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| (1486192) | |
Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Sep 9 09:11:52 2018 https://pix11.com/2018/09/08/subway-station-reopens-after-17-years-at-world-trade-center-in-lower-manhattan/What a shame after the 90s and 2000's of beautiful station design and renovation, we take steps back with nondescript white tiles and a metal sign. |
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| (1486195) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 9 09:52:32 2018, in response to Former Cortland St Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Sep 9 09:11:52 2018. The Port Authority had a major influence and clearly trying to mimic in some way the white marble boondoggle of the PATH station.Yet, too cheap to put in more banisters on the broad staircases in the Oculus. . |
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| (1486231) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Sep 9 14:56:38 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 9 09:52:32 2018. The station should have been restored to its original dual contract appearance and forget the PA influence. MTA doesn’t interfere with PATH, don’t allow PA to interfere with MTA. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1486234) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 9 15:06:15 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by randyo on Sun Sep 9 14:56:38 2018. Freedom Tower does not replicate a Twin Tower, New PATH station is not a replica of old, so why bother.But they got some PA money. Without that, I think the TA would have simply never re-opened it. They'd tell you to walk to Rector or Chambers just as they told Bowling Green to walk to South Ferry rather than spend money. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Sep 9 15:16:36 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by randyo on Sun Sep 9 14:56:38 2018. IAWTP.The station looks so sterile. That's the first thing that occurred to me. Why didn't the MTA do a full restoration, original mosaics for tablets, tile bands on the walls etc. |
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| (1486241) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Sep 9 15:57:59 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 9 09:52:32 2018. And too cheap and just use black metal signs |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Sep 9 15:59:16 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Sun Sep 9 15:16:36 2018. It's horrible. |
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| (1486245) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Sep 9 16:54:55 2018, in response to Former Cortland St Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Sep 9 09:11:52 2018. I was through there on Friday- what caught my eye was the porous surface. Lots of steel dust is sure to get caught there. |
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| (1486254) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 9 18:08:18 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Sun Sep 9 15:16:36 2018. The white will gradually turn gray. It is not smooth, shiny, marble and cannot be wiped clean with a damp cloth. |
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| (1486255) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 9 18:10:14 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Sep 9 16:54:55 2018. As it gets dingy, they will match the dingy R62A's, which will be around quite a few more years. |
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| (1486288) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Sep 9 23:52:46 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Sep 9 16:54:55 2018. I haven't seen it yet, but I was concerned about how easy it was to clean off dirt and grafitti. Looks like my fears were justified. :-( |
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| (1486289) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Sep 9 23:54:31 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Sun Sep 9 15:16:36 2018. Aside from the mosaics, I don't think the Dual Contracts design is all that great either. Maybe a combination of the 2? |
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| (1486305) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 10 02:35:04 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Sep 9 16:54:55 2018. I’m not sure if the composition brake shoes now in use on NYCTA rolling stock will cause as much steel dust as the old steel ones. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Sep 10 10:27:05 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 10 02:35:04 2018. Ok, so there will be composition dust.Cleaning the walls should not be difficult. Special cleaning train can some and use high pressure steam/water jets to clean that wall, and anybody sleeping on the floor as well. Most stations would benifit from such washings say once every two weeks or sew. ROAR |
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| (1486337) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Sep 10 10:40:31 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Sun Sep 9 15:16:36 2018. The MTA did not do a retro-renovation because it could ot.Too many people have special interests in the site. They wanted a fitting memorial. I am not sure what those names are and what is written there, but it is surely approved by 164 special interest groups, which was undoubtedly plurality of some 64,000 interested parties. Welkom komrad to da demokratcy. ROAR |
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| (1486343) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 13:14:40 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by 3-9 on Sun Sep 9 23:54:31 2018. Thank you! People are just obsessed with the old designs for no good reason. I'm not saying that they should destroy dual contracts designs like they did in the 70s, but this was already destroyed. There is no point building a replica.Although I agree with another poster about how this design will get dirty, quickly. |
