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| Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor (1406435) | |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 27 13:16:10 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 27 10:19:54 2016. Also, only 3 out of the 4 tracks have 3rd railNot for the whole length. Removal is thanks to Metro-North, because the NY Central electric motors needed it on all tracks to Harmon. If they only did overhead on the two center tracks, there would be redundant electrical on 20 miles of one track Only twelve trains in each direction. And it'd be about 26 miles besides, never mind the extra 12 miles into Penn. Plus MNRR would then be able to use NH line equipment for the Poughkeepsie runs, eliminating the need for most of their dual mode equipment How many of those do you think Metro-North owns? No; those are allocated for the New Haven Line and cannot be permanently switched over to any other line. Besides, those are "dual mode" after a fashion anyhow and require more maintenance than the typical single-system EMU, so it'd be more economically feasible to extend third rail another forty miles out to Poughkeepsie, for the MTA (who extended third rail 32 or so miles from White Plains to Southeast over the same concerns). |
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| (1406566) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 27 13:29:25 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 27 10:49:09 2016. Electrifying down to Newport News and Norfolk would be phenomenalLess than half the trains going to Albany NY; a third, in fact. Phenomenal indeed. Richmond is definitely a contender for addition to the true "Northeast Corridor", especially now that they've increased service They average twelve trains a day in each direction too. If that. Even New Carrollton MD sees more Regionals. |
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| (1406568) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Aug 27 13:38:58 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 27 06:32:47 2016. The Acela locos are derivatives of the TGV.They're supposedly based on a paper design that Alstom had for an equivalent of the DB Class 101 for SNCF. Since SNCF had no need for such a locomotive, the project went nowhere until Alstom decided to join this project. If anything, they're just uprated Astride units... |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1406574) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 27 14:27:25 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 27 10:53:21 2016. The highway system is a fiscal disaster in and of itself. |
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| (1406576) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 27 15:00:11 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Aug 27 13:38:58 2016. The current Acela were built by BBD, not Alstom. |
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| (1406584) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Sat Aug 27 17:04:08 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 27 15:00:11 2016. The propulsion was derrived from the Astride, though, since Bombardier hadn't developed their own propulsion system by then. Actually, the current TRAXX stuff might have been ABB's design, too. The ALP-46 / Class 101 is basically an ABB design, IIRC. |
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| (1406587) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Aug 27 19:26:14 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 27 10:19:54 2016. Well, at Riverdale, at least, all 4 tracks have 3rd rail. |
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| (1406588) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 27 19:35:35 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by italianstallion on Sat Aug 27 19:26:14 2016. Any portion of all 4 tracks having 3rd rail is quite brief. It's visible on Google aerial view if one wants to make the effort. |
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| (1406592) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Aug 27 20:32:13 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Aug 26 23:52:47 2016. Then get down to Southern California and ride the new Talgos that are gonna be on the Surfliners. You know, since the bilevel crap California forced on the Midwest is an abject failure. If only Talgo had chosen their state of manufacture with greater care. |
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| (1406594) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Aug 27 20:39:32 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Alan Follett on Sat Aug 27 11:33:49 2016. Interesting web page.Thanks. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1406596) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Aug 27 20:42:02 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by WillD on Sat Aug 27 20:32:13 2016. Actually I will be in SLO in Sept. If they are in service, I might joyride to SB.. |
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| (1406600) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 27 22:45:51 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by pragmatist on Sat Aug 27 12:46:34 2016. I agree there, not optimistic but definitely on my wish list :).Also on my wish list would be an underground station on the correct side of the river in Albany with all electric trains. But I'm sure before that were to happen the politicians would be busy dealing with all the pigs in the air blocking the sunlight... |
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| (1406601) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 27 22:48:02 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 27 13:29:25 2016. If it were electrified that far, there'd be less of a need to turn trains at Washington DC. So there'd probably be more.The keystone has about 14 trains a day, and it's electrified... what's your point? |
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| (1406602) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 27 22:53:23 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 27 13:16:10 2016. More than 12 each direction. We have:1. LSL 2. Maple Leaf 3. Adirondack 4. Ethan Allen Exp 5 & 6: Empire Corridor to Niagara Falls And seven Empire Corridor to Albany Thirteen, ha! |
