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| (1367070) | |
Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Sep 16 14:11:19 2015 Saw this over at railroad.net this morning. The LIRR is planning to abandon the Montauk cutoff and the Main Line cutoff between MP 0.0 to MP 0.69. It's the little line that runs directly from Sunnyside Yard to the Montauk line.http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=115&t=125582 http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=160577 A link to the filing document iself: http://www.stb.dot.gov/FILINGS/all.nsf/d6ef3e0bc7fe3c6085256fe1004f61cb/f07398556cf6c7e885257ebd00664a4b/$FILE/239185.pdf |
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| (1367088) | |
Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Sep 16 17:43:38 2015, in response to Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Sep 16 14:11:19 2015. NY&A has built a new freaight/transload yard on the Newtown Creek just east of the LIC station, and will abandon its old yard adjacent to the Arch Street shops. This means that the Montauk Cutoff, that elevated freight line that you see passing over the main line.LIRR has in turn petitioned to abandon this track, but not alienate its property rights. It is looking for other uses for this land to prevent it from falling into decay or vandalism. They may wish to reinstall service a later date. ROAR |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Sep 17 22:12:29 2015, in response to Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Sep 16 14:11:19 2015. Still needs ICC approval, NO??? |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by nostalgia on Fri Sep 18 03:30:28 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Sep 17 22:12:29 2015. ICC was abolished decades ago. Replacement agency is STB, created in 1996. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 18 06:58:37 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by nostalgia on Fri Sep 18 03:30:28 2015. Can't see them having a problem with it. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Sep 18 07:23:14 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 18 06:58:37 2015. Check your prescription. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Sep 18 19:00:57 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by nostalgia on Fri Sep 18 03:30:28 2015. Thanks for the info. I did not know that |
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| (1367477) | |
Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by lirr42 on Sun Sep 20 20:10:29 2015, in response to Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Sep 16 14:11:19 2015. Is there another way into the Arch Street Shop area, other than the Montauk Cutoff? This week the MTA Board will vote on a $6.8m non-competitive miscellaneous service agreement (http://library.thelirrtoday.com/redir?resid=566715f85ae7e65c!66994&authkey=!AL4DJlmGxH2lsWY&ithint=file%2cpdf) for Bombardier to install PTC kits on Metro-North's M-7A fleet at the Arch Street Shop, so it's not like it can just be severed from the rest of the system until ESA is ready... |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Sep 20 21:41:19 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by lirr42 on Sun Sep 20 20:10:29 2015. Flatbed truck? |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Sep 20 23:51:05 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by lirr42 on Sun Sep 20 20:10:29 2015. Isn't there a way from within Sunnyside Yard? |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Sep 21 01:14:00 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Sep 20 23:51:05 2015. I suppose a solution would involve handing off cars to Amtrak and pulling them through Penn Station to Sunnyside Yard, where NY&A or LIRR would take care of the rest. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 21 10:23:43 2015, in response to Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Sep 16 14:11:19 2015. That would be a mistake IMO. A rare event happened back in 1981 that made the cutoff very useful. The Fremont secondary was out of service . The morning Fremont Jct train (OP 1 then) had 100 loads due for Long Island. Solution?? send it down the Amtrak main to Harold, pick up LIRR pilots, switch it over to the Montauk Cutoff & down to Fremont Jct. Problem solved! It would have been some sight seeing a long freight crossing the trestles over B'Way/Northern Blvd in Woodside. This went on for afew days. Too bad i was working then so I couldn't snap afew pics with my old Canon AE-1A rareity indeed, but its like knowing how to swim, you never know when you'll need it. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 21 12:53:44 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 21 10:23:43 2015. Why is it called the Fremont Secondary? Where is Fremont? |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by HART BUS on Mon Sep 21 16:46:49 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 21 12:53:44 2015. California ? |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Sep 21 16:58:18 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by HART BUS on Mon Sep 21 16:46:49 2015. no |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 21 19:05:18 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by lirr42 on Sun Sep 20 20:10:29 2015. How many years has it been that a train of any sort has been run on the Cutoff ? |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 21 19:05:59 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 21 12:53:44 2015. Freemont AKA Fresh Pond Jct. It was Freemont tower at the junction of the Connecting RR & the LIRR that controlled all the moves in the area then. Theres a book out there "The NY Connecting Railroad" Sub T "Long Island's other Railroad" Spells out its construction, steam, electric & diesel trains that kept the rails shinny. Its busy times back then & its hard times later on.A good & interesting read |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Sep 21 19:28:24 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 21 19:05:18 2015. When I was a Train Operator on the (7) line in 2013, I used to occasionally see something on there. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 21 19:39:39 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by G1Ravage on Mon Sep 21 19:28:24 2015. Yep...but mostly MOW trains. |
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| (1367583) | |
Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Sep 21 20:08:32 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 21 12:53:44 2015. It's now called 65th Street, between Otto Road and Shaler Avenue in Ridgewood. |
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| (1367584) | |
Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Sep 21 20:12:29 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Sep 21 20:08:32 2015. Oh, I forgot to add this. |
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| (1367618) | |
Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 22 07:39:07 2015, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 21 19:39:39 2015. How about an occasional EDP? |
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| (1443987) | |
Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jul 22 10:26:10 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Sep 21 20:12:29 2015. I never noticed the names, but as a kid, traveling along Queens Blvd with my family we saw these. That once plied the Bay Ridge Branch.
