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| [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After (1489598) | |
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[PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Oct 14 20:30:34 2018  #8013 - Rebuilt under contract R-34 (July 1977) 
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Oct 14 21:25:14 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Oct 14 20:30:34 2018. I always try to imagine these R-11/34's running in a 1950's built 2nd Ave subway! |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Oct 14 21:50:56 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Oct 14 20:30:34 2018. nice. thank you. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Oct 14 23:06:48 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Oct 14 21:25:14 2018. I always try to imagine these R-11/34's running in a 1950's built 2nd Ave subway! \What might have been. :( Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 15 00:42:10 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Oct 14 23:06:48 2018. indeed. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 03:56:14 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Oct 14 21:25:14 2018. Yes, a whole fleet of them three to four hundred maybe.. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 04:13:42 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Oct 14 20:30:34 2018. The interior looks much more open with the rebuild, yet, a design loss since it's the TA's bland style overall. There's the obvious loss of the central standee poles*; and of course the plastic "benches" instead of the original seats.*did the original design of these cars for the 2nd ave. subway, take into account that these poles would be necessary for expected heavy east side traffic, as was on the Lex? The grab handle design in the original photo, is that BMT style, similar to the grab handle design of the Standards, D-types. And different maps for different eras - original photo, late 40s Hagstrom BMT oriented route map.** And the rebuild, features a 70s Vignelli map. **at that time was it considered that a built second ave. subway might be part of the BMT Division? |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by chud1 on Mon Oct 15 05:23:34 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Oct 14 20:30:34 2018. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars for these pictures.chud1. :)..... |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 06:59:16 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 04:13:42 2018. When rebuilt under contract R-34, the R-11's retained their velon seating. The fiberglass seats came later. As far as the loss of standee poles, I believe the R-11 were rebuilt for the Franklin Ave shuttle, since nine cars were fine with one spare. The photo below was taken by me with a cheap camera when I was fourteen years old. (Circa 1965) 
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 15 07:02:36 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 06:59:16 2018. Ok, that proves the Velon seats initially survived the R34 conversion.As I understand it, the R34 job basically made them into a single-unit version of the R32. Sad that even after that work, they didn't last long. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 07:32:39 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 15 07:02:36 2018. The end in a New Jersey scrapyard. (January 26, 1981) 
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 08:04:59 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 03:56:14 2018. They were the prototype. So I think a mass-produced car would have been the R16. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 08:07:45 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 07:32:39 2018. How does a scrap yard separate the differing kinds of steal from the plastic and fiberglass ? |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 08:22:09 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 08:07:45 2018. How does a scrap yard separate the differing kinds of steal from the plastic and fiberglass ?I don't how it's done. Possibly in the shredding process where metals are separated from non metals. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Oct 15 09:07:55 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 04:13:42 2018. The R11 was unique in that one end of the car had the Hagstrom map highlighted in yellow for the BMT routes; the other car end ahd it highlighted in red for IND service.Both ends had indirect florescent lights within the bottom of the map casing. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 10:13:41 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Oct 15 09:07:55 2018. Fluorescent with some sort of intentional use of germicide radiation. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Oct 15 10:17:07 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 10:13:41 2018. Only they didn't know it actually caused sterility!! |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 10:19:00 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Oct 15 10:17:07 2018. I thought it caused cancer.Notice now how the hygienist runs out of the room when she X-rays your teeth |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Oct 15 11:06:08 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 10:19:00 2018. Can do both and more. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 12:27:15 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 10:13:41 2018. Fluorescent with some sort of intentional use of germicide radiation.The germicidal "steri lamps" were located in the air handlers at the cars ends. The UV lamps supposedly would kill the germs when the air was recirculated through out the car. The effectiveness of the lamps was anybody's guess. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 15 13:44:50 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 12:27:15 2018. The effectiveness of the lamps was anybody's guess. Bill: I understand that it made railfans foam at the mouth. A number of them had to be put down before they determined the cause. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 13:48:10 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 15 13:44:50 2018. For the ones that weren't put down, that might explain their behavior on fan-trips. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 15 14:00:52 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 15 13:44:50 2018. Gee, all these years I thought it was because of rabies, as in rabid fans! |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 15 14:56:17 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 15 14:00:52 2018. Gee, all these years I thought it was because of rabies, as in rabid fans! It wasn't so much of a problems years all. Almost all the rail-fan trips on the LIRR made an obligatory stop at the Creedmoor Hospital siding. Half the train usually got off there and stayed for a few weeks. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 15 15:27:29 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 12:27:15 2018. I worked in Bellevue Hospital in the mid- '90's .On the "clinic" floor were many patients were in close proximity, UV lites were installed so as to provide indirect lighting. That is so UV light emitted would not make direct eye contact, and cause damage. It was hoped air born germs and viruses would be killed and provide a safer environment. Fortunately our ozone layer in the upper atmosphere shields life forms from UV rays our sun. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 15:29:52 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 15 15:27:29 2018. Thanks Avid.