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| (1406610) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Aug 28 07:26:41 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Aug 27 09:25:41 2016. Photos from outbound parking lot, yesterdayExton-inbound Exton-inbound 2 |
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| (1406620) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 28 09:34:44 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Aug 27 09:25:41 2016. $23.4 million and won't be finished until 2018.Well, if they really want "Acela" service between Exton and New York, why not rebuild the Trenton Cutoff for that purpose? Split the service between there and Philly instead of making one service, and send the Philly trains to Suburban Station. |
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| (1406637) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 28 12:26:08 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 28 09:34:44 2016. Not enough market to justify it. |
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| (1406669) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Sun Aug 28 19:11:52 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 27 12:53:55 2016. The LRC wasn't that light, either. Budd built EMUs that were lighter than the unpowered LRC coaches... |
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| (1406671) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 28 19:37:18 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by nasadowsk on Sun Aug 28 19:11:52 2016. The MTA M-1 was 48 tons. Wouldn't be legal today. It took 8 more tons of FRA bullshit to make it into the M-3. The M-7 is a total pig at 67 tons. (The 65' MP54 was 65 tons). |
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| (1406674) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 28 19:57:34 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 28 19:37:18 2016. The MTA M-1 was 48 tons. Wouldn't be legal todayThey were testing the "alternative crashworthiness" technology on M1s, weren't they? |
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| (1406675) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 28 19:58:13 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by nasadowsk on Sun Aug 28 19:11:52 2016. The LRC wasn't that light, eitherSeems like the empty weight is hard to find. |
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| (1406677) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Sun Aug 28 20:36:10 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 28 19:37:18 2016. The MTA M-1 was 48 tons. Wouldn't be legal today. It took 8 more tons of FRA bullshit to make it into the M-3. The M-7 is a total pig at 67 tons. (The 65' MP54 was 65 tons).Nobody's ever been able to list: 1) What specifically about the M-1 carbody wasn't legal anymore. 2) What was changed on the M-3 carbody. 3) What the weight breakdown of the various components on the three was. On the last point - the Pioneer III MUs and the Silverliner IIs had the exact same car body (this is per Budd's own documentation), but a 11,000 lb weight difference overall. AFAIK, the M-3 had most of its weight gain in the trucks and traction motors and the blowers and ductwork associated with the uprated TMs. The weight:seat of the M-7 makes their weight gain even more obscene - they hold fewer passengers than the M-1s and 3s. |
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| (1406678) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Sun Aug 28 20:41:31 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 28 19:58:13 2016. Wackypedia says the locos were 'between 250,000 and 256,000lbs' and the cars were on the order 105,000 lbs.Budd set the low point for n 80 foot unpowered car at around 52,000lbs, the same body with propulsion at 89,000lbs. IIRC, the first Comets were around 72,000lbs. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 28 21:31:18 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by nasadowsk on Sun Aug 28 20:41:31 2016. The extra weight was from the active-tilt system, maybe? X2000 passenger cars apparently weigh 104,000 lbs, by comparison. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Jace on Mon Aug 29 11:20:52 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 27 15:00:11 2016. It was a joint project - the cars were an Alstom design. A purchase of new cars from Alstom was considered but the price came in way too high. |
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| (1406722) | |
Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Jace on Mon Aug 29 11:29:27 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by nasadowsk on Sat Aug 27 09:17:35 2016. Trucks with fabricated side frames still often have a bunch of castings simply because the more castings you have, the cheaper the truck. The castings all come in from overseas (China, Slovenia...). |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Buddsilverliner269 on Mon Aug 29 11:51:03 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 27 15:00:11 2016. Wrong, the current acela was built by ABC, or Alstom Bombardier Consortium. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Aug 29 15:19:25 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Alan Follett on Sat Aug 27 11:33:49 2016. That is only those wrecked since the publication of Amtrak by the numbers in 2011. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Aug 29 15:56:27 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 27 05:49:38 2016. Lets be honest about the market for train service in NYS.If you have any money you own a car and it is more convient to drive If you are low on money you are going to take the bus. Just rode the TGV from Paris to Reims. I love trains but would never take train in NYS upstate. You need a car to go anywhere after the trip anyway |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Aug 29 16:06:32 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 27 22:45:51 2016. No customers and never will be customers for the service. In europe there is high speed trains but the discount airlines are killing it taking market shareIn Italy, I rode around on train for two weeks last spring. Most people opt for the afordable regional trains over the expensive high speed trains. Plus many people opt to fly city to city. In the US check the lines for the bus to boston, philly and DC. Those riders speak with thier pocketbooks. Amtrak would need to seriously lower the ticket price . I LOVE TRAINS. In the past year I dragged my wife to ride the train everywhere we travel (most of the time as a joy ride) the list includes TGV high speed paris Paris metro RER Prague Metro Ukrane Metro London Underground Munich U-bon Naples metro line 1 and 2 Napes Finicular Naples - Sorrento (Circumvesuvian Train) Bangkok metro and skytrain Milan Metro High speed rail in the US outside Northest is not viable and never will be. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Aug 29 16:23:54 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Aug 29 16:06:32 2016. Albany-NYC already has the customers. They're just:1. On Megabus and Chinatown buses, to a lesser extent Greyhound 2. Selling out the existing trains at record rates (ALB is the 9th busiest station in the US). 3. Driving to park and rides in Metro North territory or Ramsey Rt 17. The thing is with higher speed trains it actually costs less to run the service. If you can get a train to Albany from NYC in 1.5 hours instead of 2.5 hours, you can run hourly service with four trainsets / crews. Operating costs actually go *down*. If they kept fares at the current rate but beefed up the speed, all of those other modes would lose favor, and they would make money in volume. And it will definitely be viable in the US once air travel becomes prohibitively expensive. While ground transportation can play around to become more energy efficient and shift the method of power generation, airlines are at the mercy of burning kerosene. Batteries add too much weight. So unless we go to helium airships, high speed intercity travel will *need* to be on the ground in the future. Of course as a society we've gotten far more short sighted, and no one will start this until it's too late... |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Aug 29 17:01:44 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Aug 29 15:56:27 2016. If you build it, then they will come. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Aug 29 17:22:21 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Aug 29 15:56:27 2016. You need local transportation when you get off the TGV too. Many dedicated TGV stops are in the outskirts if town. The French solved this not only by running bus lines from the TGV stations, but by also having rental car lots there as well, just like an airport. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Aug 29 17:37:34 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by nasadowsk on Sun Aug 28 20:36:10 2016. The end bulkheads were made thicker and heavier. They also had air vent chutes - don't know what that weighed. If the M-1's were still around, you could tell the difference in the framing inside around the end door.I believe Dutchrailnut once said the M-3 could have 1.2 million pounds of crash worthiness even though they did not have to in 1985. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Aug 29 18:16:58 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Aug 27 08:02:21 2016. These new cars will not directly replace Amfleet cars. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Aug 29 18:26:07 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Aug 29 15:56:27 2016. NY to Albany does pretty well against the car, and carries pretty good passenger loads. As you go further, the picture changes quickly. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 29 20:00:04 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Aug 29 16:23:54 2016. The thing is with higher speed trains it actually costs less to run the service. If you can get a train to Albany from NYC in 1.5 hours instead of 2.5 hours, you can run hourly service with four trainsets / crews. Operating costs actually go *down*Some fuzzy math there. How are you going to get average speed up to 94 mph when they can't even get it that high on the NEC? There is no way in heck that Metro-North is going to allow upgrades to Class 8 track and all the signaling necessary for that, never mind the electrification issues. And the more heat energy you expend, the higher costs go, not lower. Track and trains wear out faster. Albany is not that important of a destination for that level of service. If it were, they'd even go so far as to rebuild Union Station. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 20:09:14 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Aug 29 16:23:54 2016. airlines are at the mercy of burning kerosene.How about burning hydrogen? :) |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Aug 29 20:19:52 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 20:09:14 2016. That gets you airliner that combines the size of an Air Force transport, the capacity of a regional jet, and the range of a powered parachute. The volumetric specific energy is absolutely terrible. |
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Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Aug 29 20:33:56 2016, in response to Re: Biden: $2.45B loan for Amtrak upgrades in Northeast Corridor, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 29 20:00:04 2016. The typical line of thinking on upgraded NYS service has been along the lines of 2-4-6 NYP-SYR-BUF 1.5 hrs would take way more effort and investment than you will ever see. I can fly NYC to Syr or BUF at a reasonable price on a real plane, no such service to Albany exists.What percentage of the traffic along a given route can you reasonably expect to carry, and to what degree can you improve on that percentage at a reasonable cost is possibly more important than a slight lowering in operating costs. If people want to be somewhere at a certain time, the ability to squeeze higher utilization out of equipment and labor might not mean that much, because it might just result in being less flexible when there are problems. |
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