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jul 22 10:27:34 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Sep 21 20:12:29 2015. What a great source!Thanks |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jul 22 13:56:57 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jul 22 10:26:10 2017. I remember seeing the locos on the Bay Ridge branch the NH bought from the Virginian which I believe were classified as EF-4s. |
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| (1444090) | |
Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Jul 23 12:52:15 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by randyo on Sat Jul 22 13:56:57 2017. I never saw them, myself. I lived in south east Queens, so I rarely was in the neighborhood. |
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| (1446977) | |
Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by sloth on Sat Aug 19 12:04:59 2017, in response to Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Sep 16 14:11:19 2015. For those interested in such things, all references to the Montauk Cutoff were removed from the LIRR employee timetable today by general notice 3-22. |
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| (1447000) | |
Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Aug 19 14:25:30 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by sloth on Sat Aug 19 12:04:59 2017. Mr. Sloth: This items belong in the Book of Last Runs. Would you have the effective date of the GO? Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by sloth on Sun Aug 20 00:30:22 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Aug 19 14:25:30 2017. Yes, the effective date is Saturday 8/19. |
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| (1447079) | |
Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sun Aug 20 01:00:55 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by randyo on Sat Jul 22 13:56:57 2017. Yup. Originally built to pull long and heavy coal trains over the Appalachians. Apparently, they were very nearly overkill for the much flatter New Haven, and performed admirably well until Conrail retired them in the early 80s. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 20 08:40:32 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by sloth on Sun Aug 20 00:30:22 2017. Mr. Sloth: Thank you for that information. I am putting it into The Book of Last Runs with due credit for you. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 20 15:53:23 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by sloth on Sun Aug 20 00:30:22 2017. Sorry..didn't follow the thread much, so Im out of the loop.Cqn someone explain to me the value of Abandonment, compared to refurbishing and using it for Future service? |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Sun Aug 20 16:39:34 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 20 08:40:32 2017. Per Mr. Gregory Grice on the RAILROAD.NET forums:"As of today the Montauk Cutoff has no rails." |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Aug 21 10:00:06 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 20 15:53:23 2017. What are we talking about. NOT the Lower Montauk, but rather the Montauk Cutoff. That is (was) an elevated line connecting the Lower Montauk in sort of a loop so that it returns to the Mane Lion Eastbound.It was used the other way: to move fright from the Mane Lion to the Lower Montauk. But Fright no longer moves on the mane lion. If you abandon it, you must still pay taxes adn insurance on it. If you take it down it is neightr an asset nor a liability. Makes for cleaner bookeepping. Bookkeepers love clean books. They have to be clean before you burn them udder wise ewe will not know how much you can put in your pocket. ROAR |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Mon Aug 21 12:35:09 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by GojiMet86 on Sun Aug 20 16:39:34 2017. Does the cutoff have no possible necessary purpose now? In a heavily built up place like NYC where you basically can't run trains on ground level except in existing right of way, I have to wonder if it's really smart to rip up rails. The roads are full of trucks, it would be good to put some of it on rails. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:41:19 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Aug 21 12:35:09 2017. It comes off the Lower Montauk, which is no longer for LIRR use, and loops back east. I can't see any use for passenger service. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 20:05:04 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 21 17:41:19 2017. It would have been just the right way for trains from the LIRR Main Line to go to a Union Station, presuming tunnels from Bushwick westward. Same goes for those hypothetical New Haven Line trains that they're trying to squeeze into Penn Station without even finding the room yet.The government railroads keep slitting their own throats and then later want to eat. