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| Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn (1442090) | |
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| (1442611) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 10 14:21:20 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sun Jul 9 20:33:11 2017. When I was in it in the 1970s, it was a Red Cross blood center and I saw no traces of anything even remotely transit related other than the general design of the building itself. |
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| (1442659) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Mon Jul 10 20:50:35 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by randyo on Mon Jul 10 14:21:20 2017. Hello again Randy OTHANKS for that information --- so it IS used by the Red Cross since the 1970's ! It obviously had some modifications here and there -- perhaps if and when it was changed from a suspected Substation. At any rate, after the streetcars ceased running across the Bklyn bridge in 1954 and were gone completely from Brooklyn by 1956, IF it was a BMT electric substation, it was no longer needed by that time. Its amazing it survived all alone sandwiched within all the new roads and ramps construction -- even the whole part of Adams Street is wiped out ! I wonder why it had street-barricades along the rear (east) wall sidewalk line stenciled NYCT and NYCTA !! Regards - Joe F |
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| (1442716) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Jul 11 13:42:08 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sun Jul 9 04:27:22 2017. Joe,Thank you so much for your detailed map & overlays. We (transit community and NY city history archiving) need more material like this. We can view the original photos of this complex, but for those of us around then, or not knowing anyone with first hand knowledge of this complex, pictorial aids/layouts like this are invaluable. Anyway, a similar thread about this building's relation to the Sands st. complex appeared on subchat sometime within the last year or so. I posted wondering if it was a street level fare control area, which obviously, from examining your photos/overlay it could not have been. My question is, I'd always thought that the Sands St. fare control area was an intermediate level between the platforms and the street - you walked up a staircase from the street, change booths & choppers/turnstiles at this first level, and then walked up another staircase to the platforms However, looking at Sands st. station photos, there doesn't appear to be a second, intermediate level between the street and platform level - that's why I thought this building might have been a street level entry point to the station. Can you explain the Sands St. fare control location arrangements further? Thank you very much in advance! |
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| (1442740) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 11 16:06:14 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by Express Rider on Tue Jul 11 13:42:08 2017. When I first went there to give blood, I also thought that it might have been some sort of fare control or waiting area but from what I have been reading, it wasn’t. |
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| (1442741) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by VictorM on Tue Jul 11 16:15:44 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Mon Jul 10 20:50:35 2017. I see MTA NYC Transit Emergency Response trucks parked in the fenced-in lot on the west side of the building in Google maps and street view, and there is an NYC Emergency Response Center across the street, so they may be related. |
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| (1442778) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jul 11 20:42:28 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Mon Jul 10 20:50:35 2017. Streetcars stopped running over the BB on March 6th, 1950. The former el-to-trolley rights-of-way were converted into traffic lanes in each direction. The completed lanes were opened in 1954. |
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| (1442779) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jul 11 20:45:33 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by randyo on Tue Jul 11 16:06:14 2017. Unless it went back to the bridge cable car era. |
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| (1442799) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Wed Jul 12 07:01:53 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by Express Rider on Tue Jul 11 13:42:08 2017. Hello Express Rider and EL KEEPER---> EL KEEPER -- THANKS for that correction !! Yes, you are quite correct about trolley service on the Brooklyn Bridge using the former EL tracks as ending in 1950. I got that 1950 date I actually knew of, jumbled up in a brain slip between the various dates of the rebuilding of the Brooklyn bridge Roadway deck from 2 lanes each way to 3 lanes each way -- including structural rebuilding -- which was all done between 1950 to 1953 (the bridge itself) and May 1954 finishing of the Cadman Plaza newly relocated Bridge on-off ramp roadways - when it was all fully completed. That 1954 date got crossed in my head. BTW -- The bridge engineers / contractors carefully removed, unbolted it completely in sections at a time, the outermost inside truss steel open web wall (the one between each single EL track and side-adjacent trolley track lane) and re-installed these removed trusses, removed in sectional increments, on top of the lower outer 8' high truss along the outer roadways of the Bridge. These inner trusses were carefully UNBOLTED from the bridge main structures where they were installed back in 1880-1883 and are now the