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(1457193)

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Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Allan on Wed Dec 6 12:50:13 2017

Is there a plan somewhere to go CBTC on QB at some point in time?

I ask because I see transponders installed at various spots (a lot of them on the NB express track at Roosevelt).

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(1457214)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by R30A on Wed Dec 6 14:14:47 2017, in response to Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Allan on Wed Dec 6 12:50:13 2017.

Yes. Installation is happening now.

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(1457219)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Dec 6 14:26:56 2017, in response to Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Allan on Wed Dec 6 12:50:13 2017.

It's the next line to get CBTC after the Flushing line.
Transponders are installed but nothing is wired to them from what I can tell.

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(1457221)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Dec 6 15:14:04 2017, in response to Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Allan on Wed Dec 6 12:50:13 2017.

Would love to know why they didn't just go with coded track circuits like every other transit system in the country.

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(1457222)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Dec 6 15:14:15 2017, in response to Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Allan on Wed Dec 6 12:50:13 2017.

Would love to know why they didn't just go with coded track circuits like every other transit system in the country.

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(1457231)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by nasadowsk on Wed Dec 6 15:53:37 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Dec 6 15:14:15 2017.

Because that's not a job-creating project.

Transit in this area is about creating jobs and transferring wealth, not about moving people (or it'd look a LOT different)

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(1457235)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 6 16:13:17 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by nasadowsk on Wed Dec 6 15:53:37 2017.

It's also a goal to spend as much money as possible and be bamboozled by contractors.

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(1457257)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by randyo on Wed Dec 6 17:35:12 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by nasadowsk on Wed Dec 6 15:53:37 2017.

From what I have heard, the 3 CBTC systems aren't even supposed to be compatible with each other which makes little sense, but then it IS the MTA! Although CBTC is supposed to mean Communication Based Train Control, due to the various shutdowns that have been and will be taking place, the initials are taking on new meanings: Catch Bus To Canarsie, Catch Bus To Corona, and now Catch Bus To Continental.

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(1457275)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by sand box john on Wed Dec 6 19:58:25 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Dec 6 15:14:04 2017.

Would love to know why they didn't just go with coded track circuits like every other transit system in the country.

Because coded track circuits signaling and train control are considered dated obsolete technology. The MTA chose to leapfrog that technology and take the plunge into CBTC.

There is noise in WMATAland about dumping coded track circuits signaling and train control for CBTC to increase TPH. Never mind the fact that WMATA barely has enough rolling stock to fill the peak time sheets they run today.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(1457288)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by ModelRider on Wed Dec 6 21:50:03 2017, in response to Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Allan on Wed Dec 6 12:50:13 2017.

Construction started December last year and is set to be completed in 2022.

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(1457303)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Dec 7 07:20:57 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by sand box john on Wed Dec 6 19:58:25 2017.

It's not dated and obsolete, it's proven and reliable.

Anyone with a cell phone or OTA digital television knows how much less reliable those systems are compared with a hard wired connection. Anyone with a data plan knows how much more expensive wireless data is than wired.

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(1457304)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Dec 7 07:21:36 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by randyo on Wed Dec 6 17:35:12 2017.

LOL! Nice.

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(1457310)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by sand box john on Thu Dec 7 08:02:41 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Dec 7 07:20:57 2017.

It's not dated and obsolete, it's proven and reliable.

The techno nerds of today that are in charge of decision making believe otherwise.

Anyone with a cell phone or OTA digital television knows how much less reliable those systems are compared with a hard wired connection. Anyone with a data plan knows how much more expensive wireless data is than wired.

Things would be considerably worse and more expensive if we were still living under the heavily regulated monopolies of the past.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(1457354)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 7 15:27:33 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by sand box john on Thu Dec 7 08:02:41 2017.

"Anyone with a cell phone or OTA digital television knows how much less reliable those systems are compared with a hard wired connection. "

When was TV reception ever completely hard-wired?

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(1457370)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by The Silence on Thu Dec 7 17:11:45 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Dec 6 15:14:04 2017.

because that worked SSSOOO well in Washington...

The subsurface lines in London are having the exact same system installed.



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(1457371)

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video Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by The Silence on Thu Dec 7 17:12:00 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by The Silence on Thu Dec 7 17:11:45 2017.