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| (1486344) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 13:15:21 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Sun Sep 9 15:16:36 2018. I disagree with it looking sterile. You just don’t like white designs. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Sep 10 13:22:02 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Sep 10 10:27:05 2018. Special cleaning train can some and use high pressure steam/water jets to clean that wall, and anybody sleeping on the floor as well.High pressure wash may loosen and remove tile grout. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1486349) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 14:12:01 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 13:14:40 2018. People like the original dual contract mosaics because they are nice to look at, colorful tilework, handmade craft - tile laying - mosaic graphics that are historic from another era - and yeah, just plain nice to look at. So why not do a replica as a kind of restoration.- Just my opinion. Though not original, it was done for the Canarsie 8th ave station., and a couple of those BMT stations south of Chambers on the Loop (I don't remember which ones). And yes, the BOT IND style tiling was lost - too bad - at least one section should have been saved for history at each station. It's also a criticism in London at some of the Yerkes & Central line tube stations - that restored tilework doesn't match the original. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 10 14:58:07 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Sep 10 10:40:31 2018. The MTA could have incorporated the memorial into a retro if it really wanted to. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 10 15:03:52 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 14:12:01 2018. While the station restoration on the Nassau St Line was done from the original Dual Contract design plans which were never installed, there were never any plans for a Dual Contract extension to 14/8 so the IND style tiles were the only ones that ever existed so there was never any “original" design to refer to. |
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| (1486361) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 15:10:17 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 10 15:03:52 2018. Thanks for the 14/8 info. re: never any original dual contracts designs - jogged the old memory here, now I remember reading (in Rogoff's articles probably), that the original plans only had the line going as far as 6th ave.Also - I've always found it interesting that the original Dual Contract design plans for the Nassau St. line were available for reference - so they were saved, instead of disposed as so much earlier historic material. I wonder where they were saved/ archived? Remaining Transit museum archives or elsewhere? |
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| (1486362) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 15:13:18 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 13:15:21 2018. So we agree to disagree - I'll buy the next beer - you choose the place, don't mind if the walls etc. are white... |
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| (1486364) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Sep 10 15:40:09 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 14:12:01 2018. Having splashes of color would probably contradict the memorial aspect of the station. |
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| (1486365) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 16:48:18 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by 3-9 on Mon Sep 10 15:40:09 2018. I will have to go and look over the station, but I agree with Randy O's post, that the station could still have been designed retro (basically restored to original appearance) and the MTA could have had a Memorial incorporated into the design. |
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| (1486366) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Sep 10 16:52:03 2018, in response to Former Cortland St Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Sep 9 09:11:52 2018. 17 years until it was fixed? That's the REAL shame! |
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| (1486369) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 18:58:49 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 14:12:01 2018. People like the original dual contract mosaics because they are nice to look at, colorful tilework, handmade craft - tile laying - mosaic graphics that are historic from another era - and yeah, just plain nice to look at. So why not do a replica as a kind of restoration.- Just my opinion. Because there are hundreds of such examples. There is no need for more. Meanwhile, any such replica would not be "handmade craft - tile laying" and would not be from "another era" other than a complete duplicate, which actually is a huge FU to modern design, saying that it is worthless and the old styles are better. |
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| (1486370) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 19:01:31 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 14:12:01 2018. Though not original, it was done for the Canarsie 8th ave station., and a couple of those BMT stations south of Chambers on the Loop (I don't remember which ones). And yes, the BOT IND style tiling was lost - too bad - at least one section should have been saved for history at each station.And in much the same way I don't feel the loss of the IND design. And in that case I don't even care despite the fact that the MTA deliberately removed the IND design as opposed to Cortlandt in which it was destroyed (yes I know it was replaced in the 70s, but I think they just covered it over so it was still restorable). |
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| (1486371) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 19:02:03 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 15:13:18 2018. Awesome post! |
