishing the job was. And stop perpetuating the thread hijack. |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Dec 7 16:56:31 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 22:47:47 2018. "...if you so much as mention that some dead skell that they worship was not a good person."Thats your opinion which you have a right to. Also folks here have a right to disagree with you without the namecalling...on both sides. Namecalling is a tool or the inarticulate. Its like two kids in a sandbox in a "rank out" fight we used to call it back then. If you can't make a point with legit facts to back up your statements (and rebut) w/o resorting to childish measures, then you have no conversation. Whats the point? Having said that, do you have any facts to back up your opinion of G.H.W, Bush being a murderer? If this was so blatantly obvious to everybody, why wasn't he impeached? Even the most staunch republicans of the day would have hung him out to dry if even the least bit of your accusations were true. Reminds me of Nixon & Watergate. When the most conservitave republican of the time Barry Goldwater turned on him, right then & there Nixon knew it was over. Anyway, God bless the USA & its freedom of speech. Fairly good exercise here. However, if you would have been able to make a post like this in Iran after the death of Ayatollah Kohmeni (sp) condeming him, your head would have been on a steak on your front lawn the next day. |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 7 17:11:55 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 22:47:47 2018. That the nutjobs, moral degenerates, and mental defectives of various stripes who infest SubChat all hate me is something I consider a point of prideWow. Talk about projection. If you think the majority of Subchat is such people, why do you come here? Or maybe they aren't? if evil people hate me, that suggests I'm doing something right Wow, you're surrounded by "evil people", lol. Paranoid much? … some dead skell … You should have that as your epitaph, perhaps. |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Dec 7 18:07:51 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Dec 7 16:56:31 2018. Also folks here have a right to disagree with you without the namecalling...on both sides.Technically, we also have a right to the namecalling. However, unprovoked namecalling is rude, which is why I don't do it. Reciprocity, however, is a common theme throughout interactions— that's the mechanism by which manners are enforced, after all. So while unprovoked namecalling is rude, responding in kind to it is not. Namecalling is a tool or the inarticulate. Incorrect. It's more like a seasoning. If you have nothing but namecalling, it would be best to shut up, but if you've got a legit point to make, then a few insults directed at the deserving can spice it up a bit and make it less boring. If you can't make a point with legit facts to back up your statements (and rebut) w/o resorting to childish measures, then you have no conversation. The two are not mutually exclusive. Attaching an insult to the end of an argument does not invalidate it. Though I admit that many of the people in this thread have nothing but insults, so perhaps this part of your post was directed at them. Having said that, do you have any facts to back up your opinion of G.H.W, Bush being a murderer? 25-50 thousand deaths estimated. So yes. If this was so blatantly obvious to everybody, why wasn't he impeached? Seriously? If Thomas Jefferson was a slaver, why wasn't he impeached? The powerful are almost never held accountable for their crimes— especially not when those crimes are committed against the powerless. That's as obvious as the crimes themselves. Even the most staunch republicans of the day would have hung him out to dry if even the least bit of your accusations were true. That's absolute lunacy. You might as well claim that Kim du Jour is a righteous leader because the North Koreans would have hung him out to dry if he weren't. Reminds me of Nixon & Watergate. When the most conservitave republican of the time Barry Goldwater turned on him, right then & there Nixon knew it was over. Nixon made the mistake of attacking the powerful— a major rival party, not the people of a foreign colony. And even then, he faced no consequences for his actions beyond losing a position of extreme power he never had any right to in the first place. Anyway, God bless the USA & its freedom of speech. Tell that to Snowden, Manning, Kiriakou, Albury, and all the other people who have been sent to prison - recently! - for daring to criticize the government. However, if you would have been able to make a post like this in Iran after the death of Ayatollah Kohmeni (sp) condeming him, your head would have been on a steak on your front lawn the next day. Am I sensing a little bit of fatwa envy? Also, the word you're looking for is "stake." |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Dec 7 22:48:46 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Nilet on Fri Dec 7 18:07:51 2018. "stake."Got me there! |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Dec 8 15:58:25 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 22:47:47 2018. Poor Nilet, living all alone, except for the company of the hateful demons that you conjured up all by yourself. Please enlighten us with your life story. Then, we can compare it to George H W Bush's accomplishments.By the way, I did not vote for Bush, when he ran against Clinton. However, I do respect him as a former president. |
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Re: Right from the Second Post!!! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 8 16:36:10 2018, in response to Re: Right from the Second Post!!!, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 7 11:25:49 2018. Im not actually amazed by theRidiculous amount of stupid shown by the alt-right. Im saying Everything done by Your party so far has the callings of Domestic Terrorist affiliation. |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 8 17:35:22 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Dec 8 15:58:25 2018. So which is it? Does everyone hate me or did I just imagine it? At this point, you're so blinded by irrational hatred you can't even avoid contradicting yourself from one post to the next.Elkeeper ♠ Nilet! Elkeeper ♠ Nilet! Elkeeper and Nilet, sittin' in a tree, K-I-C-K-I-N-G! First comes hate, then comes moaning, then comes Elkeeper's rapid PWNING! However, I do respect him as a former president. Why don't you explain exactly what you mean by this? Because while the statement is utterly nonsensical on its face, it also serves as a clue to how you ended up as a sad sack with no life outside of throwing tantrums on the internet. |
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Re: Right from the Second Post!!! |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 8 17:41:43 2018, in response to Re: Right from the Second Post!!!, posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 8 16:36:10 2018. You do have to appreciate the irony of it. I make a generic comment that barely counts as political, the right throws a massive tantrum cursing my name for explicitly political reasons because they consider anything other than unconditional worship to be intolerable, and Broadway Lion goes: "See, that proves the left is utterly intolerant."That said, I don't really bother with Broadway Lion anymore myself, since he's basically an NPC. You can't try to debate with him since he doesn't even understand any of the things he says, let alone what you say; he just memorized a list of beliefs and a list of cues on which to mindlessly recite each. While it can be fun to exploit some idiot's predictability and make them dance, they need to at least give the impression of having a mind of their own or it just gets dull. |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Dec 8 17:42:41 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 8 17:35:22 2018. elkeeper,he`s off his meds again. |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 8 17:48:51 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Dec 8 17:42:41 2018. Ah, the guy who thinks murdering children with napalm is "heroic" has once again succumbed to the delusion that he is qualified to comment. How goes that? |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Dec 8 19:17:49 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 8 17:48:51 2018. who are you talking about? |
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Re: Tour of funeral train |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 8 19:28:28 2018, in response to Re: Tour of funeral train, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Dec 8 19:17:49 2018. LOL! |
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