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(1457373)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Strike_Mark on Thu Dec 7 17:16:16 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Dec 6 14:26:56 2017.

Nothing ever gets wired to transponders, they are stand alone equipment.

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(1457386)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 7 18:08:35 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by ModelRider on Wed Dec 6 21:50:03 2017.

By the time itís completed, it will be obsolete!

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(1457394)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Strike_Mark on Thu Dec 7 18:55:29 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by randyo on Wed Dec 6 17:35:12 2017.

The 7 line CBTC supplied by Thales doesnít need to be comparable with other CBTC systems unless servic from Hudson Yards to Astoria is in the works. Also, Siemens recently installed CBTC equipment on the Prospect Park IND line so that the TA can test systems from other vendors so they can make their different systems comptable.

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(1457395)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Dec 7 19:11:14 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Dec 7 07:20:57 2017.

The 20-year-olds who run everything these days seem to think that anything older than they are is obsolete.

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(1457421)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by sand box john on Thu Dec 7 22:19:15 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by The Silence on Thu Dec 7 17:11:45 2017.

because that worked SSSOOO well in Washington...

It work extremely well when you don't put incompetent morons in charge of making decision on how thing are maintained.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(1457422)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by sand box john on Thu Dec 7 22:26:37 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Dec 7 19:11:14 2017.

The 20-year-olds who run everything these days seem to think that anything older than they are is obsolete.

They are also clueless on how thing were done prior to the existence of all the stuff they take for granted today.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(1457447)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 8 13:52:50 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by The Silence on Thu Dec 7 17:11:45 2017.

You know that CBTC systems can be compromised by nation state level actors working from anywhere in the world, right?

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(1457492)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 8 18:51:50 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Strike_Mark on Thu Dec 7 18:55:29 2017.

But the ENY-assigned car roster will be quite a mess.
Canarsie CBTC cars
Queen IND CBTC cars
Then whatever is laying around for the Jamaica Line.

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(1457497)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 8 19:31:31 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Strike_Mark on Thu Dec 7 18:55:29 2017.

The problem with the Flushing Lineís CBTC not being compatible with anything else is that Flushing Line cars are maintained at CIYd as are the L Line's equipment so the rest of the system has to be compatible with the systems used on those lines.

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(1457509)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by R30A on Fri Dec 8 21:35:10 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 8 19:31:31 2017.

They can just use the Auxiliary Wayside signaling system for trips to and from the yard. Just have to avoid the peak.

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(1457518)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Dec 9 06:11:02 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by sand box john on Thu Dec 7 22:19:15 2017.

"It work extremely well when you don't put incompetent morons in charge of making decision on how thing are maintained."

When the motives behind management are political (using a euphemism here) competent managers are a threat, because they reveal the rest as lazy and willfully incompetent.

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(1457525)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Dec 9 08:33:44 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by sand box john on Thu Dec 7 22:19:15 2017.

Simply following the documented maintenance procedures would have worked wonders. The 4k cars wouldn't have gone to such an early grave...

Still looking forward to DC going back to ATO...

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(1457567)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by randyo on Sat Dec 9 15:40:09 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by R30A on Fri Dec 8 21:35:10 2017.

From what I understand, auxiliary wayside signals have been removed from the 14 St line except for the portion between Bway Jct and Canarsie which is used by non CBTC trains off the J Line that need to use the car wash. Eventually, there will be no auxiliary wayside signals at all once CBTC is fully implemented system wide.

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(1457574)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by R30A on Sat Dec 9 17:04:29 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by randyo on Sat Dec 9 15:40:09 2017.

Enough wayside signals will remain for work trains to be operated in off hours. Enough signals will remain for Canarsie/Flushing CBTC equipped cars will be able to return to Coney Island or 207 as long as it isn't rush hour.

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(1457583)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Dec 9 18:46:40 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by sand box john on Thu Dec 7 22:26:37 2017.

Something is wrong when people cannot function at all with technology that once did not exist. Today, if the electricity goes out in a store or bank or office, it will probably close, even though all of those facilities could once function quite nicely without it. I am not sure that such a condition is progress.

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(1457729)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 10 15:46:36 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by R30A on Sat Dec 9 17:04:29 2017.