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| (1486372) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 19:02:23 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Sep 10 13:22:02 2018. PWN3D! |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Sep 10 19:10:18 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 19:02:23 2018. PWN3D!ROAR ! Bill Newkirk |
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| (1486377) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Sep 10 20:25:25 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 10 18:58:49 2018. Good post. |
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| (1486396) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Sep 11 07:58:46 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Sep 10 19:10:18 2018. So use super-grout, or else just use enough pressure to remove the grim and not the tiles.Personaally, LION wood now encase said wall in a clear hard epoxy of somesort that could resist washing and vandals. ROAR |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Sep 11 14:03:05 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 14:12:01 2018. The IND lettering was used at Fulton and at Broad Streets. I think it should have been kept- it was original to those stations. At Fulton, the black and white tiles spelled out "FULT'N". Really.Just as I think Grand Street and 57/6th should retain their 1968 looks, even though it's not particularly attractive. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Sep 11 14:37:16 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Sep 11 14:03:05 2018. There's plenty of examples of IND design. Fulton and Broad are gems in their renovations. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Sep 11 16:48:07 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 15:10:17 2018. It might have been the transit museum since it was one of the officials of the transit museum who mentioned that he furnished the TA with the original specs for the restorations. |
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| (1486446) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 11 18:04:47 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Sep 11 07:58:46 2018. Polyurethane ? |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Sep 11 22:50:10 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Sep 11 14:37:16 2018. I agree about Grand and 57/6, and the renovations for Fulton and Broad. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 12 02:20:07 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Express Rider on Mon Sep 10 16:48:18 2018. The problem is, some families of 9/11 victims might have objected to that.They might have wanted the station the way it is. |
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| (1486477) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 12 02:23:00 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 10 14:58:07 2018. And families of 9/11 victims might very well have objected to that. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 12 02:24:57 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Sep 10 16:52:03 2018. A lot of that had to do with first recovery from the site that took a long time, then fights as some families of 9/11 victims wanted the entire site to become a park, and all kinds of other legal hassles and on top of it the PA not letting them likely working on it until after other buildings were built. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Sep 12 07:07:27 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 12 02:20:07 2018. I will have to ride down and visit this station. If the design had included a memorial, the families of those lost would probably have been contacted and meetings scheduled for their input. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Q4 on Wed Sep 12 08:19:01 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 12 02:24:57 2018. According to the New York Times Article (sorry I don't know how to link things on this site), the MTA started to work on the Station in 2015 after the site was turned over by the PA.https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/nyregion/cortlandt-street-subway-station-911.html |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 12 08:30:30 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 12 02:20:07 2018. That’s sounds like your typical BS. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Sep 12 17:48:54 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Sep 12 02:20:07 2018. The did not want the new 1 WTC to be a replica of a Twin Tower. They did not want the new PATH station to be a replica of the old WTC station. Logically, they would not want the replacement IRT station to be a replica of the old. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Sep 12 20:44:05 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Joe V on Wed Sep 12 17:48:54 2018. Not to mention, that station was last renovated in the 70s. Anything original was covered over. In 2001, the station looked like the 70s, not the original. |
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| (1486575) | |
Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Sep 12 20:46:43 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Sep 12 20:44:05 2018. In the 17 years since 9/11, half the labor force at least has turned over or work elsewhere. Few remember or know what it looked like on 9/10/2001. |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Sep 12 20:48:37 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Joe V on Wed Sep 12 20:46:43 2018. Exactly |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Sep 13 10:32:55 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Joe V on Wed Sep 12 17:48:54 2018. And besides they made an entry that looks like an eye.... looking right into the Oculus.ROAR |
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Re: Former Cortland St Station |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Sep 13 11:31:15 2018, in response to Re: Former Cortland St Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 9 18:10:14 2018. Aren't some of them 35 years old already? |
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