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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 23 13:20:17 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 23 13:10:51 2018. But the M Train is going to be mobbed thoughIf the demand is there, NYCT should have the equipment (not needed for the L) and the track capacity (shared with the J/Z, then the F, then the E) to run 15 tph. Just have 5 platform conductors available at Forest Hills to get everyone off the train quickly. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 23 13:29:02 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 23 13:10:51 2018. I wonder if running the "M" like the old Myrtle Ave Express over Broadway, would help? |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Feb 23 13:46:37 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by ftgreeneg on Fri Feb 23 13:19:40 2018. Rail provides for longer vehicles to make turns with the ease of shorter vehicles. A vehicle with foot-length in the triple digits on rails can make the same 90 degree turn as a standard bus with similar or increased ease. Not to mention greater passenger-capacity per paid operator. It's probably why there are any streetcars/trams left at all in the world in 2018.As an honorable mention, it's been claimed that you need a vehicle on a track for maximum flexibility and versatility in tunnels. Even in those places where buses go through transit tunnels, they are rather clumsy. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 23 14:13:27 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:15:47 2018. Tunnelrat: The Bulletins that you refer to are June 1960 and April 1963. There was a 1937 proposal to extend the then the then unbuilt Sixth Avenue Line due north under Central Park and then east to Queens via a tunnel at 72nd Street. This route would then join up with the IND at 36th Street. As you recall this was project T-19. Another proposal was put forth in 1950. t would branch off the then planned Second Avenue subway and cross the East River at YES, 76th STREET and run along 34th Avenue in Queens. This later proposal was re-presented in some detail in 1963. There is no mention of any preliminary boring done, only proposals. Nevertheless I could understand why you would favor the tunnel under 76th Street. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 14:23:05 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 23 14:13:27 2018. thanks larry.it seems that "76st" comes up a lot in transit proposals.the stubs at new lots-n-Livonia were supposed to go to 76st.in queens.exactualy where I don`t know. |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 23 14:41:20 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:31:45 2018. All caps is very hard to read. Everything seems to run together. |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 14:48:52 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 23 14:41:20 2018. point taken. |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 23 14:50:01 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 23 14:13:27 2018. Larry, please stop mentioning any proposal with any 76th Street proposal in them. Just look at Tunnelrat- he's salivating like one of Pavlov's dogs! |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 23 14:53:26 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 23 14:41:20 2018. it was either that, or the Braille typewriter! |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 14:54:29 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 23 14:50:01 2018. next time I see you I will bite you. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 14:54:58 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by ntrainride on Fri Feb 23 09:53:15 2018. Back when I was going to Queens College, I would often take a roundabout way to get back home to Wash hts by taking the Jamaica Line to the A at ENY. While changing from my bus to the BMT, I would often shop along Jamaica Ave in the area of Parsons and Sutphin Blvds. |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 23 15:37:20 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 14:23:05 2018. Steve: Do you recall that sometime in the 60/70's they wanted to build a station in the Livonia Avenue Yards. It was to be called "Flatlands Avenue". Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Feb 23 15:57:07 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 23 15:37:20 2018. sure do,big mistake not building it. |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 23 16:27:32 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 14:54:29 2018. Aw shit, that means rabies shots! You know how much I hate needles! |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Fri Feb 23 19:24:43 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Feb 23 13:46:37 2018. Great explanation. Honestly speaking I still don't see streetcar (besides the obvious cool factor of course) being worth the extra cost of buying and to maintain over buses that pretty much serves the same function especially with articulated buses spreading. |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Feb 23 19:26:04 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 23 13:11:54 2018. Wednesday Morning 3 AM |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Feb 23 19:28:38 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:31:45 2018. I could read it OK. All caps makes it more dramatic! :-) |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Feb 23 20:40:48 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:21:59 2018. I searched and found the post I was referring to. See the second post down. Also included other posts from the same thread. They are pasted in here:----------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions Posted by Edwards! on Mon Sep 9 12:07:38 2013, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 9 11:09:04 2013. ... the original plan had the line leaving the Queens Blvd route at Queens Plaza...through the yards taking over the Rockaway lines row on the LIRR.. It was one track bidirectional express service. The 76th st subway tunnel would have connected to the QB local under Broadway and Steinway...