I recall hearing that the few auxiliary wayside signals on the 14 St Line had been removed N/O Bway Jct.

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(1457732)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 10 15:52:24 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Dec 9 18:46:40 2017.

I doníít know if anyone working today can still do it, but on the evening of the 1965 blackout when the lights went out and the cash registers stopped working in the A & P super market, the store manager grabbed a pencil and wrote and totaled the item prices down on the paper carry bag like an old time grocer.

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(1457734)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Dec 10 15:55:05 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Dec 9 18:46:40 2017.

I meant "without technology." Need to proofread more.

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(1457739)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 10 16:05:32 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Dec 9 18:46:40 2017.

Today, if the electricity goes out in a store or bank or office, it will probably close, even though all of those facilities could once function quite nicely without it.

It's quite hard to operate any of those without lights. It's been a long time since businesses had a window in every room so that they didn't need lights, and even then that wouldn't work after dark.


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(1457764)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 10 17:42:23 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 10 16:05:32 2017.

Anybody ever hear of candles?

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(1457777)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Dec 10 18:56:56 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by randyo on Sun Dec 10 17:42:23 2017.

If a chain, nah. If a one off and the owner there, you bet.

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(1457779)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 10 19:01:31 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by randyo on Sun Dec 10 17:42:23 2017.

It takes a lot of candles to make the stock visible.

Seriously, did any stores remain open in the 1965 blackout by candlelight?


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(1457793)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:41:42 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Dec 9 18:46:40 2017.

Do you realize that if the industrial revolution were reversed somehow and we went back to an agrarian society, billions of people would die. Technology and humanity have a symbiotic relationship and have had one for thousands of years.

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(1457794)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:44:04 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by randyo on Sun Dec 10 17:42:23 2017.

Candles should be banned.

Not really, but why do people think that a fire hazard is part of a blackout survival kit when they make lights that run on batteries? I really think there should be a campaign to discourage use of candle-based illumination.

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(1457795)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:44:58 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 10 19:01:31 2017.

Maybe before the sun went down.

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(1457796)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:45:59 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by randyo on Sun Dec 10 15:52:24 2017.

Useless. Except for small purchases, I'm not going to buy anything with cash.

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(1457798)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:48:52 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Dec 9 18:46:40 2017.

You're ignoring the fact that the vast majority of the time, a modern, computerized office is far more efficient. Since a blackout is a rare event, it doesn't make sense to do things with pens, paper and mechanical typewriters just to continue to function for something that's only going to happen every few years.

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(1457799)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 10 19:49:12 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:44:58 2017.

11/9/1965, at 5:27 PM (thank you Wikipedia).

No daylight time, so after sunset.



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(1457800)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:51:24 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 10 19:49:12 2017.

Excellent post. Some other SubChatters would have spent post after post speculating or trying to recollect instead of spending five seconds looking up the facts.

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(1457802)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 10 20:00:20 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:48:52 2017.

IAWTP. The most effective emergency item for an office to invest in would be a generator.

My building's heat didn't work in the post-Sandy blackout, though the hot water did. It would have been nice to have had a boiler with a pure gas pilot, but the cost would have been higher risk of CO poisoning over the years.




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(1457803)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Dec 10 20:12:45 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:41:42 2017.

Yes, technology has raised living standards for some, facilitated more widespread oppression for others. Meanwhile, even though we in theory grow enough food for the current population, we don't make much effort to actually feed everyone 3 square a day.

That said, I still believe being able to do simple math w/o electronics is useful. As to cash, yes!

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(1457804)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Dec 10 20:14:47 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:44:04 2017.

Electric candles for religious services??? I think not. In the rare instances of electrcal blackout, I use a combination of candles and the green glowing light stix.

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(1457805)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Dec 10 20:16:48 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 10 20:00:20 2017.

pilots were elctrified to save gas, not to prevent CO poisoning.

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(1457806)

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Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?

Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 10 20:19:31 2017, in response to Re: Queens Blvd to go CBTC?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 10 19:44:04 2017.

Not really, but why do people think that a fire hazard is part of a blackout survival kit when they make lights that run on batteries?

Where do I go to buy a light that lasts 12 hours?

In a blackout, a candle in the bathroom for middle of the night visits is very helpful.



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