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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 14 20:31:17 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 16:47:23 2017. And the SAS. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Fri Dec 15 01:42:37 2017, in response to RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by GojiMet86 on Fri Dec 1 10:23:22 2017. On that map it looks like Belmont Park station was moved from the spur to the main line which could then be served by the Hempstead (and other) branch(es). |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 02:05:22 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:34:46 2017. Heh. One of the reasons for government takeover of mass transit is to have as few feet as possible anywhere near the fire. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Dec 15 02:41:26 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 1 17:43:50 2017. They have Vuchic/ SEPTA disease.How dare they copy the Germans and their functional S-Bahn networks! LIRR has enough problems, but imagine them linking up their services with a schlock outfit like NJT. And yet, SNCF and RATP manage to get along to operate a joint railway service. Hell, RER A is basically LIRR + MNRR + NJT's ridership what's essentially one line. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Dec 15 02:43:47 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 14 08:43:51 2017. People who believe in such regional systems are entirely caught up in moving equipment all over the placeIt's essentially the application of rapid transit techniques to "mainline" railroads. People may not necessarily ride through from one side of the subway to another, but we essentially through run the subway from one end to the other. Why can't we apply this to the railway networks so we're not building giant caves under Manhattan for "capacity" reasons. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 04:22:33 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 16:47:23 2017. False comparison. And as far as that goes, the rest of the Myrtle Avenue line ought to still be here. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 04:26:17 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Dec 15 02:43:47 2017. That is not done in too many places; even Karlsruhe is unoriginal. The LIRR was going to run into the subway if not for the city takeover, besides.And if not for NYC's steam laws and the 200-foot clearance for bridges over the Hudson River, there would be overhead diesel railroads in Manhattan instead of stranding them on the banks of the Hudson and East Rivers. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 04:32:01 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Dec 15 02:41:26 2017. How dare they copy the Germans and their functional S-Bahn networksThat's not what they did, and the functionality thereof is questionable. Hell, RER A is basically LIRR + MNRR + NJT's ridership what's essentially one line That line does not extend anywhere near the distance out of Paris that NYC's commuter railroads do. And it has several branches, so it is not one line. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 11:38:22 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Dec 15 02:41:26 2017. I had originally thought through-routing was the answer to NYP's congestion issues, but there are a few things that make it workable elsewhere but unworkable here:1. Equipment need to be fully compatible with stations and ROW on both sides. The electrification differences preclude everyone's MUs, and considering MNRR had to go with third rail for the M8s into NYP, a universal MU is a pipe dream. The mix of high and low platforms on NJT means only NJT equipment should go there, as MNRR's Shoreliners lack long doors. Making every railroad buy long door equipped cars for a handful of NJT stations is an unnecessary burden, and in LIRR's case the extra doors would be a complete waste of space. 2. Where through routing works, trains are of a similar length / passenger capacity throughout most of the network. If there are delays on the incoming side, a substitute can be handed off without causing further issues later in the day. LIRR trains are 6-14 cars long, MNRR are 6-12 cars long, and NJT are 3-14 cars long. The added requirement that trains handed off be of roughly the same capacity makes scheduling harder and emergency substitutions even more difficult. SEPTA pulled it off because the two 'sides' were roughly the same after they hacked off much of the RDG's network. MBTA can pull it off for similar reasons. But the NY area railroads have a lot of work to do to get to that level. Maybe in 50 years. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 13:14:16 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 11:38:22 2017. Metro-North is not going to NYP. $250 million does not buy very much these days.And forgot that the LIRR and what is now Metro-North used to be majority low platform, until the MTA came along and messed everything up? Could have gone all low platform for cheaper. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 13:15:45 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 11:38:22 2017. Metro-North is not going to NYP. $250 million does not buy very much these days.And forgot that the LIRR and what is now Metro-North used to be majority low platform, until the MTA came along and messed everything up? Could have gone all low platform for cheaper. PS. Part of the MTA messing things up is converting the former New Haven RR catenary wire to 60 Hertz. Never mind Amtrak going with 25kV 60Hz for New Haven to Boston. