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| Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map (1492394) | |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by LA Scott on Tue Nov 13 08:53:08 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by VictorM on Mon Nov 12 14:25:56 2018. I prefer Jabbour's map over the Vignelli map, but for using the system both are inferior to the current map.I do continue to be irritated that the only way to officially obtain his KickMaps is to own an Applie IOS device. |
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| (1492698) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 13 11:02:54 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 11 03:48:10 2018. I disagree because most riders at least in Manhattan where most of the tourists are, are not restricted to a single route but could use either the express or the local, so they would have to remember two colors and two designations instead of a single color. It is much easier for them to say to themselves I need the red line or the red express than to remember a color and designation for each express line and another color(s) and number(s) for the local.As far as the current maps design, there certainly is room for improvement. Personally, I think the Kick Map does the best job and strikes the best compromise and also shows. Neighborhoods. |
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| (1492699) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 13 11:29:13 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 11 17:21:38 2018. Today...most of the peak trains are part ofregular everyday non peak service.The Q is full time 24hr. The C is all day to late evening. The M is 24 hours depending on where you are going. Brighton 6th ave service has changed due to demographic information that favors Broadway over 6th Avenue or Nassau st(this is more of a budgetary service cut than anything else.R service in Brooklyn sucks ass from Whitehall all the way to 95th st due to the lack of Nassau st trains. ) The IRT lines are basically the same as they were since 1988 when the 4 was moved to Utica all times...one heck of an improvement. The B/C BRONX reroute was more for operations..streamlining services for Them instead of riders. What would have made more sense was sendind 8th ave trains to 205 instead (K or H express, B to Bedford pk..D to 168th.) |
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| (1492701) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 13 11:57:09 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 16:18:00 2018. The Problem here is there are no longer 3 divisions.2 subdivisions and one full. Still a tangled mess that needs streamlining...that a few additional connections could fix. One could remove some or all trains from the Manny B by building a series of short connecting tunnels in lower Manhattan and Brooklyn. |
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| (1492702) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 13 12:02:12 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 16:54:21 2018. Thats not our problem.Simply reading the map...or ovehead signage on platforms..even station entrances will tell them where they are and what lines are available. Laziness is not allowed. |
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| (1492704) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Nov 13 12:29:55 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 13 01:33:35 2018. Not really. The colors appear on all station signs, both outside, in mezzanines, and on the platforms. |
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| (1492727) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 13 15:41:58 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 13 11:29:13 2018. The 4 was moved to Utica/New Lots at all times in early 1983, the same year that the 2 and 3 south terminals were swapped between N/Lots and Flatbush and the 5 sent to Flatbush. That was the year I became a trainmaster and I was still in the schedule office at the time the changes were made and actually wrote many of the timetables for the route changes. |
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| (1492728) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 13 15:43:36 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 13 11:57:09 2018. Actually, the IND could still be considered a full division since it had a number of lines that remain on the traditional IND and don’t have any BMT operation at all. |
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| (1492729) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 15:52:26 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 13 15:43:36 2018. You mean the G Division?Every single other lettered train shares track with trains that run over lengthy sections of the former BMT. A shares with D. C shares with B. E shares with M. F shares with M. |
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| (1492737) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by BusRider on Tue Nov 13 17:02:03 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 13 15:41:58 2018. What was the cause for those changes?Did headways change at all so that these schedules flowed during the making process? |
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| (1492743) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 13 18:47:42 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 13 15:41:58 2018. You sure?I distinctly remember the 4 still ending at Atlantic ave misdays all the way up to the very day Archer ave opened. |
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| (1492758) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 14 02:01:38 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by BusRider on Tue Nov 13 17:02:03 2018. Prior to the changes, the 1 and 3 hared the same car fleet and those cars were maintained and inspected at 240 St barn. That meant if a 3 train was due for either inspection or repair it had to operate light to 96 St, change ends and operate light to 240 St. By changing the south terminal of the 3 to New Lots, the #3 fleet could have its own barn at N/Lts and the #1 would only have to deal with its own cars. There was also some mixing of the 2 and 5 fleets between E180 St and 239 St barns which was resolved by having all #5 cars inspected at E180 and all #2 cars inspected at 239 St. Now each car fleet had its own separate maintenance facility. Up until the change, the 5s went to Utica and the 4s went to Flatbush except during middays, early evenings and midnights. With then exception of running the midnight 4s to N/Lots the ret of the lines were originally to remain the same. I recommended that the south terminals of the 4 and 5 also be swapped so that the 4s would always operate all the way down E/Pky to either Utica or N/Lots and the 5s would operate to Flatbush whenever they operated into Bkln. Fortunately the upper management had enough sense to agree with me and so the 4s and 5s swapped terminals to match. An additional plus to my idea was that if a 2 or 5 had to be swapped at Flatbush due to a delay, it would be easier to return the trains to their home routes on the West Farms branch rather than from Woodlawn. |
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| (1492759) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 14 02:10:19 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 13 18:47:42 2018. Middays were the only wrinkle at the time but eventually it was decided to extend the midday 4s to Utica since they did that on weekends anyhow. Also a few years prior to that the 5s also operated to Atlantic and it was decided to have midday and evening 5s terminate at Bowling Green and have only 4s going to Bkln. Keep in mind that there are many variations in the different services which don’t show up on the official timetables. In the AM there are a few 2 and 5 trains that operate to Utica or N/Lots to lay up there middays and originate there in the PM rush for N/B service. I don’t know if it’s still done or not, but there were also selected 4s and 5s that in the AM didn’t go to Bkln at all but turned at Bowling Green and returned N/B. A few S/B trains in the PM also did the same thing since they were not needed in Bkln but only for Bronx service. Originally, the PM Bwlg Grn turnarounds operated light S/B to avoid fumigating the trains at Bwlg Grn, but I believe, the MTA has insisted they now operate in service which probably cause no end of confusion at Bwlg Grn. |
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| (1492760) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 14 02:11:15 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 13 15:52:26 2018. They may share but they don’t actually enter the BMT. |
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| (1492761) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by FtgreeneG on Wed Nov 14 03:49:21 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 15:21:27 2018. Iawtp. 100%. The NYC Subway is so big it's intimidating to many newcomers. |
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| (1492762) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Nov 14 03:58:09 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by FtgreeneG on Wed Nov 14 03:49:21 2018. and the weekend GO's are more intimidating.Difficult to navigate unless you really know the system. Imagine visiting for the holidays? It's frustrating. |
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| (1492763) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by FtgreeneG on Wed Nov 14 04:45:31 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Nov 14 03:58:09 2018. Yup with GO's the map is pretty much worthless and of course tourist are trying to study the map... A recipe got a lot of lost folk. |
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| (1492845) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 14 17:44:04 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Nov 14 03:58:09 2018. Back when I first started scheduling in 1976, there was a moratorium on all midday and weekend GOs from Thanksgiving until New Years Day. Thanks to the poor planning on the part of upper MTA management, that is no longer the case. |
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