actual re-purposed outer high truss girders along the outer roadway lanes since 1953-54 !!. THAT laborious process is what took so (3 years) long, including installing the countless rows of new long cross beams across the now 3 E/B and 3 W/B roadways to form a wide open rectangular box structure over the each ! =================================================== ---> EXPRESS RIDER -- thank you for your appreciation of my efforts. As far as fare collection, from what I recall hearing and reading very long ago, the fare collection was at street level under the overhead 4 El tracks and 6 platforms -- with a number of entrances -- but better you read these links (with photos, images)I provide BELOW which describe the internal layout of it all excellently. First link is BELOW: Brooklyn Bridge Sands St Terminal 1895 Interior Image BELOW is the 2nd page with detailed station diagrams and elevation drawings along with detailed descriptions of fare payments, payment areas, waiting areas - and descriptions of ground floor (street level) up thru the upper 2 levels of trains and platforms DETAILED descriptions with drawings and diagrams, waiting areas, fare collection locations and general layouts of the Sands St. station interior The MAIN PAGE LINK (here -->) MAIN PAGE ...... which at its left side, has the menu for many pages of other history details of the Brooklyn Bridge and its Park Row Terminal and transit operations. A Great read and very informative. Hope this answer you question. Regards - Joe F |
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| (1442801) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jul 12 07:26:24 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Wed Jul 12 07:01:53 2017. BTW -- The bridge engineers / contractors carefully removed, unbolted it completely in sections at a time, the outermost inside truss steel open web wall (the one between each single EL track and side-adjacent trolley track lane) and re-installed these removed trusses, removed in sectional increments, on top of the lower outer 8' high truss along the outer roadways of the Bridge. These inner trusses were carefully UNBOLTED from the bridge main structures where they were installed back in 1880-1883 and are now the actual re-purposed outer high truss girders along the outer roadway lanes since 1953-54 !!. THAT laborious process is what took so (3 years) long, including installing the countless rows of new long cross beams across the now 3 E/B and 3 W/B roadways to form a wide open rectangular box structure over the each !The Bridge is balanced between the two side spans (from tower to anchorage) and the center span. It was necessary to maintain that balance throughout the conversion. Those "cross beams across the now 3 [lane roadways]" are actually struts. They do not support any weight. Their purpose is to prevent the outer and inner trusses from bending towards one another at the top under load. The current bridge architecture with two trusses on each roadway and struts on the top, was one that Washington Roebling objected to on aesthetic grounds. |
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| (1442809) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Jul 12 10:00:49 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Wed Jul 12 07:01:53 2017. Thank you for these links! |
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| (1442840) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jul 12 13:59:35 2017, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Wed Jul 12 07:01:53 2017. I loved the Figure #9 (plan of Bridge & Elevated Railway Terminals). Compare that drawing to the one of the Kings County Elevated's station, on Pages 9 & 11 of THE TRACKS OF NEW YORK, Number 2, by Alan Paul Kahn and Jack May. Notice any differences?At some point before or during construction, the KCERR must have realized that their long and ugly passageway from their Sands St platforms to the cable cars were inadequate. So they connected to the Bridge cable cars by demolishing their old Tillary St station and connection their tracks to the right-of-way. Some of their cars were equipped with cable claws for a one seat ride across the bridge. When the BRT bought out the KCERR and electrified the lines, it used this inherited franchise to run all of its el lines over the Brooklyn Bridge. |
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| (1472808) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by displaced angeleno on Mon Apr 16 10:01:18 2018, in response to Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sat Jul 8 02:02:32 2017. > A provision was made for a proposed street to cross UNDER the bridge stone approach walls. Its old stone approach walls were separated by an original steel beams short bridge providing a space for a planned street to pass below it at the intersection of Fulton St, Prospect Street and Henry Street, that underpass street which was never built -- that short steel original span exists today. You can plainly see it here in this Google View looking towards the East River along Fulton Street along the south side of the Brooklyn Bridge approach.That is not a provision for a future street, but rather the former location of Main Street, which began at Fulton & Prospect Streets, and which was removed between Fulton and Front Streets with the construction of the BQE. York Street also had an underpass beneath the Brooklyn Bridge, but that was repurposed to contain the BQE. |
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| (1472811) | |
Re: 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Apr 16 10:52:59 2018, in response to 2 photos of the Park St (Ave) el in Brooklyn, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jul 5 18:30:38 2017. COOL! |
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