[there is rumored there is a IND tunnel under that street built for that purpose,now used by the NYPD] The 63rd st tunnel/subway joined to two separate routes at 41av and Northern Blvd.. What missing is the Northern Blvd station that would have sat exactly where they are constructing the LIRR tunnel under that street. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions Posted by renee gil on Mon Sep 9 12:20:08 2013, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Edwards! on Mon Sep 9 12:07:38 2013. The 76th st subway tunnel would have connected to the QB local under Broadway and Steinway...[there is rumored there is a IND tunnel under that street built for that purpose,now used by the NYPD] juat outside the Steinway ave station, there is a door [on the catwalk]. a look through the door will reveal a lower level tunnel. i'm pretty sure this tunnel was built for the IND Second System. a line [76th st subway tunnel] would have split away from the QB local tracks just outside of this station, and would have run across the East River and into Manhattan. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions Posted by renee gil on Tue Sep 10 00:04:17 2013, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by renee gil on Mon Sep 9 12:20:08 2013. it's on the southbound side btw. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Sep 9 22:01:37 2013, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by renee gil on Mon Sep 9 12:20:08 2013. Does Tunnelrat know about this one??? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions Posted by renee gil on Mon Sep 9 23:53:46 2013, in response to Re: Bellmouths and tunnel expansions, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Sep 9 22:01:37 2013. of course. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 24 02:44:58 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by ftgreeneg on Fri Feb 23 19:24:43 2018. aside from 'heresy' you are missing the concept of multiple cars in a train being more efficient. Frank Sprague's first deployment of MU control was for streetcars in Richmond VA IINM. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 24 06:37:45 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Feb 23 13:46:37 2018. Also, a diesel bus tunnel needs far better ventilation than an electric streetcar tunnel, and it needs to be wider because you can't keep the bus on a precise track. And if you go with electric buses you're back to much of the expense of a streetcar. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 24 08:43:13 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by ftgreeneg on Fri Feb 23 19:24:43 2018. Thank you.This is one given explanation I've read regarding why streetcars remain in Boston. It's something like being able to take a bus outside the Downtown area and have that bus "become a train" and go underground once Downtown. And when you go to Boston and see how many people are on those streetcars, it becomes difficult to imagine buses covering the entire operation. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 24 16:08:37 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 24 02:44:58 2018. I don’’t believe the Richmond Va experiment was for MU operation. The way I recall the article from the “Trolley Car Treasury” each streetcar had its own M/M and the cars were all started simultaneously to show that the power generating plant could sustain the operation of a number of cars on the system without a failure. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 24 16:54:47 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 24 16:08:37 2018. you are correct assuming wikipedia is authoritative. They show him masterminding the Richmond system, but claim the MU concept was first installed on the South Side Rapid Transit (later known as the Jackson Park Branch) Thanks for causing me to learn more about this. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Sat Feb 24 18:44:05 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 24 02:44:58 2018. Yeah i wasn't talking about MU lightrail that makes sense in terms of # of passengers moved per crew. I'm thinking more along the lines of streetcars for ex Toronto, New Orleans, San Fran etc which tend to be single car. |
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Re: MU streetcars brandedl ight rail |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 24 19:28:40 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by ftgreeneg on Sat Feb 24 18:44:05 2018. FWIW, I call them all streetcars. Now as to your example of Toronto, with the Bombardier Flexities now in delivery, TTC has finally woken up to evicting autos from the tracks on at least one line. If they go MU, that will give them better service. Septa is now contemplating purchasing new cars. They will have to either buy very long 'single cars' or go MU because just like Boston and SF, they try to squeeze 5 routes into a tunnel for 30+ blocks. That limits rush hour service to 10minute headways which suck bigtime.In Boston, many trains are two units because they need a Breda on each run to provide low floor accessibility but the Kinkis are needed for volume. Much of the Boston system is private ROW on routes built before the flacks who coined light rail were born. In SF (across the Bay from me) Muni runs single car trains nights and weekends, and of course the PCCs are, but in general the J, K(T), L, M, N, run as 2 car trains in base day as well as rush. SF Muni used to pay a second driver to ride in the second unit with nothing to do but collect fares out on the street. AFAIK Boston still does even though both systems have door and propulsion MU control. In SF, given POP, and barrier fare control in the tunnel under Market St, the second driver no longer exists. Because I am old enough to remember multiple examples of streetcars running in exclusive ROW for some of their routes (in DC where I grew up, Shaker Heights, vestigial evidence in Chicago, and parts of the last of Baltimore, as well as segments of Muni) I don't consider, PROW makes a streetcar a light rail vehicle. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 24 19:33:49 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by ftgreeneg on Sat Feb 24 18:44:05 2018. San Fran has a combo of single and multiple, but new Orleans are all single, and they have been expanding routes. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Sat Feb 24 22:22:24 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Feb 24 19:33:49 2018. Oh ok haven't been to San Fran yet. I know about New Orleans, Toronto and Atlanta recently got a street car (single car). I guess unlike with busses there value in knowing if they wanted to they COULD expand to 2 cars maybe 3. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 25 09:33:22 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by ftgreeneg on Sat Feb 24 18:44:05 2018. Still, it comes down to the vehicle length per crew member, or perhaps more properly, the capacity for passengers transported per crew member. Number of sections on either bus or streetcar is only a secondary matter.My main point is simply that while you would be hard pressed to imagine an operator of a 100 foot long bus making a typical 90 degree turn at a typical city intersection, you can much more easily imagine an operator of a streetcar of the same length performing this maneuver. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 25 09:38:11 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 25 09:33:22 2018. NYCT articulated buses aren't 100' long of course. But they do make 120 degree turns from 4th Ave onto 14th Street in Manhattan. It isn't pretty, but they don't kill anyone either. |
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Re: MU streetcars brandedl ight rail |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 25 09:48:29 2018, in response to Re: MU streetcars brandedl ight rail, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 24 19:28:40 2018. I don't think TTC's Flexities can function MU -- even Union Station can't platform two of them at once IIRC. The Flexity itself appears to be meant as its own "MU," being almost double a CLRV. I'm not sure how much longer it can get without blocking intersections while at stops. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 25 10:01:09 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Feb 21 13:09:56 2018. I have read, it was the large business owners on Jamaica Avenue (Macy's, Gertz, et al) who wanted the elevated removed.It was only Macy's. They had just built a new store in Rego Park. They moved out of Jamaica 2 weeks after service was suspended. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 25 10:08:56 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 25 10:01:09 2018. I thought the Rego Park store went up around 1967, and they head to cut a V in their property as an old lady would not sell her house. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 25 11:45:49 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 23 07:30:18 2018. Point is, the companies did not completely die off. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Feb 25 13:40:47 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 22 14:20:07 2018. The father of NIMBYism? |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Sun Feb 25 13:58:32 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 25 10:08:56 2018. Yeah, that would be about the right time frame. IIRC, it was not a V but a square notch in the side of the parking lot (which surrounded the complex).Is the house still around there? I think the lady owner in question is long gone by this time. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by VictorM on Sun Feb 25 14:13:59 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Sun Feb 25 13:58:32 2018. No, it's been replaced by small strip mall and a bank. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 25 14:14:40 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Sun Feb 25 13:58:32 2018. No. When she moved on or died, they knocked it down, and built a small commercial building. It was pictured on Subchat some years ago with an HSBC bank branch. |
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Re: MU streetcars brandedl ight rail |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 25 15:21:22 2018, in response to Re: MU streetcars brandedl ight rail, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 24 19:28:40 2018. Even here in Bkln the trolleys had sections of PRW. The ones I’m most aware of are Norton’s Point, Canarsie and the short ROW along side Shell Rd between Neptune and Surf Aves. I also thing that the Flushing - Ridgewood cars ran on the PRW formerly used by the Myrtle Av El before the structure was built. |
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Re: MU streetcars brandedl ight rail |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Feb 26 00:20:38 2018, in response to Re: MU streetcars brandedl ight rail, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 24 19:28:40 2018. TTC has finally woken up to evicting autos from the tracks on at least one line.Not sure which one you're talking about, there's two: sometime within the past 10 years, they moved the 512 St. Claire back to the dedicated ROW it had in the 1930s. The second would be the experiment for King St, with the 504/514 shared portion on King being limited to private vehicles travelling at most one block before making a right turn, except overnights when cabs will be allowed to run through (no mention of Uber and the like). |
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Re: MU streetcars brandedl ight rail |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 26 00:48:18 2018, in response to Re: MU streetcars brandedl ight rail, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Feb 26 00:20:38 2018. King St. Reports via streetsblog were positive on speeding throughput. |
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