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 15 16:27:04 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 08:04:59 2018. R-16 was the next available contract number since R-12, 14, and 15 were taken so that would have been right. It’s too bad that the B of T didn’t order them right away. Since the precipitron ventilation system didn't work well and the B of T didn’t care for the trucks, cars of the R-11 design with axiflow fans and the B of T’s truck specs could have been built although in addition to that, it probably would have been a good idea to ditch the triggers in favor of the in cab door controls which were state of the art by that time anyhow. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 15 16:32:38 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 15 14:56:17 2018. There was a story about a LIRR fan trip that made a stop at Creedmoor for a photo stop. One of the hospital attendants requested that the railfans get back on the train as their rather aggressive photo activity was upsetting the patients. After the railfans were ordered back on the train, it departed leaving absolutely nobody remaining on the platform. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Oct 15 18:25:57 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 07:32:39 2018. Oh, the humanity! |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 19:19:19 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 15 06:59:16 2018. Thanks for this later photo, it kind of rings a bell - I was on the November 1967 R-11 fantrip, and IIRC the velon seats were still in place. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 19:20:35 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Oct 15 09:07:55 2018. Thanks for explaining the maps. I didn't know that. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 15 19:54:23 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 19:20:35 2018. I seem to recall that both maps had the BMT and IND divisions displayed thicker than the IRT and that whichever division the cars were operating on would be illuminated. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 20:13:19 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 15 16:27:04 2018. So if they built SAS in the 1950's, they'd have ordered hundreds more R16's to cover that. Thank God they didn't. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 16 15:10:07 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 15 20:13:19 2018. Don’t blame the R-16s per se. The problem was with the state of the art of the component parts that went into the total car. It was usually the GE equipment that failed due to the strange system that GE used that had the resistors cooled by a blower rather than by open air. The R-10s through 15s didn’t suffer the same fate since they had the older system of air cooled resistors which GE ultimately returned to starting with the R-26s. If the R-16s had been ordered as a completion of the R-11s, they would likely have performed as their contemporaries, the R-10s which outlasted the R-16s as built. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Tue Oct 16 17:13:08 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 15 19:54:23 2018. That is true.I was lucky enough back when the museum sold "buff stuff" to get an actual IND version of the map (no map casing however); just the map. BTW if we look at the original picture up top, we see the map lit up. Looks like for the BMT. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Tue Oct 16 17:14:39 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 19:19:19 2018. Still got my souvenir brochure too. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 16 19:09:05 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 19:19:19 2018. Was this the fantrip that stopped at Grand St before it actually opened?
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Oct 16 19:48:49 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 16 19:09:05 2018. Yes !Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 17 01:35:07 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 16 19:09:05 2018. Not the end sign which reads “13/14 St.” Some of those signs read “13/14 St-Fltn” for the 14 St Fulton service that ran till 1956. Although the R-11s were considered a “lightweight” car, I don’t know if either the B of T or the TA ever chanced running it on the old Fulton St el structure where usually only the Multis were permitted. The number 13 was actually intended for the Fulton St el service when it ran all the way to downtown Bkln and Park Row but by the time the R-11s arrived the el only ran as far as Rockaway Av and the only cars that ever displayed the 13 were the Green Hornet and the Zephyr, and AFAIK, the Zephyr only mad a few trips there before being relegated to the Fkln Shtl leaving only the Green Hornet to see somewhat regular Fulton service. There was some documentation that indicated that the number 17 was supposed to be used for the 14/Fulton service, but in practice, 14/Fltn trains carried 16 for the 14 St Line Manhattan bound and 13 for Fulton, Lefferts bound. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Oct 17 08:41:32 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 16 19:09:05 2018. Yes, photographed on 11/18/1967.-William A. Padron ["Grand St"] |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 17 11:02:10 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 16 19:09:05 2018. Yes. I took this same view, in black and white. I was probably to the left of the person who took this photograph. That was a good fantrip by the way. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 17 11:06:23 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 15 19:19:19 2018. Great photo! Nice to see this view in color. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Oct 17 14:27:08 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 16 19:09:05 2018. The station hasn't changed that much, aside from the lack of ads and that the center columns are now so dirty you can't read the station signs that remain. :-) |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 17 16:03:05 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 17 01:35:07 2018. That first word should be Note. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 17 18:31:20 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 17 01:35:07 2018. How much did each R-11 weigh? Were they even lighter than the R-32s as delivered? |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Oct 17 19:47:39 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 17 18:31:20 2018. How much did each R-11 weigh? Were they even lighter than the R-32s as delivered?R-11.....84,081 lbs. R-32.....70,000 lbs. 1964-65 .............79,930 lbs. 1988 rebuild Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Oct 17 20:06:09 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 17 18:31:20 2018. The R11 should weigh more since it's a single car. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Oct 17 22:50:14 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Oct 17 19:47:39 2018. That's a big difference. Did those R-11s have concrete floors? |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 17 23:33:10 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by r17-6599 on Tue Oct 16 17:13:08 2018. those were good times to buy stuff from the museum. Summer of 1988, they had a limited supply of mint 1958 edition maps - rolled up - these would have been installed on the trains.at an ERA NY Div. meeting, early 90s, someone was selling 3 of those late 40s hagstrom maps - one for each division highlighted - and asking price was $10 each. I didn't have the extra budget at the time - oh, the ones that "got away." |
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Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 17 23:41:21 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-11's - Before and After, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 15 14:56:17 2018. Maybe the ones that stayed were searching for the unfinished shell of the Creedmore station (with possible tiled walls). Heh! |
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