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Aug 22 02:37:36 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Aug 21 10:00:06 2017. Well,thanks. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 22 10:23:55 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 20:05:04 2017. Right of Way.... ALL of the land in that areas *IS* Right of way. The thing only went over active railroad tracks.I do not know where you propose to place this notional "Union Station", but from the mane lion (or from the Lower Montauk for that matter,) a simple left turn when it gets to LIC heads the train south with the next land fall on Avenue C in Manhattan. ROARING |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 11:05:54 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 22 10:23:55 2017. I do not know where you propose to place this notional "Union Station"Somewhere in the Houston Street vicinity. That way, it goes directly towards NJT's Hoboken Division. After using the Cutoff to reach the Lower Montauk, right turn in the vicinity of the Bushwick Branch. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by sloth on Tue Aug 22 11:36:34 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Aug 21 12:35:09 2017. Keep in mind it's less than a mile of (formerly) single track connecting Harold and Arch Street with the lightly used west end of the Lower Montauk. If you needed to route a light engine, work train, or equipment move between those points, you could still run it into LIC yard and change ends. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Aug 22 13:18:34 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Edwards! on Tue Aug 22 02:37:36 2017. 
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Aug 22 18:02:35 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 11:05:54 2017. Why would anyone want to ride the Lower Montauk to Houston Street or Hoboken ? |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 18:34:45 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Joe V on Tue Aug 22 18:02:35 2017. Why not Houston Street? Lots of subways meeting at the cross streets. Hoboken Terminal has no problem being right across from Houston Street as it is. The Bushwick Branch points in that direction right now. The neighborhoods there need a boost besides. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Aug 22 18:36:12 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Joe V on Tue Aug 22 18:02:35 2017. +10. It's a hot neighborhood, but not THAT hot. Plus, it would have to dig pretty deep for that transportation nexus, which would be where? 2nd Ave? Lafayette St? |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Aug 22 19:00:57 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Aug 22 13:18:34 2017. Thanks for the map, it makes the situation easier to understand.From what I was able to find, they're removing the rails but leaving the bridges intact (except over Newtown Creek, which will be permanently in the up position). Are they still sticking to that? Also, what will happen to the NY&A's old trainsload yard? |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 23 07:10:01 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 18:34:45 2017. Hoboken has PATH and Ferries to take them places meaningful. Houston Street is not it. "Needing a boost" does not make it a commuter destination. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 23 07:45:41 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Joe V on Tue Aug 22 18:02:35 2017. Plan of LION would have brought it in under the WTC. It would be a station not a terminal. LIRR trains would continue to New Jersery, NJT trains would continue on to Long Island. Perhaps LIRR could terminate at Newark Airport and NJT trains at Laguardia thus providing great airport service to downtown.The real reason for continuing across the rivers is because this notional station would have no room of layups, so get that consist out of here. ROAR |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Aug 23 08:07:08 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 23 07:45:41 2017. Lower Manhattan is of declining importance, with a fraction of the workforce it had 40 years ago. We are down to ONE Montague Service, and nothing out of Nassau St. I can't see justification of billions of dollars of new commuter rail tunneling to go through it. PATH to can get you to Newark Penn in 22 minutes. |
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Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 23 09:23:21 2017, in response to Re: Montauk Cut-Off Abandonment, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 22 18:34:45 2017. The neighborhoods there need a boost besides.Not any more. The neighborhood is crawling with construction cranes, and has been for quite a few years. And the only really versatile subway stop on Houston is Broadway-Lafayette. 2 Ave and Prince are essentially only served by one line each (yeah, I know about the W). |
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