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Dec 15 14:03:56 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Dec 15 02:43:47 2017. which is precisely why so many of Amtrak's trains run DC (or south) through to Boston--most of the pax change out in NYC, but not all. Even with the slow shuffle of the crew change it is still faster than changing ends for two separate trains. The intense stupidity of having 4 different electrical systems on EMUs serving the several stations is something that must change. As to low platform bigots, the point of roll on roll off LEVEL platforms is rapid entry/exit.The Illinois Central figured that out in the 1920s. The facts have not changed. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 15 14:26:08 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 04:32:01 2017. Like you've ever been on an S-Bahn. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 15 16:42:39 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 02:05:22 2017. That doesn't work everywhere. While the legislation creating the NYCTA specifically exempted the agency from PSC oversight, the Boston MBTA was kept under the jurisdiction of the Mass Public Utilities Commission at leas according to a MBTA supervisor I knew there. The only authorities the constituent agencies of the MTA can't escape are the FRA in the case of rail operations and the ICC regarding buses. It might not be a bad idea to place the MTA and its sub agencies back under the supervision of a regulatory state agency to compel the MTA to meet a strict set of standards. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 17:15:49 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 16:47:23 2017. MNRR to Penn is absolutely coming. It was a stroke of brilliance adding in the Bronx stops - while not ideal from the railroad's perspective (with no stops they could get away with no additional tracks and use less trains to serve it, not to mention not having to amend the agreement with CT about stopping in the Bronx), the Bronx politicians are now "on board" with getting this done, along with Westchester and the entire state of Connecticut.Too bad they cut the Astoria stop, or they'd have some Queens pols too. I also suspect a Northern Blvd stop would have been well patronized. As it stands now Queens has reason to side with the LIRR on keeping their slots. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 15 19:46:33 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Dec 15 02:41:26 2017. Don't kid yourself. Europe has plenty of traditional stub end services. Not all of Paris is RER, which is a glorified subway. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 15 19:47:37 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 11:38:22 2017. And most SEPTA lines after 35 years of practice still cannot hit 90% OTP. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 15 19:52:51 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Dec 15 02:43:47 2017. The concept won't work here on railroads. Tremendous waste of reverse peak train miles on trains with large crew sizes, incompatible signal systems, speed control, electrical systems, and rolling stock. Service planning and schedule changes become impossible.The subways runs through because they cannot be yarded. But the J, L, and 7 are simply sent right back where they came from. We have Sunnyside and West Side Yard. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 15 20:01:34 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 17:15:49 2017. One of the reasons rumored that Helena Williams got fired is that she and Long Island politicians did not want to surrender Penn Station slots to MN once LIRR diverts many trains to ESA. Since the MTA is LIRR's de facto Board of Directors, MTA can take them and hand them over to Metro North, even though those slots were grandfathered to the LIRR during Pennsy days. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 15 20:01:36 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 17:15:49 2017. One of the reasons rumored that Helena Williams got fired is that she and Long Island politicians did not want to surrender Penn Station slots to MN once LIRR diverts many trains to ESA. Since the MTA is LIRR's de facto Board of Directors, MTA can take them and hand them over to Metro North, even though those slots were grandfathered to the LIRR during Pennsy days. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 20:21:14 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 15 19:52:51 2017. Nowadays a lot of NYC subway lines have major reverse-peak ridership. A few examples I've observed:- I've ridden the 4 toward Woodlawn in the morning rush and not seen empty seats till about a few stops before the end. - The Q to/from 96th has heavy reverse ridership. - The northbound AM 6 is packed to 68th and not empty thereafter. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 20:58:07 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 15 20:01:36 2017. Amtrak would have the say there.It's not going to happen. There is no money put forth for it. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 20:59:18 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 15 19:52:51 2017. It doesn't work the way he's claiming on RER either. The closest NYC came to that was (almost) having LIRR run into the subway. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Dec 15 21:25:44 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 20:21:14 2017. Nowadays a lot of NYC subway lines have major reverse-peak ridership.The MTA does not examine their hourly ride totals, until somebody publicizes their obvious oversights. Then they issue a statement that nobody could have predicted such growth. Case in point is the Canarsie Line. It took them 10 years to notice that it was the most crowded Brooklyn-Manhattan crossing. They did not use the current demand, when they ordered the R143's for CBTC use. A comparison of the 2000 and 2015 NYMTC's Hub Bound Reports shows that the outbound hourly morning totals are consistent for these two years for the Lex express and local at the 60th St cordon. You will have to wait a couple of years for NYMTC to release 2017 data that would include the SAS. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 22:23:31 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 17:15:49 2017. not to mention not having to amend the agreement with CT about stopping in the BronxNY could just say, OK fine, we'll just run all the East Bronx trains from Port Chester, and deny CT commuters a route to Penn. So I think NY has the upper hand in those negotiations. I do wonder how they will schedule the whole thing. They can't double the total number of trains from the New Haven Division to NYC, but on the other hand they can't halve the frequency of trains to GCT either. Especially off-rush-hour: people will want half-hourly service to both Penn and GCT, but that's a lot more trains. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Fri Dec 15 22:41:36 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 15 20:01:34 2017. Yes, of course. Many on this board for years asserted that LIRR would NEVER give uptheir slots. I often pointed out that the MTA owns the LIRR and can make them do whatever it wants. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Fri Dec 15 22:43:20 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 20:58:07 2017. Lol. You are truly delusional. |
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Posted by K. Trout on Fri Dec 15 22:47:41 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 22:23:31 2017. New Rochelle could be used as the northbound terminal during off-peak hours. I don't think every GCT train would need to stop there for connections; perhaps every other train could have a scheduled connection. This would be not too dissimilar to the New Canaan branch which runs hourly off-peak.(Incidentally, that would effectively be a revival of a service which ended in 1931.) |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 22:56:13 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 22:23:31 2017. NY could just say, OK fine, we'll just run all the East Bronx trains from Port Chester, and deny CT commuters a route to Penn. So I think NY has the upper hand in those negotiations.Wasn't suggesting CT would make it difficult, just that it's something non-trivial that needs to get done due to adding the Bronx stops. As for scheduling, a press release said there would be 4TPH on the line off peak, 8-10 TPH peak. That suggests (off peak) two express and two locals, thus exactly what GCT has. The NH line can totally support an express service doubling - they typically need 7-8 open cars as it is on the off peak expresses. The locals I can see being a shuttle to New Rochelle where they will meet the GCT locals, which comfortably run with 6 open cars. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 23:06:59 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 22:56:13 2017. Actually thinking more about the local scheduling, they could do something neat like each hour:NYP-New Rochelle GCT-Stamford -- GCT-New Rochelle NYP-Stamford This way, each hour there's one direct and one indirect route to the local stops. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 06:10:06 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by K. Trout on Fri Dec 15 22:47:41 2017. New Rochelle could be used as the northbound terminal during off-peak hours. I don't think every GCT train would need to stop there for connections; perhaps every other train could have a scheduled connection.Yeah, maybe they'll do that. Half of all off-peak trains already stop at New Rochelle (all the Stamford trains) - maybe half of the New Haven trains would stop there for a connection. I wonder if they'll make connecting passengers inbound cross over (NYC-bound Amtrak trains stop on what would generally be the outbound express track, to reduce crossover complexity for the trains immediately south of the station). |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 07:21:56 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Italianstallion on Fri Dec 15 22:41:36 2017. LIRR and MN are not the same company, but have a common owner. Each RR does not have a Board of Directors - their owner does. It's not a cut and dry legal issue, |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 07:23:03 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 20:58:07 2017. MTA owns the slots. Amtrak has nothing to say about it. MTA has capital money to do it. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 07:23:57 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 22:23:31 2017. My guess is that they will be New Rochelle trains. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 07:26:29 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 20:21:14 2017. Ever been a a Queens bound #7 in the AM rush ? They don't need a train every 2 minutes. Maybe every 8.Suburban counties s are nothing like the outer boros or upper east side. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 07:27:42 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 15 20:59:18 2017. RER would be like a Jamaica or Flushing - Newark service. That's about it. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 07:39:36 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 07:21:56 2017. Each RR does not have a Board of Directors - their owner does. It's not a cut and dry legal issueSo their owner's Board of Directors makes all the decisions. It's not a cut and dried political issue because LI voters have a say and may object to a reduced number of trains to Penn. But it is a cut and dried legal issue - the MTA Board decides, period. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 07:44:30 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 22:56:13 2017. The NH line can totally support an express service doublingSure the capacity is there. But twice as many trains to New Haven each hour costs a lot of money. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 08:37:36 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 07:39:36 2017. But the LIRR slots predate MTA, and there is the concept of grandfathering - maybe or maybe not. Not so cut and dry. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 10:06:33 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 08:37:36 2017. That is only a legal issue if there is a covenant in the agreement where the MTA takes over the LIRR specifying that the MTA can never surrender any of those slots. I somehow doubt such a covenant exists. Otherwise it is only a political issue. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Dec 16 12:12:45 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 07:26:29 2017. I would say that is why the 7 needs bidirectional express. Get the extra trains back to Flushing ASAP for the next round of incoming trains.That's also why the LIRR third / second track program is important. The ability to get a train back to the suburbs for another trip is better equipment utilization. Ideally the reverse-peak trains would have a lot of semi-expresses which stop only at the employment centers (Mineola, Hicksville, Huntington, whichever Ronkonkoma line stops have employment / colleges nearby). |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 12:56:59 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Dec 16 12:12:45 2017. Most of them head back to the yard after 830am.By the time they get back to Suffolk County, rush hour is long over. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 16 14:02:13 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 07:26:29 2017. actually, per an NYT article quoting MTA a couple years ago, MN now has very significant reverse commuting because of office and other jobs north of the Bronx. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 15:33:04 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 16 14:02:13 2017. Which they handle quite well without the fantasy of run-thru NJT trains. Imagine if they had to wait for a 20 minute late train from Long Branch or Dover, or it was cancelled that morning. NJT cancels train daily at the drop of a hat. Nobody in their right mind would want to link up their operations with them.They also need to empty out GCT. Madison Av Yard no longer exists. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Dec 16 15:39:09 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 10:06:33 2017. I agree. I am a lawyer (retired). Even if there is some covenant, the MTA's control allows them to fire any recalcitrant staff at LIRR and put in people who will do what MTA wants. Sometimes practicalities trump technicalities. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Dec 16 15:42:30 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 07:27:42 2017. I would say Mineola-New Brunswick.Also Stamford-Jamaica, Stamford-Newark. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Dec 16 15:47:36 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Dec 16 12:12:45 2017. Prior to the 1964 World’s Fair on the Flushing Line, AM 111 St Layups discharged passengers upon arrival at T/Sq and ran light back to 111 St to lay up. Once the World’s Fair opened those same trains not only ran back in service, but ran to Willets Pt and laid up from there in order to get fair employees to work. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Dec 16 15:53:37 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 15 20:01:34 2017. All this inter agency rivalry seems to negate the whole purpose of establishing the MTA in the first place. Imagine if certain lines on the NYCTS were “grandfathered” in. If that were the case the Astoria Line could never have been turned over completely to the BMT Division and the Chrystie St merger of the BMT and IND would never have taken place. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 16:18:06 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by randyo on Sat Dec 16 15:53:37 2017. Not a good analogy. LIRR and MN are still separate railroads. |
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Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 16 17:56:36 2017, in response to Re: RPA: The Fourth Regional Plan: Create a fully integrated, regional transit system, posted by randyo on Sat Dec 16 15:53:37 2017. Au contraire. A very good analogy. MN and LIRR are behaving as if they are stillseparate entities rather than wholly owned divisions. We the riders/taxpayers are really not very interested in corporate ancient history--we want trains on time, convenient, clean, and don't care about paint schemes, uniform colors/buttons or any of that.They curtrently seem to behave as PRR and NYC did after the merger. |
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